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PREMiERdrum

As Farley's tenure begins, Ford focuses on growth, improved execution, faster transformations

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1 minute ago, rperez817 said:

 

It's a good way for Ford to take what it's learned already with its Smart Mobility and AV business and come up with new products and services. One component of the automotive industry's future is 100% autonomous vehicles, and Ford is at least doing things now to get there.

 

Jim Farley directly managed Ford Smart Mobility and AV before becoming CEO. That is one factor for its success.


What tangible success have either of those entities produced? They’re not even delivering profits at the moment. 

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22 minutes ago, kyle said:

Sure Hackett gets credit for some of the successes Ford's had recently, but he should also get faulted for the mistakes on his watch. I like some of his initiatives-but he talks in tongues and was brought in to help raise the stock price-something he clearly failed at.

 

He was brought in to correct Mark Fields' mistakes and get the company headed in a better direction for long term success.   Raising the stock price is every CEO's goal, but in a company like Ford it's not that easy.    You either make business decisions to make short term stock gains (which usually means big expense cuts) which kills you long term or you make the best long term decisions and hope the stock price eventually goes up based on continued success and good outlooks and that boils down to products.  

 

While he definitely had some mistakes and confused some people, I think he has positioned the company well for the future and should get a lot of credit for that.   Especially the Bronco program.   It may have been late but it looks to be a huge winner right out of the gate.   Without Hackett I'm not sure they would have made that huge investment up front at the expense of other programs and we wouldn't have all the bells and whistles and models and accessories, etc.    That's where Hackett's philosophy of owning the segment is really paying off.

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22 minutes ago, kyle said:

Sure Hackett gets credit for some of the successes Ford's had recently, but he should also get faulted for the mistakes on his watch. 

 

Hackett certainly has been faulted heavily for the slow pace of his fitness initiatives, and for mediocre or poor financials during his term as CEO. Analysts, investors, and media are justified in those criticisms. They expect results quick. But Hackett took the CEO role of a company that was basically "going out of business for 50 years" to paraphrase Alan Mulally. He did what was humanly possible to get Ford back on the right track, opening the door for Ford to survive in the next 5, 10, 20 years.

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15 minutes ago, T-dubz said:


Well it wasn’t just sedans I was referring to. Edge, expedition, and flex went long times without any substantial changes.

 

Fuzzy already talked about Edge.

 

Flex was basically ignored from the day it launched - it made great inroads in coastal markets, and those that had them (including myself) love them, but for whatever reason, they decided it wasn't worth further investment - those dollars went to Explorer.  I wouldn't be totally surprised if it eventually reappears as one of the white space BEV vehicles.

 

Expy was somewhat understandably put on the way back burner when gas prices shot through the roof (any big vehicles with bad mileage at the time were in question).  The problem was, as things got better economically and gas price wise, it was left on the back burner way too long.  The '18 has definitely helped, but they need to keep pushing the gas there.  While I understand the cost benefits of sharing the F-150's interior, I think it'd be nice for it to have a (more) unique dash, too.

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16 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Edge didn't really go that long. Came out as a 2007, facelift for 2010, all new in 2015, facelift for 2019. 
 

I get the feeling like Flex wasn't update because that was kind of the plan all along. I got nothing for Expedition. That was a giant missed opportunity. 

The new rwd Explorer made the Flex redundant. The new Escape made the Focus hatchback redundant and maybe the Fusion Active will make the Fusion redundant. So far Ford is pretty much mum on this project. The Evos shown looks like a longer version of my Escape. I like the curved sides like on the Escape.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

What tangible success have either of those entities produced?  

 

Examples.

  • Ford AV was the first company to successfully test an autonomous vehicle in snowy conditions
  • Through its acquisition of Journey Holding, Ford has the capability to provide automatic vehicle location services for not only its own fleet customers, but to other organizations operating fleets as well
  • Ford partnered with companies like Postmates, Domino's Pizza, and Walmart to test out services for product delivery using AV
  • As a member of Partnership for Automated Vehicle Education, Ford has been actively involved in education campaigns for the public about the benefits of AV, including programs for grade school and high school students
  • Ford developed a novel system for cleaning sensors and cameras on AV
Edited by rperez817

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Many great points in this discussion

 

A few notes:

 

Without a few *major* course corrections that Hackett made, I honestly don't want to think about what we'd be discussing on this page today. The iceberg was within site yet the captain kept talking about his plans upon reaching New York. Bad, bad, bad. Worse than most will understand for a while. 

 

The lack of a comprehensive portfolio strategy is why we saw Freestyle come out as it did, Explorer left to die, Expedition kept languishing, and Flex quickly abandoned. For the first time in my fandom of the Blue Oval, there is a legitimate, comprehensive *Portfolio* strategy in place that is helping better allocate investment, talent, and attention. They are NOT going to force entries into every segment. The segments they do enter, they're expect to commit to and own. 

The Mustang, Bronco, and F-Series sub-brands are three areas we all should be particularly excited about. They are getting the attention of Crown Jewels... as they should. 

 

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All of my Ford contacts have retired, but they still keep in touch with friends who still work for the company.  Hackett did introduce meaningful, behind-the-scenes management and structural changes that have changed how Ford engineers a car.  Witness the new Bronco, which is part of the new EPLM (Enterprise Product Line Management) system.  We talked about EPLM's before.  A game-changer if it works.

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33 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Fuzzy already talked about Edge.

 

Flex was basically ignored from the day it launched - it made great inroads in coastal markets, and those that had them (including myself) love them, but for whatever reason, they decided it wasn't worth further investment - those dollars went to Explorer.  I wouldn't be totally surprised if it eventually reappears as one of the white space BEV vehicles.

 

Expy was somewhat understandably put on the way back burner when gas prices shot through the roof (any big vehicles with bad mileage at the time were in question).  The problem was, as things got better economically and gas price wise, it was left on the back burner way too long.  The '18 has definitely helped, but they need to keep pushing the gas there.  While I understand the cost benefits of sharing the F-150's interior, I think it'd be nice for it to have a (more) unique dash, too.

 

25 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

The new rwd Explorer made the Flex redundant. The new Escape made the Focus hatchback redundant and maybe the Fusion Active will make the Fusion redundant. So far Ford is pretty much mum on this project. The Evos shown looks like a longer version of my Escape. I like the curved sides like on the Escape.


Flex was already redundant when it came out because of Freestyle/Taurus X. I'm convinced that (on top of it being a Mark Fields pet project) the only reason Flex made it to production in the first place was to prove the business case and justify moving Explorer to D4. 

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14 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Examples.

  • Ford AV was the first company to successfully test an autonomous vehicle in snowy conditions
  • Through its acquisition of Journey Holding, Ford has the capability to provide automatic vehicle location services for not only its own fleet customers, but to other organizations operating fleets as well
  • Ford partnered with companies like Postmates, Domino's Pizza, and Walmart to test out services for product delivery using AV
  • As a member of Partnership for Automated Vehicle Education, Ford has been actively involved in education campaigns for the public about the benefits of AV, including grade school and high school students
  • Ford developed a novel system for cleaning sensors and cameras on AV


And how much of that has contributed to the bottom line? 
 

I'll help you out. None of it. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


And how much of that has contributed to the bottom line? 
 

I'll help you out. None of it. 

 

Thank you sir. They shouldn't be expected to contribute to Ford's net income at this point in time. The payoff from Ford Smart Mobility and AV business units will be more long term, most importantly in keeping Ford relevant in the automotive industry's future.

 

The 3 pillars of that future are.

  1. 100% electric
  2. 100% autonomous
  3. Mobility services as a key component and business driver

The work Ford Smart Mobility and AV is doing today prepares Ford to meet the second and third goals.

Edited by rperez817

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1 hour ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Many great points in this discussion

 

A few notes:

 

Without a few *major* course corrections that Hackett made, I honestly don't want to think about what we'd be discussing on this page today. The iceberg was within site yet the captain kept talking about his plans upon reaching New York. Bad, bad, bad. Worse than most will understand for a while. 

 

The lack of a comprehensive portfolio strategy is why we saw Freestyle come out as it did, Explorer left to die, Expedition kept languishing, and Flex quickly abandoned. For the first time in my fandom of the Blue Oval, there is a legitimate, comprehensive *Portfolio* strategy in place that is helping better allocate investment, talent, and attention. They are NOT going to force entries into every segment. The segments they do enter, they're expect to commit to and own. 

The Mustang, Bronco, and F-Series sub-brands are three areas we all should be particularly excited about. They are getting the attention of Crown Jewels... as they should. 

 

Thanks for your insight. I hope the new strategy includes a focus on better quality.

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 


Flex was already redundant when it came out because of Freestyle/Taurus X. I'm convinced that (on top of it being a Mark Fields pet project) the only reason Flex made it to production in the first place was to prove the business case and justify moving Explorer to D4. 

 

Flex replaced Freestyle/Taurus X.

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1 minute ago, rmc523 said:

 

Flex replaced Freestyle/Taurus X.

I thought it overlapped during the Taurus X years. My bad. 

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you sir. They shouldn't be expected to contribute to Ford's net income at this point in time. The payoff from Ford Smart Mobility and AV business units will be more long term, most importantly in keeping Ford relevant in the automotive industry's future.

 

The 3 pillars of that future are.

  1. 100% electric
  2. 100% autonomous
  3. Mobility services as a key component and business driver

The work Ford Smart Mobility and AV is doing today prepares Ford to meet the second and third goals.


That's fine and all, but all we've seen is vague promises for the future, and several different versions of it at that. Nothing concrete. At some point sooner rather than later this needs to turn into more than just watercolors and presentations. You can't just keep dumping millions of dollars into anything indefinitely. 

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Outside of limited use case scenarios, Autonomous cars are the biggest piece of BS spread over the past 5-10 years. Its ALOT harder then anyone expected to be and it was being used to pump up stock prices of some companies.

 

We will see 50%+ market penetration of Electric vehicles before we 10% autonomous cars in the market. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Outside of limited use case scenarios, Autonomous cars are the biggest piece of BS spread over the past 5-10 years. Its ALOT harder then anyone expected to be and it was being used to pump up stock prices of some companies.

 

We will see 50%+ market penetration of Electric vehicles before we 10% autonomous cars in the market. 

 

 


I bet it will be 50% electric penetration before we get to 1% autonomous cars. I would bet my house on it. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Outside of limited use case scenarios, Autonomous cars are the biggest piece of BS spread over the past 5-10 years. Its ALOT harder then anyone expected to be and it was being used to pump up stock prices of some companies.

 

We will see 50%+ market penetration of Electric vehicles before we 10% autonomous cars in the market. 

 

 

 

But Elon promised it this year, for sure this time 🙄

Edited by valve
fix paste

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I thought it overlapped during the Taurus X years. My bad. 

 

Well, I guess there was at least part of a single model year they overlapped.  Freestyle arrived in '05 alongside the Five Hundred.  It was "replaced" in '08 with the Taurus X (refresh of Freestyle, Five Hundred's refresh became Taurus) and lasted until '09, while Flex arrived for the '09 model year.  But overall, Flex replaced Freestyle/Taurus X.

 

51 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


That's fine and all, but all we've seen is vague promises for the future, and several different versions of it at that. Nothing concrete. At some point sooner rather than later this needs to turn into more than just watercolors and presentations. You can't just keep dumping millions of dollars into anything indefinitely. 

 

I think what it is - wall street and tech companies think they know best and expected unicorns (AVs) to take over immediately and we'll live in some automotive utopia.  This forced the big guys (Ford & friends) to pour money into it too (more than they had been).  Then testing started happening, and they quickly realized how unrealistic the predictions were, and Ford has scaled back expectations to what others have pointed out (limited use, set route kind of AVs for a while).

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To be fair - Ford’s plan for AVs has been the same for awhile now, even before the AV hype died down.  They’ve always been targeting commercial managed use cases.  I think part of the delay is they want to use BEVs.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Outside of limited use case scenarios, Autonomous cars are the biggest piece of BS spread over the past 5-10 years. 

 

This statement highlights the importance of educating the public about about the potential benefits of AVs and dispelling misconceptions. That's why Ford's membership in the Partners for Automated Vehicle Education group and the work Ford has done with its own AV education campaigns is a success factor as I mentioned earlier in this thread. 

 

Edited by rperez817

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Many great points in this discussion

 

A few notes:

 

Without a few *major* course corrections that Hackett made, I honestly don't want to think about what we'd be discussing on this page today. The iceberg was within site yet the captain kept talking about his plans upon reaching New York. Bad, bad, bad. Worse than most will understand for a while. 

 

The lack of a comprehensive portfolio strategy is why we saw Freestyle come out as it did, Explorer left to die, Expedition kept languishing, and Flex quickly abandoned. For the first time in my fandom of the Blue Oval, there is a legitimate, comprehensive *Portfolio* strategy in place that is helping better allocate investment, talent, and attention. They are NOT going to force entries into every segment. The segments they do enter, they're expect to commit to and own. 

The Mustang, Bronco, and F-Series sub-brands are three areas we all should be particularly excited about. They are getting the attention of Crown Jewels... as they should. 

 

Hackett got credit for many initiatives begun under Fields, Bronco and Bronco Sport, Explorer, F150 based Expedition,

NG F150 & SD, New Escape/ Corsair are all pivotal models essential to Ford paying the bills today. Things like BEV C-Max

were an example of Ford's slow concept to market development  strategy needed to change, an area where Hackett took

the bull by the horns and actually changed decades of institutionalized incompetence by giving the power to say something

is wrong and needs to change.....and then doing it, making the change to a better or more appropriate vehicle.

 

Fields also cancelled SLP and next gen Fusion/ MKZ in late 2016, so set things in motion for changing away from cars.

Oh and he signed off on Ranger replacing Focus at Flat Rock as a prelude to Broncos arrival.

 

Fields gets a lot of bad press but where he failed was not embracing BEVs and AV / Connectivity quickly enough

but what he did deliver were hybrids and performance plug in hybrids, an area where GM and FCA have nothing.

 

What really saved Jim Hackett's bacon was the Alliance with VW,  I dread to think of the mess Ford would have

been in without that future sharing of vehicles and tech. My hope is that Jim Farley and his industry experience

now propels all of those changes into billions of profit for Ford. With more money, more things become possible.

Edited by jpd80

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Last year VOYAGE did mapping of my community for about 6 months and started offering rides in the fall. Human in the drivers seat, but vehicle drove itself. Then a few months later they disappeared. I have to believe something happened, but no one is talking, and they left before the pandemic. Lots of hype but no results. And my area has great infrastructure which is why it was chosen. If autonomous driving can't make it here, it can't make it anywhere.

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PTS has been down/slow for a significant amount of time each day this week. Acting like a "tech company" is a pretty lofty goal when you can't keep a necessary-to-dealership-business website operational. 

Oh... and they REQUIRE I.E. to access it...

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1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

Last year VOYAGE did mapping of my community for about 6 months and started offering rides in the fall. Human in the drivers seat, but vehicle drove itself. Then a few months later they disappeared. I have to believe something happened, but no one is talking, and they left before the pandemic. Lots of hype but no results. And my area has great infrastructure which is why it was chosen. If autonomous driving can't make it here, it can't make it anywhere.

Automation is definitely the future... but nobody is mentioning the jobs that would be lost to widespread use of AVs: Taxi drivers, uber drivers, pizza delivery boys, truck drivers, Bus drivers.

And considering how dangerous and unreliable these things are... I just don't see the point. Keep the robots in the factories where they belong, and leave the driving to us old fashioned humans.

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