Wife & I drove a Hyundai Palisade yesterday

[351cid]

We're on vacation & sometimes we do "car shopping" while we're both together. 

 

After driving the Palisade we were both left with the same impression: If Ford doesn't get their shit together & step up quality; they're going to be in trouble with the Explorer.

 

Palisade bad: that nose, in our opinion, is something that only a mother could love. 98% of the exterior design is pleasing, but that nose! The power is "sufficient" with the 3.8 & 8 speed, but the wife has gotten accustomed to the power of EcoBoost.

 

The good: interior design was pleasing to the wife. The screen didn't look like an afterthought & was blended into the dash. Price point was a MAJOR advantage. The one we drove had a sticker of just under $40k (with leather). We didn't see an Explorer under $48. Closest sticker on a Ford was the Edge. Warranty. Hyundai kicks Ford's ass 9 ways to Sunday with their 10/100 warranty on powertrain & 5/60 bumper to bumper.  With Ford's quality issues now, I'd be nervous about not purchasing an extended warranty...which makes the Explorer just that much more expensive. There were a bunch of little things that seemed absent from the Explorer as well.

 

Hackett & Co have cheapened the build quality & jacked the price on all their vehicles. Why would someone buy the Explorer over the Hyundai?

 

After leaving the Hyundai dealership,  my wife looked at me & said: "This will likely be my next vehicle. You realize, except for the 70 Beetle we had, this will be the first time in my life that my car wasn't a Ford product? ". 

 

 

 

 

[T-dubz]

The front looks a bit better if you get it in white.

My biggest complaint with the palisade and Hyundai’s in general is the use of random chrome strips everywhere. Get rid of the chrome around the windows and it would look much better.

[351cid]

The one we drive was slate blue & the chrome didn't stick out to me as bad.

 

The other issue my wife mentioned was that she's not crazy about silver & white...and hates black. The other colors were so dark that they look black until you get an angle on them. The slate even looked that way..and burgundy is what she really likes. Their burgundy was way too dark. She prefers a gold color, but Hyundai doesn't have any such animal.

[akirby]

You have to keep in mind that right now Palisade and Telluride are selling for MSRP or even higher, so a $40K sticker is $40K.   That $48K Explorer has a street price of $42K after discounts and rebates - maybe even a bit lower.    Neither is right or wrong just a different way of pricing and you can't argue the Koreans are bringing a lot of value and some really good design.  Whether Ford needs to make changes to Explorer will become evident over the next few months.   They might be perfectly happy with the sales volume and profit margin depending on what Aviator is doing.   It will be interesting to see what happens with Telluride once the Genesis SUV comes out.   Until now they haven't had a luxury crossover to compete with.

[LSchicago]

My wife bought a Palisade in July, some dealers were wanting $8,000 Markup on them. We got $1,000 off MSRP even though very few dealers had any, or more than 2. We paid $39K for it. After 6 months, we are very happy with it. Ford has better engine options, but the Hyundai is a great quality vehicle at a very reasonable price. Roomiest 3rd row in the segment. We got used to the nose pretty quickly. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by LSchicago

[blwnsmoke]

I bought my ST because I wanted a performance vehicle.  The ST has an insane amount of power and incredible cornering with a fantastic upgraded performance brake package.  Nothing compares to it unless you look at a DodgeDurango SRT and even with that said, it's a Dodge.

 

If it wasn't for the ST trim, we probably wouldn't have gone with an Explorer.  Also with a $60k sticker, we paid $52,200 for it.  With rebates and dealer discounts, I've seen people getting them for $50k with the same sticker now, even one quoted OTD with a $49,xxx price tag.

 

The ST for me is an incredible trim and I love just about everything about it overall.  So yeah.. that's what sold me from the get go on it.  

[Willwll313wll]

Can anyone explain why there's such a high price, only to be marked down by dealers? Why not just give it an market price MSRP?

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, Willwll313wll said:

Can anyone explain why there's such a high price, only to be marked down by dealers? Why not just give it an market price MSRP?

 

Customers for most Ford vehicles have been conditioned to expect huge sales incentives. If Ford simply lowered the MSRP and they along with dealerships lowered or eliminated incentives too, prospective customers wouldn't feel they were getting a "deal", even though the final price in the end was the same or lower.

 

This marketing tactic is similar to what many department stores and apparel retailers use.

Edited February 5, 2020 by rperez817

[probowler]

10 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Customers for most Ford vehicles have been conditioned to expect huge sales incentives. If Ford simply lowered the MSRP and they along with dealerships lowered or eliminated incentives too, prospective customers wouldn't feel they were getting a "deal", even though the final price in the end was the same or lower.

 

This marketing tactic is similar to what many department stores and apparel retailers use.

I guess that's a good strategy for maintaining existing and past customers, but It worries me that they might be turning off potential new buyers who see that high MSRP which is outside their price range, and they never even make it to the dealer to get to the dealing stage.

It doesn't seem like a good strategy toward increasing sales IMO.

Edited February 5, 2020 by probowler

[Willwll313wll]

5 hours ago, probowler said:

I guess that's a good strategy for maintaining existing and past customers, but It worries me that they might be turning off potential new buyers who see that high MSRP which is outside their price range, and they never even make it to the dealer to get to the dealing stage.

It doesn't seem like a good strategy toward increasing sales IMO.

I agree... For example, not knowing about deals and incentitives, if I were in the market, I wouldn't even go test a new explorer because in my mind I already feel I would have to pay an extra 10k to get similarly equipped Tulleride. And what about the people (like me) who do comparative build&price online before they even make it to the dealership and see any type of marked down pricing. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Willwll313wll

[akirby]

3 hours ago, Willwll313wll said:

I agree... For example, not knowing about deals and incentitives, if I were in the market, I wouldn't even go test a new explorer because in my mind I already feel I would have to pay an extra 10k to get similarly equipped Tulleride. And what about the people (like me) who do comparative build&price online before they even make it to the dealership and see any type of marked down pricing. 

 

Except almost everyone knows you never pay MSRP for a vehicle unless it's something special/short supply.  

 

It hasn't hurt F150 sales.  XLTs are routinely $8K - $10K below MSRP.

 

I personally don't like it, but that's what the market expects to a certain degree.

 

In this case I think Ford is simply testing the waters to see how many they can sell at what price.  I expect adjustments for the 2021 models (if needed).

[kyle]

On 2/4/2020 at 8:18 AM, T-dubz said:

The front looks a bit better if you get it in white.

My biggest complaint with the palisade and Hyundai’s in general is the use of random chrome strips everywhere. Get rid of the chrome around the windows and it would look much better.

 

 

Well if that is your biggest gripe....lol....

[Patroy]

I  cannot get past the front wheel drive platform and subsequent torque steer.

 

 

[tbone]

23 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Customers for most Ford vehicles have been conditioned to expect huge sales incentives. If Ford simply lowered the MSRP and they along with dealerships lowered or eliminated incentives too, prospective customers wouldn't feel they were getting a "deal", even though the final price in the end was the same or lower.

 

This marketing tactic is similar to what many department stores and apparel retailers use.

I would argue this was Hyundai/Kia’s strategy as well, at least around here, until their new SUV duo came along. It will be interesting to see how they proceed from here. 

[Willwll313wll]

16 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Except almost everyone knows you never pay MSRP for a vehicle unless it's something special/short supply.  

 

It hasn't hurt F150 sales.  XLTs are routinely $8K - $10K below MSRP.

 

I personally don't like it, but that's what the market expects to a certain degree.

 

In this case I think Ford is simply testing the waters to see how many they can sell at what price.  I expect adjustments for the 2021 models (if needed).

I've never bought a car brand new off the lot so maybe I don't know. Of course everyone knows you can negotiate a price when purchasing a car but there's a big difference in negotiating a price and just expecting to get almost 10k off a vehicle just because you think the automaker has it overpriced... 

[akirby]

7 hours ago, Willwll313wll said:

I've never bought a car brand new off the lot so maybe I don't know. Of course everyone knows you can negotiate a price when purchasing a car but there's a big difference in negotiating a price and just expecting to get almost 10k off a vehicle just because you think the automaker has it overpriced... 

 

There will be some casual browsers who only look at the window sticker or base MSRP but most serious buyers will either use the ford build and price or visit the dealer website or visit the dealer and talk to a salesperson and all those options show the incentives.  And most buyers today expect some type of rebate.

 

As I said I don’t particularly like it but it’s not a death sentence either.

[Kev-Mo]

At the end of the day, Ford can never go 'toe to toe' with Hyundai/Kia.  The Korean brands have a huge advantage in the form of subsidies from the homeland; either directly or in vast tax reductions from their repatriated earnings.  Ford and GM need to find other ways to appeal to buyers, but it won't be a 'feature for price' game that Ford and GM can never win.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Kev-Mo
spelling

[Patroy]

1 hour ago, Kev-Mo said:

At the end of the day, Ford can never go 'toe to toe' with Hyundai/Kia.  The Korean brands have a hughe advantage in the form of subsidies from the homeland; either directly or in vast tax reductions from their repatriated earnings.  Ford and GM need to find other ways to appeal to buyers, but it won't be a 'feature for price' game that Ford and GM can never win.

They also do not have unions. We all know what that entails. The uaw puts a real handicap on domestic brands.

[akirby]

7 minutes ago, Patroy said:

They also do not have unions. We all know what that entails. The uaw puts a real handicap on domestic brands.

Not that much difference since tiered wages were accepted.

[fuzzymoomoo]

14 minutes ago, Patroy said:

They also do not have unions. We all know what that entails. The uaw puts a real handicap on domestic brands.

[Kev-Mo]

1 hour ago, Patroy said:

They also do not have unions. We all know what that entails. The uaw puts a real handicap on domestic brands.

In my humble opinion, that is an old way of thinking and no longer, or even if ever relevant.  Airline Pilots, School Teachers, and Professional Sports are unionized and nobody seems to have a problem with them causing a 'handicap' in their markets, and the work they perform.  Never heard anyone say;  "...I didn't choose Delta Airlines to fly today because the American Pilots are unionized and they don't work as hard or produce as efficiently as a pilot from Foreign Airlines..." Or;  "...I didn't watch my favorite Football team because the players union puts a real handicap on the game so I'll switch to the Korean Football League..." (See how absurd that sounds?)

 

Today's margins are affected far more by globalization, and what foreign companies can get away with by immediately repatriating their earnings abroad.  Nobody knows what Hyundai actually pays as a corporate tax rate in Korea.  It could be minimal or even zero if they struck a deal with the Korean government saying "we'll grab more and more US market share with the advantage, and bring back more and more profits down the road for Korea".   Same for Samsung and LG.  Japanese playbook full of stuff like that. When Asian companies make gobs of money their countrymen and women don't scream "...greedy corporation!", they are elevated to royalty!

Edited February 6, 2020 by Kev-Mo

[Patroy]

Kia pays 16 per hour less for each hour of labor than does Ford. Add in legacy costs and benefits and it's fairly evident there is an expense difference .....at least as of a few years ago.

Interesting read;

https://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/29/foreign-domestic-automakers-wage-gap/

[351cid]

10 hours ago, Kev-Mo said:

At the end of the day, Ford can never go 'toe to toe' with Hyundai/Kia.  The Korean brands have a huge advantage in the form of subsidies from the homeland; either directly or in vast tax reductions from their repatriated earnings.  Ford and GM need to find other ways to appeal to buyers, but it won't be a 'feature for price' game that Ford and GM can never win.

I know I sound like a broken record, but if Ford wants higher transaction prices, folks need to feel like they're getting their moneys worth. Quality! 

 

This whole powershift tranny, porous block, door latch, etc crap has to be remedied. These sorts of things should not be happening. I realize all cars have their issues & quirks, but Ford has raped the quality to fund pie in the sky autonomous cars & electrification. If their reputation is damaged now, how will they sell future products even if they're the best on the market?

 

My family has pretty much been soured on the Ford brand of late. Family gatherings used to look like someone opened a used Ford car lot at my mother's house. No one has replaced their Ford with  a Ford since 2016. The common comment is " we just couldn't take a chance on Ford's lack of attention to quality ".

[CKNSLS]

On 2/6/2020 at 7:57 AM, Kev-Mo said:

At the end of the day, Ford can never go 'toe to toe' with Hyundai/Kia.  The Korean brands have a huge advantage in the form of subsidies from the homeland; either directly or in vast tax reductions from their repatriated earnings.  Ford and GM need to find other ways to appeal to buyers, but it won't be a 'feature for price' game that Ford and GM can never win.

 

 

This is the argument that's always used-and no one on here has provided proof of this. 

[sullynd]

Sat in a Palisade and Telluride yesterday at the Chicago Autoshow. I prefer the look of the Pallisade, but the interior of the Telluride is significantly nicer.