Jump to content





Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Yeah that is my thought process too...where would they build it? 

 

US Unibody only Plants:

Chicago: Explorer/Aviator
Louisville: Escape/Corsair

 

Maybe Louisville would be a better fit, since Escape production might shrink a bit with all the Ford alternatives that are coming in the next 18 months or so with the Bronco Sport and Maverick pickup
 

Also I think Mustang sales are gonna take a hit with the Bronco around also...large portion of former Mustang/Camaro buyers get Wranglers to replace them. 

 

Over at FCA, the Wrangler took off and it had zero effect on Challenger. I do not know about the cross shopping at Ford or GM.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Yeah that is my thought process too...where would they build it? 

 

US Unibody only Plants:

Chicago: Explorer/Aviator
Louisville: Escape/Corsair

 

Maybe Louisville would be a better fit, since Escape production might shrink a bit with all the Ford alternatives that are coming in the next 18 months or so with the Bronco Sport and Maverick pickup
 

Also I think Mustang sales are gonna take a hit with the Bronco around also...large portion of former Mustang/Camaro buyers get Wranglers to replace them. 

 

Chicago is at capacity.  If anything, Ford would be looking for an overflow plant for its product.  It would cost a lot to convert Louisville to make RWD cars off of a different platform.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


you want my honest opinion?

 

The 2019 UAW/Ford contract only delayed the inevitable for 4 more years. That plant is as good as closed. 

 

I don't think FRAP is going anywhere.  I have been hearing rumors of that plant closing for 20 years.  I think management puts those rumors out there like they are doing with OAP now.

 

Per the 2019 Contract:

 

"Job Security: A moratorium on outsourcing. A moratorium on any plant closures except for Romeo Engine. In the case of Romeo all jobs to be protected and transferred to nearby Van Dyke Transmission. An assistance package for retirement-eligible Romeo employees. A commitment to a Flat Rock viability strategy for new product. A commitment to Buffalo Stamping and securing future opportunities to the plant".

 

"Flat Rock Assembly Plant $250 million investment • All new Mustang, including derivatives • Lincoln Continental will continue through its product lifecycle"

 

"Flat Rock Assembly (FRAP) Viability Strategy Your negotiators secured language to jointly continue the viability of Flat Rock Assembly Plant. The Company has reaffirmed their commitment to FRAP, including making significant investments in the Mustang program and continuing to explore future opportunities during the life of this agreement. Admin. Letter 26U"

 

If anything, I see FRAP being  to Ford like Bowing Green is to Corvette.  I do not think the Mustang will ever leave SE Michigan, let alone the country. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Footballfan said:

 

Over at FCA, the Wrangler took off and it had zero effect on Challenger. I do not know about the cross shopping at Ford or GM.  

 

https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/a-big-trade-in-for-the-jl-jeep-wrangler-are-pony-cars/

 



Recurring customers for the new JL Jeep Wrangler are, of course, “primarily JK owners,” according to Jeep North America Director Scott Tallon. But then he mentioned a bit of a surprise customer: people willingly trading in their iconic American muscle cars/pony cars.

 

“The pony cars… a lot of them got traded in. Ford MustangChevrolet Camaro, and even our Dodge Challenger,” said Tallon in an interview with MC&T.

 

No exact numbers though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't surprise me if the next redesigned Mustang is the final version with internal combustion engines and the generation after that is electric with lower sales volume assembled at a plant also producing electric crossovers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, ehaase said:

Wouldn't surprise me if the next redesigned Mustang is the final version with internal combustion engines and the generation after that is electric with lower sales volume assembled at a plant also producing electric crossovers. 

 

I haven't understood for years why Ford didn't start offering a Mustang Hybrid, plug-in or not. But then again, they've had little competition or incentive to do so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Footballfan said:

 

Chicago is at capacity.  If anything, Ford would be looking for an overflow plant for its product.  It would cost a lot to convert Louisville to make RWD cars off of a different platform.  

 

If Ford plans on growing at all instead of continuing to shrink, Oakville could be that overflow plant or maybe expanding the Dearborn truck plant and make the new section the overflow area. After all, the Rouge complex is a shell of its former self. Chrysler is expanding and building a new assembly plant in the belly of Detroit. 

 

Looks like the next Nautilus will be BEV and probably be built along side of the MachE. So Oakville would have plenty of room for more product and Canada has better free trade agreements with more countries it seems. So Ford has lots of options if it intends to grow again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, ehaase said:

Wouldn't surprise me if the next redesigned Mustang is the final version with internal combustion engines and the generation after that is electric with lower sales volume assembled at a plant also producing electric crossovers. 

 

I still don't see the ICE power train ever going away completely in even a generation if ever. Sure, electrics will continue to gain over time, but for many reasons ICE will continue to maintain a significant foothold. And there will always be a place for the glorious sounding V8 Mustang. I see young people all the time on You Tube lamenting the demise of V8 and Flat 12 sounds of Formula 1 no matter how much quicker the 4cyl turbos are. Probably because they sound like shit compared to a couple decades ago. Ditto for pickups. The V8 in a pickup is still very popular option. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Chrysler is expanding and building a new assembly plant in the belly of Detroit. 


I was under the impression that they where modifying an existing plant since the expected output of a large SUV like that would only be in the 100k range-not exactly enough to keep a large plant profitable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:


I was under the impression that they where modifying an existing plant since the expected output of a large SUV like that would only be in the 100k range-not exactly enough to keep a large plant profitable. 

 

Somewhat true as I believe an old engine plant was there. But from pics I've seen it's a major buildout with lots of structural steel going up and mucho bucks to build. Kudos to Chrysler. Not everyday Detroit or even MI gets a new assembly plant. Last one was the Roxor Plant in Auburn Hills building offroad only Jeep like vehicles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

If Ford plans on growing at all instead of continuing to shrink, Oakville could be that overflow plant or maybe expanding the Dearborn truck plant and make the new section the overflow area. After all, the Rouge complex is a shell of its former self. Chrysler is expanding and building a new assembly plant in the belly of Detroit. 

 

Looks like the next Nautilus will be BEV and probably be built along side of the MachE. So Oakville would have plenty of room for more product and Canada has better free trade agreements with more countries it seems. So Ford has lots of options if it intends to grow again.

The mid-sized BEVs are going into Avon Lake. If the next generation Nautilus is exclusively BEV

then that spells trouble for Oacville, the Edge's future in North America is also up for debate,

 

I don't see Ford embracing overflow production for Explorer/ Aviator, three shifts at one plant is enough for them.

Edited by jpd80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I haven't understood for years why Ford didn't start offering a Mustang Hybrid, plug-in or not. But then again, they've had little competition or incentive to do so. 


Before CD6 it was way too expensive to make a hybrid for a one off platform with low volume.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

If Ford plans on growing at all instead of continuing to shrink


Shrinking my ass.  Focus, Fiesta, Mondeo and Taurus are still in production overseas.  In NA they’ve added or are planning to add the following new vehicles since 2018:

 

Aviator, Ranger, Bronco, Bronco Sport, Mach-E, BEV F150, BEV Transit, Maverick, Midsized Ford and Lincoln BEVs.  That’s 10 new models that we know about.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I haven't understood for years why Ford didn't start offering a Mustang Hybrid, plug-in or not. But then again, they've had little competition or incentive to do so. 

Generally, Mustang buyers seem less concerned about fuel economy than Ford,

no doubt a transition is or will occur in the future but battery packaging is an issue

until the next model puts that right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, jpd80 said:

So where would you suggest it gets built when FRAP eventually closes?

 

Chicago would the obvious one since its other products are rwd too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Chicago would the obvious one since its other products are rwd too. 


Explorer/Aviator will keep it at capacity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Footballfan said:

 

I don't think FRAP is going anywhere.  I have been hearing rumors of that plant closing for 20 years.  I think management puts those rumors out there like they are doing with OAP no


I have too but this time feels different. I can't confirm for sure if it's true or not but my union rep told me that it was one of 4 plants that were going to close up until hours before the tentative agreement was announced. 3 of the 4 remained open. My gut tells me the stay in execution is only temporary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I have too but this time feels different. I can't confirm for sure if it's true or not but my union rep told me that it was one of 4 plants that were going to close up until hours before the tentative agreement was announced. 3 of the 4 remained open. My gut tells me the stay in execution is only temporary. 

 

I don't get how they can keep closing and closing and closing them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I don't get how they can keep closing and closing and closing them.

 

Probably because they want each plant operating at 100% of capacity.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I don't get how they can keep closing and closing and closing them.

It's the efficiency experts running the numbers on what Ford really needs to build,

that makes perfect sense if the recovery on most vehicles is poor or loss makers?

 

OK try this, Ford does the unthinkable and closes FRAP and OAC,

would the loss of either be a permanent loss in sales or just

a temporary thing?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Footballfan said:

 

I don't think FRAP is going anywhere.  I have been hearing rumors of that plant closing for 20 years.  I think management puts those rumors out there like they are doing with OAP now.

 

Per the 2019 Contract:

 

"Job Security: A moratorium on outsourcing. A moratorium on any plant closures except for Romeo Engine. In the case of Romeo all jobs to be protected and transferred to nearby Van Dyke Transmission. An assistance package for retirement-eligible Romeo employees. A commitment to a Flat Rock viability strategy for new product. A commitment to Buffalo Stamping and securing future opportunities to the plant".

 

"Flat Rock Assembly Plant $250 million investment • All new Mustang, including derivatives • Lincoln Continental will continue through its product lifecycle"

 

"Flat Rock Assembly (FRAP) Viability Strategy Your negotiators secured language to jointly continue the viability of Flat Rock Assembly Plant. The Company has reaffirmed their commitment to FRAP, including making significant investments in the Mustang program and continuing to explore future opportunities during the life of this agreement. Admin. Letter 26U"

 

If anything, I see FRAP being  to Ford like Bowing Green is to Corvette.  I do not think the Mustang will ever leave SE Michigan, let alone the country. 

 

I agree. I think that those "derivatives" won't be the Shelbys, etc. as some have surmised. I think that there will be a sedan version, and possibly a Lincoln sedan, too.  To balance out CAFE, they will have some EV sedans.

Edited by AGR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a Lincoln sports car? A mid-engine monster that's a little cheaper and more affordable than a GT. That would be cool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AGR said:

 

I agree. I think that those "derivatives" won't be the Shelbys, etc. as some have surmised. I think that there will be a sedan version, and possibly a Lincoln sedan, too.  To balance out CAFE, they will have some EV sedans.

if thats true, then its been the best kept secret at Ford, Hackett stripped the crap out of vehicle programs three years ago.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tesla sold 367500 units out of one factory last year. From what I understand, BEVs are easier to build then regular cars and I guess you can produce more from

thr same footprint?

 

maybe that is Ford’s thinking is that it can shrink more plants, but still build the same amount of product or more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Tesla sold 367500 units out of one factory last year. From what I understand, BEVs are easier to build then regular cars and I guess you can produce more from

thr same footprint?

 

maybe that is Ford’s thinking is that it can shrink more plants, but still build the same amount of product or more. 

In some ways, it seems more logical to start with a BEV skateboard chassis and modify it to  HEV and PHEV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×