2021 Explorer prices to be lowered.

[jpd80]

5 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

 

I think it's a tweener.

If you look at interior dimensions, it's clear that Envision is close to Corsair even though

the entry price is $4,000 less....of course it's gonna out sell the Corsair.

[silvrsvt]

15 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Well heck, the made in China Buick Envision is already out-selling the made in US Lincoln Corsair, in the same market segment.

 

Buick doesn't quite play at the same level as Lincoln does.

 

The Envision is about $2K to 7K cheaper trim level to trim level as Corsair models.

 

Buick splits the difference between higher end Ford trims and lower end Lincoln trims. 

[silvrsvt]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

If you look at interior dimensions, it's clear that Envision is close to Corsair even though

the entry price is $4,000 less....of course it's gonna out sell the Corsair.

 

Buick is just a Mercury that was successful in China...its a tweener in price. 

[jasonj80]

The only people that consider Buick “luxury” is GM marketing, GM fan boys and people over than 60. Ask a 25 year old if Buick is the same luxury as Lincoln or Audi and the answer would be a hard no. 

[Trader 10]

1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

The only people that consider Buick “luxury” is GM marketing, GM fan boys and people over than 60. Ask a 25 year old if Buick is the same luxury as Lincoln or Audi and the answer would be a hard no. 

 

I don’t doubt that but I don’t think know that it means much. There aren’t many 25 year olds buying luxury vehicles. They can’t afford them. Lots of 60 and over folks can and do though

[Trader 10]

I wonder if lowering Explorer prices will have much effect on either Ford or the consumer. I can see Ford lowering incentives so that the actual price paid by the buyer isn’t  much different for the 2021 model vs. the 2020.

[fuzzymoomoo]

21 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

 

I don’t doubt that but I don’t think know that it means much. There aren’t many 25 year olds buying luxury vehicles. They can’t afford them. Lots of 60 and over folks can and do though

I'll be 31 and you'll never see me owning a luxury car

[ice-capades]

1 hour ago, Trader 10 said:

I wonder if lowering Explorer prices will have much effect on either Ford or the consumer. I can see Ford lowering incentives so that the actual price paid by the buyer isn’t  much different for the 2021 model vs. the 2020.

 

Ford will most likely increase the incentives on the 2020 Explorer's to help clear out the inventory and minimize the leftover inventory in stock by the time the lower priced 2021MY Explorer's start shipping.  

[Harley Lover]

16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Once conventional ICE is done, it's actually easier to use a skateboard BEV to develop better ICE hybrids and PHEVs.

 

Are there any current examples of this combo in the market?

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Are there any current examples of this combo in the market?

Not yet, most manufacturers are not even looking at the possibilities I mentioned

as they're convinced that there will be mass migration to BEVs, killing all ICEs.

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Not yet, most manufacturers are not even looking at the possibilities I mentioned

as they're convinced that there will be mass migration to BEVs, killing all ICEs.

 

How is that? just from a packaging standpoint they are completely different. 

 

Battery packs are part of the structure, with the rear and front suspension units with motors hung off it. 

 

Unless your talking about adding a small engine as a power unit to recharge the batteries...but I'd assume you want to put that  under the car like you do when installing a ICE engine on a assembly line. 

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

How is that? just from a packaging standpoint they are completely different. 

 

Battery packs are part of the structure, with the rear and front suspension units with motors hung off it. 

 

Unless your talking about adding a small engine as a power unit to recharge the batteries...but I'd assume you want to put that  under the car like you do when installing a ICE engine on a assembly line. 

The skateboard is actually a frame designed to store the cells below the floorpan, it’s presence normally prevents the use of a drive shaft to the rear but would permit modification to include a small range range extender ICE.....

 

Image  if Volt had skateboard frame instead of batteries in a space wasting Tee formation. It could have been used on so many more applications.

 

I don’t mean to be a contrarian here, just thinking of broader applications to replace existing manufacturing approaches. I just feel that the plans will be modified slightly in the future to include a lot more vehicles and drive down costs.

Edited August 16, 2020 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

18 hours ago, jpd80 said:

If you look at interior dimensions, it's clear that Envision is close to Corsair even though

the entry price is $4,000 less....of course it's gonna out sell the Corsair.

 

With the MKZ now out of production, Corsair sales numbers need to pick up to make up the difference with Lincoln down to 4 vehicle stable by end of year. I'm seeing $325/month lease deals on the Corsair now with only $2500 down and not much more for Nautilus. 

[jpd80]

30 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

With the MKZ now out of production, Corsair sales numbers need to pick up to make up the difference with Lincoln down to 4 vehicle stable by end of year. I'm seeing $325/month lease deals on the Corsair now with only $2500 down and not much more for Nautilus. 

Maybe Lincoln thinks that the  best way to increase sales is to block off options like MKZ

[CKNSLS]

On 8/15/2020 at 4:30 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:

I thought Envision was Nautilus sized ?

 

My post was referring to Chinese badged vehicles.

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

 

My post was referring to Chinese badged vehicles.

I doubt that a domestic Chinese brand would get the kind of sales traction you anticipate,

I think that's why they are still not on sale in North America..

[kyle]

22 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

The only people that consider Buick “luxury” is GM marketing, GM fan boys and people over than 60. Ask a 25 year old if Buick is the same luxury as Lincoln or Audi and the answer would be a hard no. 

 

If you ask a 25 year old if he thinks Lincoln is in the same class as Audi you wouldn't like the answer. They've come a long way, but not in the same class or perception.....think this will take another 5 years or so of solid marketing, fresh products and dealerships that need facelifts. 

[akirby]

24 minutes ago, kyle said:

 

If you ask a 25 year old if he thinks Lincoln is in the same class as Audi you wouldn't like the answer. They've come a long way, but not in the same class or perception.....think this will take another 5 years or so of solid marketing, fresh products and dealerships that need facelifts. 

I think it depends on which vehicle they’re familiar with.  If it’s MKZ or the older ones that’s probably true.  But if they’re looking at any of the newer models starting with the new Navigator I think the answer would be different.  Especially Aviator and Corsair.

[kyle]

1 minute ago, akirby said:

I think it depends on which vehicle they’re familiar with.  If it’s MKZ or the older ones that’s probably true.  But if they’re looking at any of the newer models starting with the new Navigator I think the answer would be different.  Especially Aviator and Corsair.

 

I totally agree and think the new product is definitely there but it is going to take more time to change the brands perception, because they just left it for dead for so many years.  And maybe Jason's correct-a 25 year old doesn't have as much of a negative perspective since they don't remember all the crap products Lincoln pushed into the market. Entirely different topic but it sure has been fun to watch Lincoln's renasiance. Now they just need to update the Navigator to keep pace with the new Escalade.

[jasonj80]

That depends in the country where you go as well; California, Miami, Atlanta, Dallas are full of base model luxury cars leased by people in there 20's and 30's; perception is very important to some. Lincoln doesn't even really compete in this space the only issue I see with the current Lincoln lineup is that the Corsair should have been offered with the Escape hybrid powertrain from launch (Should be fixed for 2021) give the MKZ crowd that had hybrids another option on the Lincoln lot and make inroads in CA. 

[92merc]

50 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

That depends in the country where you go as well; California, Miami, Atlanta, Dallas are full of base model luxury cars leased by people in there 20's and 30's; perception is very important to some. Lincoln doesn't even really compete in this space the only issue I see with the current Lincoln lineup is that the Corsair should have been offered with the Escape hybrid powertrain from launch (Should be fixed for 2021) give the MKZ crowd that had hybrids another option on the Lincoln lot and make inroads in CA. 

Actually, Lincoln decided their Corsair should be unique.  Their Corsair hybrid is a plug in hybrid, not standard.  And the rear wheels are electric powered only.  So the Corsair hybrid setup is a fair amount different that stopped them from launching at the same time.

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, 92merc said:

Actually, Lincoln decided their Corsair should be unique.  Their Corsair hybrid is a plug in hybrid, not standard.  And the rear wheels are electric powered only.  So the Corsair hybrid setup is a fair amount different that stopped them from launching at the same time.

 

Many are still waiting for the plugin Corsair and Escape. Have a feeling they are made but sitting in holding area waiting for ok to ship signal. They better hurry since the 2021 MY is upon us. Yeah, I think the hybrid is a better deal than the plugin and glad I bought one. 

[jasonj80]

2 hours ago, 92merc said:

Actually, Lincoln decided their Corsair should be unique.  Their Corsair hybrid is a plug in hybrid, not standard.  And the rear wheels are electric powered only.  So the Corsair hybrid setup is a fair amount different that stopped them from launching at the same time.

2021 order guide copy showed the 2.5L hybrid powertrain from the Escape as an option for 2021. No mention of the 2.3L plug in, other than the fleet news with a Nov production date. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

2021 order guide copy showed the 2.5L hybrid powertrain from the Escape as an option for 2021. No mention of the 2.3L plug in, other than the fleet news with a Nov production date. 

 

All the reports I can find are that the Corsair GT phev is using the 2.5L engine not the 2.3LEB.  Which is disappointing - we are considering one to replace the MKX.

[atomcat68]

9 hours ago, kyle said:

 

If you ask a 25 year old if he thinks Lincoln is in the same class as Audi you wouldn't like the answer. They've come a long way, but not in the same class or perception.....think this will take another 5 years or so of solid marketing, fresh products and dealerships that need facelifts. 

I doubt half of the 25 year olds are even aware that there is an auto brand called Lincoln.