2021 Explorer prices to be lowered.

[T-dubz]

21 minutes ago, tbone said:

As an aside, the ST resonates with my kids and their friends. We have had a lot of positive reaction to the vehicle.   That is a positive sign for attracting young people to the Explorer. 

I love the styling of all of ford’s ST products, it’s the price of most of them that I’m not a fan off. ST Line trim can’t get here soon enough in my opinion.

[jasonj80]

5 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Aviator also helps to amortize some of the costs away from Explorer carrying all of CD6 development.

Mulally refused to replace the slow selling MKT with an Aviator in 2011, instead opting for the easier

and far less costly Explorer Platinum.

That was probably one of his biggest mistakes, he never loved Lincoln and didn't see the need as an Aviator in that generation as it never would have sold in volume in China. No one in the industry except Sergio saw the collapse of the sedan market as fast as it happened. Everyone thought he was crazy that he killed cars that FCA at the time had just launched, he was smart to cut them and run. 

 

1 hour ago, bzcat said:

What jason is referring to is the fact that after longitude powertrain decision was made, several models from CD6 was cut - e.g. Continental, possibly a Ford sedan, Mustang, so all of a sudden, the accounting burden fell pretty hard on Explorer. 

Things that were being considered were Mustang, Ford Sedan,(Taurus/Falcon/Mondeo replacement) Continental, Lincoln 2 Door/4 Door coupe,  Lincoln Coupe SUV, Police Interceptor Sedan, Edge, Nautilus, White space MPV (Euro/China) It went from being a pretty extensive architecture to very few, vehicles should have launched in early 2017 when it was first conceived had it not had the start/stop on the programs. Don't be surprised to see this Explorer only around for 5ish years before it is replaced with something new and more profitable to produce. 

[FR739]

59 minutes ago, akirby said:

Maybe I overreacted due to all the other negatards.  But you certainly seem to be criticizing Explorer sales.  Look at my comparison to 2018 and tell me it’s not positive under the circumstances.

Personally I think you’re being a bit sensitive and to attack me and look up where I’m from to make a dig at me was uncalled for.  My first post I was replying to someone who was mentioning year over year gains.  My entire point was that comparing to 2019 isn’t a very good metric because of the plant change over, etc.  

 

Also, it not criticizing to post the numbers.  They are what they are and were within the context of the conversation. 

[tzach]

21 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

Things that were being considered were Mustang, Ford Sedan,(Taurus/Falcon/Mondeo replacement) Continental, Lincoln 2 Door/4 Door coupe,  Lincoln Coupe SUV, Police Interceptor Sedan, Edge, Nautilus.  Don't be surprised to see this Explorer only around for 5ish years before it is replaced with something new and more profitable to produce. 

 

What a shame this was all killed.  Was this a result of the killing of cars I assume?  

 

Will an Explorer replacement go back to FWD?

 

I wonder if Farley  will change any of this?

[HotRunrGuy]

34 minutes ago, FR739 said:

Personally I think you’re being a bit sensitive and to attack me and look up where I’m from to make a dig at me was uncalled for.  My first post I was replying to someone who was mentioning year over year gains.  My entire point was that comparing to 2019 isn’t a very good metric because of the plant change over, etc.  

 

Also, it not criticizing to post the numbers.  They are what they are and were within the context of the conversation. 

 

FR739, I've got a screenshot of his original response to you, before he went back in and modified it.  In case your attorney needs to see it,,,

 

HRG

[jpd80]

41 minutes ago, tzach said:

 

What a shame this was all killed.  Was this a result of the killing of cars I assume?  

 

Will an Explorer replacement go back to FWD?

 

I wonder if Farley  will change any of this?

No, the money has already been spent, FX4 is a reinforcement of that.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

That was probably one of his biggest mistakes, he never loved Lincoln and didn't see the need as an Aviator in that generation as it never would have sold in volume in China. No one in the industry except Sergio saw the collapse of the sedan market as fast as it happened. Everyone thought he was crazy that he killed cars that FCA at the time had just launched, he was smart to cut them and run. 

 

Things that were being considered were Mustang, Ford Sedan,(Taurus/Falcon/Mondeo replacement) Continental, Lincoln 2 Door/4 Door coupe,  Lincoln Coupe SUV, Police Interceptor Sedan, Edge, Nautilus, White space MPV (Euro/China) It went from being a pretty extensive architecture to very few, vehicles should have launched in early 2017 when it was first conceived had it not had the start/stop on the programs. Don't be surprised to see this Explorer only around for 5ish years before it is replaced with something new and more profitable to produce. 

Mulally just wasn’t interested in pushing large RWD passenger vehicles outside of crew cab F Series. It took until Mark Field’s reign to at least change the conversation and also bring back Ranger and Bronco. Before that it was all dead issues to Mulally.

 

Hackett did a lot of good things behind the scenes and unfairly, I think Farley will get credit for improvements in the coming years. I think Farley will be the “profit” man as well as the guy on point when electrification really kicks off 

Edited August 12, 2020 by jpd80

[kyle]

28 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

FR739, I've got a screenshot of his original response to you, before he went back in and modified it.  In case your attorney needs to see it,,,

 

HRG

 

That's funny....everyone play nice and we all get a little worked up here because most of us care about Ford.  And this is my site to decompress!  FR739-welcome to the site and Akirby is a great moderator but is pretty passionate at times:)

[T-dubz]

17 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Mulally just wasn’t interested in pushing large RWD passenger vehicles outside of crew cab F Series. It took until Mark Field’s reign to at least change the conversation and also bring back Ranger and Bronco. Before that it was all dead issues to Mulally.

 

Hackett did a lot of good things behind the scenes and unfairly, I think Farley will get credit for improvements in the coming years. I think Farley will be the “profit” man as well as the guy on point when electrification really kicks off 

This is probably a dumb question but could the explorer also ride on a modified T6 platform in the future? Bronco/ranger/explorer and maybe Everest if it ever comes to the US all on the same platform would be quite a bit of volume.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, FR739 said:

Personally I think you’re being a bit sensitive and to attack me and look up where I’m from to make a dig at me was uncalled for.  My first post I was replying to someone who was mentioning year over year gains.  My entire point was that comparing to 2019 isn’t a very good metric because of the plant change over, etc.  

 

Also, it not criticizing to post the numbers.  They are what they are and were within the context of the conversation. 

I already said I overreacted.  If you’re looking for an apology, I apologize.

[akirby]

37 minutes ago, kyle said:

 

That's funny....everyone play nice and we all get a little worked up here because most of us care about Ford.  And this is my site to decompress!  FR739-welcome to the site and Akirby is a great moderator but is pretty passionate at times:)

I just get worked up when people ignore facts and take things completely out of context.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

32 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

This is probably a dumb question but could the explorer also ride on a modified T6 platform in the future? Bronco/ranger/explorer and maybe Everest if it ever comes to the US all on the same platform would be quite a bit of volume.

If you eventually have Explorer on T6 (which I don't think will ever happen but I'll roll with it for the sake of this discussion) you definitely don't need to bring Everest over here. It's already highly questionable with Bronco around. With it being a 3 row SUV it's also kinda stepping on the toes of Expedition if you move it back to BOF, unless they go back to being 2 rows and party like it's 1995. 

[FR739]

50 minutes ago, kyle said:

 

That's funny....everyone play nice and we all get a little worked up here because most of us care about Ford.  And this is my site to decompress!  FR739-welcome to the site and Akirby is a great moderator but is pretty passionate at times:)

Thank you very much.  As for the last part of your post, you know what they say about first impressions.....

 

17 minutes ago, akirby said:

I already said I overreacted.  If you’re looking for an apology, I apologize.

 

I don’t need an apology.  But I certainly am free to voice my opinion of your attitude towards me (or rather my posts).  
 

That being said, all is well.  I’m not the type of person to let things I read on the internet bother me. Life is too short to let unknown people have that kind of control over me.  

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, tzach said:

 

What a shame this was all killed.  Was this a result of the killing of cars I assume?  

 

Will an Explorer replacement go back to FWD?

 

If anything, looking at the tea leaves of the future, the best course of action would be to continue with the CD6 for the next decade or so, trying to improve it and profitability of it. 

 

I'm going to assume the replacement is going to be a large BEV vehicle in roughly 12-15 years from now. Hopefully we get at least 2-3 MCEs/minor refreshes in that time frame.  

[rperez817]

4 hours ago, tbone said:

Do you own one, or have you spent any appreciable time in one?

 

Got a 2020 Explorer XLT 2WD 2.3L as a loaner/rental for 2 days back in March when my Ranger had some work done at Autonation Ford's body shop. By Ford standards, 2020 Explorer wasn't bad, and definitely better than the ancient feeling 2016 Explorer I rented a few years back.

 

But compared to a Telluride, Highlander, or Pilot, mediocre is an accurate description. Engine noise, fit & finish, and ride quality were all out of character for a vehicle priced at about $40k. The professional reviewers who criticized the same things on 2020 Explorer were absolutely correct, they spoke the truth.

[FR739]

13 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

But compared to a Telluride, Highlander, or Pilot, mediocre is an accurate description. Engine noise, fit & finish, and ride quality were all out of character for a vehicle priced at about $40k. The professional reviewers who criticized the same things on 2020 Explorer were absolutely correct, they spoke the truth.

Speaking of the Telluride, it was the second fastest selling vehicle from March through June of 2020. Surprisingly the Blazer was number 1 lasting only 19 days on the lot.  The Telluride was about a week more.  Average was almost 100 days. 
 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chevy-trailblazer-small-suv-scores-135321095.html

[akirby]

1 hour ago, FR739 said:

Speaking of the Telluride, it was the second fastest selling vehicle from March through June of 2020. Surprisingly the Blazer was number 1 lasting only 19 days on the lot.  The Telluride was about a week more.  Average was almost 100 days. 
 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chevy-trailblazer-small-suv-scores-135321095.html

How many did they sell compared to Explorer and other vehicles in the segment?

[bzcat]

Telluride is supply constrained because the production volume was apportioned to Hyundai Palisade this year (Palisade launched staggered 10 months after Telluride). Last year, when supply was not constrained, Kia moved a lot of metal right out of the gate. Look, the Hyundai twins are the real deal and they are the first serious new competition for Explorer in a long time. I don't know some people keep dismissing them. 

[CKNSLS]

48 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Telluride is supply constrained because the production volume was apportioned to Hyundai Palisade this year (Palisade launched staggered 10 months after Telluride). Last year, when supply was not constrained, Kia moved a lot of metal right out of the gate. Look, the Hyundai twins are the real deal and they are the first serious new competition for Explorer in a long time. I don't know some people keep dismissing them. 

The unique thing about the Telluride/Palisades is they are having conquest sales among a whole range of new CUV/SUV buyers. Those considering, Tahoe, Explorer, and some high end European marques. Especially among those who could care less about BOF and towing capabilities.

[FR739]

Comparisons of the Telluride to the Explorer are a relevant but must be taken in context.  While some are hellbent on raw sales numbers they don’t tell the entire story.  Kia is seeing great success with the Telluride but if you go by strictly the sales numbers (say compared to the Explorer) it would look like a total failure.  
 

But the fact is that Kia is a much smaller company and it would be unreasonable to expect a much smaller company to compete with the likes of Ford.  It’s a similar story with the Ram.  It’s an immensely strong contender and really outclasses the other trucks on the market.  But it’s sales will never come close to that of GM or Ford because Ram is a much smaller company.  But that doesn’t take away from the runaway success of the 2019 Ram or the Telluride.  

[akirby]

They’re good vehicles and any time you have good vehicles and you price them several thousand less than the competition you’ll get sales at the expense of profit and if the supply is low they’ll turn over quickly.  And since Kia is straddling the luxury fence with their interiors you’d really have to compare to both Explorer and Aviator.

 

Context is important.

[jpd80]

So imagine how Explorer would be selling if price matched to Telluride.

Yep that's right, selling more than Ford could make but, lots of profit walking out the door too.

 

Somewhere along the line there must be balance and I kinda sense that Ford is beginning to 

realise that too, no massive reductions in price mind you but a nod at least to easing back

by ~$3,000 on higher trims.... I'm thinking that  there's a lot of fat for incentives on the last

of the '20s and I hope that  Ford takes a swing at it to pick up buyer interest.

Edited August 13, 2020 by jpd80

[jasonj80]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

So imagine how Explorer would be selling if price matched to Telluride.

Yep that's right, selling more than Ford could make but, lots of profit walking out the door too.

 

Somewhere along the line there must be balance and I kinda sense that Ford is beginning to 

realise that too, no massive reductions in price mind you but a nod at least to easing back

by ~$3,000 on higher trims.... I'm thinking that  there's a lot of fat for incentives on the last

of the '20s and I hope that  Ford takes a swing at it to pick up buyer interest.

There is currently $3300 in rebates or $1300 & 0% for 72 Months on the Explorer, The Edge currently has $5800(Titanium & ST)  $4800  (ST-Line, SEL, SE) or $4750 ($3750) & 0% for 72months.  Only vehicle that doesn’t really have much of anything now is the Ranger and pickings are very slim at to non existence this point. Edge and Explorer stock is low with the XLT and SEL but can find upper end models around.  Escapes and Ecosports are loaded up pretty good, except hybrid model escapes. 

[kyle]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

So imagine how Explorer would be selling if price matched to Telluride.

Yep that's right, selling more than Ford could make but, lots of profit walking out the door too.

 

A lot of this is tied to how strong and large Ford's dealer network is compared to Kia/Hyundai.  Have a friend who was looking at either a Land Rover or Audi and went out and bought the SX Telluride for maybe $1k over invoice and is thrilled. My coworker traded in her 5 series for a new SX also.

 

Like Akirby said, they are straddling the Explorer/Aviator segment. No doubt it is a hot vehicle and the way I look at is if Ford reacts like they are than we the consumer will benefit from a much better product. Sales numbers don't tell the entire story but nice to see the Explorer doing well in a very hot segment. The white Limited to me looks great and is very noticeable and see a good number of ST's on the streets in the Atlanta area-relevant speaking where everyone owns a damn import. 

 

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, kyle said:

the way I look at is if Ford reacts like they are than we the consumer will benefit from a much better product.

 

Yes sir kyle. Ford's pricing adjustments and emergency refresh (though limited in scope) for 2021 Explorer represent a nice change of tune for the company. Ford's usual attitude to consumer and professional reviewer complaints is complete indifference and ignorance.

 

Ford executives finally realized they can't keep coasting on Explorer name recognition alone, or keep relying on "sheeple" customers getting a new Explorer just because it's a Ford.

Edited August 13, 2020 by rperez817