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6 hours ago, LSchicago said:

A lot of fleets want a simple base engine. They don't want the increased cost of maintenance that a 2.7 would bring over the 3.3, even if the 2.7 was free.

 

The maintenance costs of the 3.3 and 2.7 will be virtually the same. 

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7 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

 

The maintenance costs of the 3.3 and 2.7 will be virtually the same. 


technically that is true, but the 2.7L is more complex, so would have (however so small) higher chance of failure. 
 

the chances of seeing those problems go up when your dealing with a fleet of 25-50-100 vehicles vs the single one sitting in your driveway. 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:


technically that is true, but the 2.7L is more complex, so would have (however so small) higher chance of failure. 
 

the chances of seeing those problems go up when your dealing with a fleet of 25-50-100 vehicles vs the single one sitting in your driveway. 

Correct but the overwhelming majority of F150 fleet sales are EB V6/5.0 V8,

so as others have said the 3.3s are being bought by (fleet) buyers who want

basically lowest price.

 

Quick math, average monthly sales of F150 is about 50,000 and of that,

Fleet is ~ 14,000 sales, ~12,000 of these are EB V6 & 5.0 V8

3.3 is ~ 2,000 sales, a tiny fraction of monthly fleet sales but just received 10R80 for 2021, 6R80 stock now exhausted?

3.0 TD was ~ 2,000 sales but at this point who really cares unless it gains upgrades to match 3.0  Duramax.

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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15 hours ago, jpd80 said:

On the contrary, most fleet buyers are shunning the 3.3 for the other engines,

it seems to be a small niche of price sensitive buyers.

If I were to buy a fleet, they'd all be 5.0's.

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8 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

 

The maintenance costs of the 3.3 and 2.7 will be virtually the same. 

Average cost over a 200K mile fleet life will be higher on the EB.

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29 minutes ago, LSchicago said:

Average cost over a 200K mile fleet life will be higher on the EB.


Based on what?

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Based on the fact that turbo engine are always more issues over time. I've heard of a lot of cases of turbo failures on the 2.7's.

 

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9 minutes ago, LSchicago said:

Based on the fact that turbo engine are always more issues over time. I've heard of a lot of cases of turbo failures on the 2.7's.

 

 

I don’t have any data, but I’d bet the failure rate is a very small percentage of total engines. The 2.7 is slightly more fuel efficient than the 3.3 - 1 mpg better according to the EPA ratings.

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22 minutes ago, LSchicago said:

Based on the fact that turbo engine are always more issues over time. I've heard of a lot of cases of turbo failures on the 2.7's.

 

 

Funny, you never hear folks complain about turbo diesels having more issues and ecoboosts are built for turbocharging just like turbo diesels.   Actual turbo failures are pretty rare considering the number of ecoboosts on the road.  

 

And I seem to remember a fairly serious issue with the coyote 5.0L recently so NA engines are not immune to flaws either.   I think with the exception of a few design flaws all modern engines are virtually bulletproof with good maintenance.

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58 minutes ago, akirby said:

And I seem to remember a fairly serious issue with the coyote 5.0L recently so NA engines are not immune to flaws either.   I think with the exception of a few design flaws all modern engines are virtually bulletproof with good maintenance.

 

Think it was valvetrain tick

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I don't think there is any significant difference in maintenance costs between 2.7EB or 3.3 or 5.0 over 200k miles - if that was the case, F-150 EB or V8 owners from the past decade would be up in roar over the expenses and that is simply not the case. The reason fleets (especially municipal) opt for a 3.3 is mainly acquisition costs. They buy them cheap and keep them for a long time. 

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Think it was valvetrain tick


There were some that had some catastrophic failures because of it, especially on the rear-most cylinders 

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On 6/27/2020 at 8:12 PM, akirby said:


I thought we were talking about F-150 though.

I guess I was just saying that I like an actual lever on the column or console that you shift in a truck versus buttons or dials. I was trying to say I'm glad that Ford still does it that way versus companies that have quit it.

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1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said:

I guess I was just saying that I like an actual lever on the column or console that you shift in a truck versus buttons or dials. I was trying to say I'm glad that Ford still does it that way versus companies that have quit it.


I guess I was used to the column vs console debate and wasn’t thinking about the dial shift or push buttons. 

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Posted (edited)

Ford knows what it's truck buyers like, and obviously still prefer the folding T-Bar shifter over a rotary knob.

I think it's a nice touch and a novel solution that  breaks people'sperception of the shifter as a solid rod.

An " I thought that wasn't possible" moment, does this take the air out of competition just using a rotary knob?

Edited by jpd80

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9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford knows what it's truck buyers like, and obviously still prefer the folding T-Bar shifter over a rotary knob.

I think it's a nice touch and a novel solution that  breaks people'sperception of the shifter as a solid rod.

An " I thought that wasn't possible" moment, does this take the air out of competition just using a rotary knob?

 

Another way of looking at it is that might slowly convince people to move to something different as time goes on too. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Another way of looking at it is that might slowly convince people to move to something different as time goes on too. 

That would make sense if Ford offered the rotary shifter as an option, the fact that it developed a folding shifter instead

kinda says to me that their customer base probably rejected it in research clinics. High series buyers may be different though.....

Edited by jpd80

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10 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford knows what it's truck buyers like, and obviously still prefer the folding T-Bar shifter over a rotary knob.

I think it's a nice touch and a novel solution that  breaks people'sperception of the shifter as a solid rod.

An " I thought that wasn't possible" moment, does this take the air out of competition just using a rotary knob?

Those are the little things that Ford always gets right. They are good at blending a few traditional things in that customers appreciate or brings back just a little nostalgia for a simpler time when all transmissions used a lever for shifting. It just makes it feel a little more truck-like and people like that. Every other manufacturer is getting rid of column and floor shifters so this is just a little detail that sets Ford apart. I think that's a good thing.

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11 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford knows what it's truck buyers like, and obviously still prefer the folding T-Bar shifter over a rotary knob.

 

Yes sir jpd80. Ford's emphasis on catering to existing owners of their products is smart business. The loyalists are Ford's best customers.

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir jpd80. Ford's emphasis on catering to existing owners of their products is smart business. The loyalists are Ford's best customers.

 

Well, there are millions of Ford trucks on the road. So why piss them off by copying Ram or Chevy. Ford knows what their customers want and need and gives it go them. The 2021 F-150 is a homerun as the competition will scramble to catch up again.

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Ford move away from column shift on all high trim level trucks in the mid 90s and it was one of the first one to do it. So Ford clearly had anticipated the trend in 2000s that buyers of luxury trucks viewed console shifter as some sort of status symbol. I don't pretend to know what buyers of luxury trucks in the 2020s will think but I'm going to give Ford the benefit of the doubt. The nailed so many trends in trucks buyers preference over the last 1.5 decades, it's hard to argue that Ford didn't do its homework on every little details of F-150.

 

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Ford move away from column shift on all high trim level trucks in the mid 90s and it was one of the first one to do it. So Ford clearly had anticipated the trend in 2000s that buyers of luxury trucks viewed console shifter as some sort of status symbol. I don't pretend to know what buyers of luxury trucks in the 2020s will think but I'm going to give Ford the benefit of the doubt. The nailed so many trends in trucks buyers preference over the last 1.5 decades, it's hard to argue that Ford didn't do its homework on every little details of F-150.

 

 

FYI, the first Ford truck without a column shift was the 2004 F150.

 

I thought I wanted the console shift.  But the flexibility of having 4 cup holders lots of room in the console cured me of that.

Edited by fordmantpw

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Fleets aren't keeping a F-150 for 200k miles. 

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10 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

FYI, the first Ford truck without a column shift was the 2004 F150.

My grandpa's '51 F1 would beg to differ, as would the '37 my dad used to own. ;)

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7 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

My grandpa's '51 F1 would beg to differ, as would the '37 my dad used to own. ;)

 

I guess I should have specified modern-day automatic pickup truck without a column shift. :)

 

OK, it's time for a little edumacating for me.  I need more details on these trucks.

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