Jump to content

None






blwnsmoke

California shakes up auto industry, says all vans and trucks must be electric by 2024

Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

Europe is moving mostly at the same timetable. China is targeting 2050.

 

It's going to happen. Don't be a Luddite.


It's not a matter of being a Luddite, it's an issue of improperly allocating resources. How in the hell does the California government think they're magically going to be able to keep up with this extra electrical demand when they can't even do it now and their problems are getting worse with no viable plan to fix it?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It's not a matter of being a Luddite, it's an issue of improperly allocating resources. How in the hell does the California government think they're magically going to be able to keep up with this extra electrical demand when they can't even do it now and their problems are getting worse with no viable plan to fix it?  

 

This is a very valid question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, grbeck said:

The state that can't generate enough electricity for home use is going to mandate that new vehicles use electricity. That makes sense. Or is the latter designed as a distraction from the former...?

 

It's California - they don't need to make sense.

 

40 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Not to mention that increased power generation is going to most likely cause other issues-since renewables aren't going to be able to make the same amount of power. 

 

All your doing is making it a single point of failure at this point. 

 

Um.  We already discussed that earlier - rainbows and unicorn farts.

 

40 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

Europe is moving mostly at the same timetable. China is targeting 2050.

 

It's going to happen. Don't be a Luddite.

 

I don't think any of us don't think it'll happen, or necessarily have a problem with it.  The problem is the timetable and the realities of that.  And not only that, the bigger problem is perhaps the infrastructure for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

Europe is moving mostly at the same timetable. China is targeting 2050.

 

It's going to happen. Don't be a Luddite.

 

Luddite? No, I'd say more a realist.

 

2035 is basically 14 years away but for arguments sake, lets say 15. Let's break this up in 5 year chunks. Now the population for California has been continually increasing and at this point is about 40 million but we'll say 45 million in 2035. 

 

The current state of California is that they do not have enough power in the summer months, hence the rolling blackouts.  This is for a multitude of reasons. Now if you increase the population and also increase demand do you think they will have enough energy resources built in 5 years? Not likely, as California has got to this situation because they have neglected building efficient green power for a while in an effort to shut down polluting plants. How about 10 years?  If demand was static, I think they could probably be fine in 10 years for current demand. However demand is not static. Add another 5 years and you are at 2035. I don't have much faith it will happen. This is just looking at infrastructure and totally ignoring the consumer side of things. 

 

It's a great talking point and goal to have. However, without a well laid out plan on how to get there it's merely hot air coming out of a politicians mouth. 

 

Edit: Looking at the posts above, it looks most of us are on the same page on why this isn't feasible.

Edited by jcartwright99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

However, without a well laid out plan on how to get there it's merely hot air coming out of a politicians mouth. 


Gavin Newsom is the master of that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/27/2020 at 9:01 PM, 7Mary3 said:

Can you imagine a 4X4 crew cab dually with 1,000 H.P. and 1000 ft. lbs. of torque, No DEF, SCR, EGR, doesn't need a 10 speed transmission, frequent oil changes, or fuel filter changes, has a decent range, can be 'refueled' anywhere including your own home, and could go 500,000 miles with little maintenance or repairs?  Oh yeah, and is cheaper to operate than an F-150.  Guess what- it's possible!    

The only problem is that most people are not going to want to spend an extra $15-$20K up front for the truck. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

Europe is moving mostly at the same timetable. China is targeting 2050.

 

It's going to happen. Don't be a Luddite.

You forgot about one important element: the big oil companies which are probably not going to sit back and watch their business evaporate without a fight. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just another worthless POS politician trying to make a name for himself.  2035 is a long way away. By that time, technology such as carbon capture may be viable rendering ECE engines "Zero Emissions."  There is more than one way to skin a cat and putting all the eggs in the EV basket is akin to automakers putting all their eggs in Diesel engines in the late 1970s/early 1980s.  We see how that worked out for passenger cars.

 

Chances are this mandate will be dragged in the court, lobbyists will grease the right palms, and a magic compromise will be reached the way it always has. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/28/2020 at 1:08 PM, rperez817 said:

 

Solution is simple. Have EPA, NHTSA, and other federal government bodies involved in air pollution and GHG regulations adopt the CARB ZEV standards for passenger cars & light trucks and for commercial trucks and vans in all 50 states.

 

This approach has been applied before. For example, the current EPA Tier 3 standards for criteria pollutants match that of CARB LEV III. So automakers can use one set of standards for the whole U.S.

No state within a republic should have the power to dictate to the rest of the country how business will be run.  If anything, the California's waivers that allowed CARB to form should be stripped by the EPA.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Controlling pollution in ones state that impacts the health and well being of its citizenry

should be under the preview of that state.  As someone who lives downwind of the air pollution from across the country, I am all for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Footballfan said:

No state within a republic should have the power to dictate to the rest of the country how business will be run.  If anything, the California's waivers that allowed CARB to form should be stripped by the EPA.   

 

Section 177 of the 1977 Clean Air Act allows other states to adopt CARB standards for LEV and ZEV. 14 states plus District of Columbia currently do for LEV, and 10 of those do for ZEV.

 

The LEV regulations are now harmonized between the U.S. federal government and CARB. ZEV regulations including bans on the sale of new gasoline and diesel powered motor vehicles are not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Footballfan said:

You forgot about one important element: the big oil companies which are probably not going to sit back and watch their business evaporate without a fight. 

 

Big oil companies have made investments to transition to clean energy and away from fossil fuels. For example, Chevron has been one of the investors in ChargePoint, an EV charging network company that announced yesterday they're going public via a reverse merger.

Edited by rperez817

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watch...a few years after this , CA will be banning performance electric vehicles because they use too much electricity. CA already has issues with power supply, and if you depend on one type of energy, regardless of how many sources it comes from, you will have a chance for catastrophic failures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

Europe is moving mostly at the same timetable. 


Does Europe have rolling blackouts and power grid issues?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Trailhiker said:

Just watch...a few years after this , CA will be banning performance electric vehicles because they use too much electricity. CA already has issues with power supply, and if you depend on one type of energy, regardless of how many sources it comes from, you will have a chance for catastrophic failures.


California is the poster child for making stupid decisions just because it makes them feel better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, akirby said:


California is the poster child for making stupid decisions just because it makes them feel better.


And then they wonder why people are leaving in droves 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


And then they wonder why people are leaving in droves 

Do they? Or, do the elitists think to themselves they are better off without the minions who decide to leave?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Black Label said:

Do they? Or, do the elitists think to themselves they are better off without the minions who decide to leave?

 

California is quickly becoming a bad shining example of a have and have not society at the current rates things are going. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, akirby said:

Does Europe have rolling blackouts and power grid issues?

 

Generally, Europe has fewer outages for their power grid compared to the U.S. However, last June in Germany there were several instances in which the grid was strained, and earlier that year there was a major blackout in Berlin. Germany's transition to renewable energy was not the cause for those incidents, just as California's transition to renewables isn't to blame for power grid issues there. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-power-grid-strained-several-moments-june-cause-unclear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The industry was on the path to a common emission standard, the problem is FCA, GM and Toyota saw an opening and lobbied HARD against it saying it will cost American jobs which is Ironic as GM builds less than 50% of its vehicles here and FCA slightly over 50%, Toyota was because they bet a lot on Hydrogen when the industry is moving toward  battery electric and are behind the industry in the electric car development. Sergio didn't invest in electric calling it a waste, as his plan all along was to merge with someone that was farther ahead so just buy credits in the short term and make a HEMI powered everything. GM and FCA have been buying Tesla credits to meet the requirements already. 

Battery costs should hit parity to Gas powered in the 2026-2029 time frame, after that it will actually be cheaper to produce an electric car. I suspect at the state level (across the country) you'll start seeing some laws coming that stirp local control of Wind turbines and Solar farms and grant that to the state to regulate where they can go. Also you're seeing the development and planning of High Voltage DC transmission systems that will move power needs around the county much more efficiently. So Wind Turbines in Ohio and Kansas can send power to California as needed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

 Also you're seeing the development and planning of High Voltage DC transmission systems that will move power needs around the county much more efficiently. So Wind Turbines in Ohio and Kansas can send power to California as needed. 

 

I'll believe that when I see it...in my area we've been hit by a couple major blackouts due to storms for the past 10 years and crews from out of state mention how out of date the equipment is...because the electric companies (and pretty much anyone else that is a utility) isn't investing in upgrading it because they are trying to maximize profits. 

 

Unless you want to start paying an extra 20-30% on your electric bills to pay for something that won't make things "cheaper" because they'll just keep the rates the same. 

Edited by silvrsvt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Black Label said:

Do they? Or, do the elitists think to themselves they are better off without the minions who decide to leave?


Depends on how many tax dollars they’re willing to lose when more people like Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro decide to leave. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

California is quickly becoming a bad shining example of a have and have not society at the current rates things are going. 


New York City too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Depends on how many tax dollars they’re willing to lose when more people like Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro decide to leave. 

Shapiro is already leaving. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×