akirby Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 hours ago, FordBuyer said: Then pay the worker a $500+ bonus to get vaccinated. It would cost Ford a lot more in downtime if plant becomes infected. That's a viable option but then you have to pay everyone that was already vaccinated too. Probably still cheaper. However, I don't think you can assume that a plant shutdown would be likely if 70% of the workers are vaccinated. A large percentage of folks under 55 would not even need to miss work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 hours ago, FordBuyer said: I would think the opposite.....many more cases and deaths than reported plus millions of "long haulers" still suffering from the disease. Many never got tested and many never went to the hospital and died at home. The estimates I have heard concerning unreported deaths is 50,000+. Worldwide, over 1 million. If you look at total deaths for 2020 that includes those that died at home, tested or untested, any and all causes and that data shows 450K+ deaths above and beyond the historical average. Every year total deaths increases at least 20K due to population increase and sometimes as much as 80K due to seasonal flu and other things. To go from 80K to 450K with no other known causes you have to conclude that Covid was responsible for those additional deaths. Now this should also result in a lower than normal death rate over the next few years since a large portion of the deaths were over 65 and those with other complications who were likely to die over the next few years anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 21 hours ago, FordBuyer said: Great news, but in my world every Ford employee should be required to be vaccinated to continue employment. Uh, no. Not gonna happen. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: NY was also packing nursing homes with elderly people who are the most vulnerable to it. Michigan did too, and the nursing homes here are still a disaster. Pretty much everything the state government has its hand on here is a disaster. If there was ever a case study in blowing up the system and starting over, Michigan is probably top of the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 hours ago, FordBuyer said: Then pay the worker a $500+ bonus to get vaccinated. It would cost Ford a lot more in downtime if plant becomes infected. You could pay me the sum of Ford's entire yearly revenue for the last 5 years and it still wouldn't be enough. Not gonna happen. Ford has as many plants in Michigan as any of the big 3, possibly more and right now we lead the country in cases and there hasn't been any shutdowns due to covid. With that information it's probably safe to infer A. It's probably not spreading on the shop floor and B. The people that are getting it are quarantining and taking the precautions they’re supposed to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 21 hours ago, jpd80 said: It’s kinda surreal looking at America from safe little Australia that’s virtually virus free, so y’all hurry up get vaccinated and be safe, earn lots of bucks and come for a holiday. I'd like to go down under. Never been! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintguy Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 21 hours ago, jpd80 said: It’s kinda surreal looking at America from safe little Australia that’s virtually virus free, so y’all hurry up get vaccinated and be safe, earn lots of bucks and come for a holiday. If I recall you can't climb a wall, swim a river or step some imaginary line to get into Australia. High compliance by citizenry in giving up firearms and obeying speed limits. So I can well imagine the lockdown working. In the USA, not as much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: The people that are getting it are quarantining and taking the precautions they’re supposed to. Does Ford provide plant employees with a Return to Work playbook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 53 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I'd like to go down under. Never been! Yeah, I would go too if I didn't have to sit in a plane for 13+ hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: You could pay me the sum of Ford's entire yearly revenue for the last 5 years and it still wouldn't be enough. Not gonna happen. Ford has as many plants in Michigan as any of the big 3, possibly more and right now we lead the country in cases and there hasn't been any shutdowns due to covid. With that information it's probably safe to infer A. It's probably not spreading on the shop floor and B. The people that are getting it are quarantining and taking the precautions they’re supposed to. It’s probably not necessary for everyone to be vaccinated but a good portion would help prevent any future spread. You’re absolutely right about social distancing and quarantining infected people as it’s still possible to be infected after being vaccinated, so those thinking get the jab and drop the mask are not correct in their thinking. I think more people will come on board with vaccination at a later stage, some will never agree and that’s OK too. Edited April 20, 2021 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintguy Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Will offering the vaccine to employees help indemnify Ford from lawsuits involving "causing" exposure and contracting COVID 19? Know people on both sides of vaccine choice. Being only approved for "emergency" use, very much a my body, my choice situation. I'm older, have a condition that may make me more at risk. Also looking to travel. My choice was yes. If I were 21 again? Not a certainty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 hours ago, rperez817 said: Does Ford provide plant employees with a Return to Work playbook? Not a physical handbook or anything but there's a process, yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Acceptance rate of being vaccinated will be low until full approval is given. And even then, I don’t expect the acceptance rate to be much higher than a flu shot. Young healthy folks just don’t get very sick from it statistically. It will be hard to justify getting something with minimal benefit for those folks. Particularly when they know many people that were in rough shape from the vaccine. How many days of lost work due to side effects? Ford is doing the right thing to make it easy for employees to get vaccinated. Eliminate the excuse of having to find an appointment time and likely missing work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, slemke said: Acceptance rate of being vaccinated will be low until full approval is given. And even then, I don’t expect the acceptance rate to be much higher than a flu shot. Young healthy folks just don’t get very sick from it statistically. It will be hard to justify getting something with minimal benefit for those folks. Particularly when they know many people that were in rough shape from the vaccine. How many days of lost work due to side effects? Ford is doing the right thing to make it easy for employees to get vaccinated. Eliminate the excuse of having to find an appointment time and likely missing work. Young healthy folks do get sick from COVID, especially when spikes a severe immune response. that’s the thing, it’s real lottery as to who gets sick enough to need hospital and oxygen, old and those with underlying problems are priority but there’s also those who you think wouldn’t get sick can and do. Edited April 21, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Young healthy folks do get sick from COVID, especially when spikes a severe immune response. that’s the thing, it’s real lottery as to who gets sick enough to need hospital and oxygen, old and those with underlying problems are priority but there’s also those who you think wouldn’t get sick can and do. It is rare, though, in the young healthy folks based on the hospitalization and death data I have seen. Rare enough that many are willing to gamble. Ironically the person in my dept that wished he would get it just to get immunity ended up getting it and was in pretty rough shape for a couple weeks. Not hospitalized, but vastly diminished lung capacity. Another coworker barely slowed down. Vastly different outcomes for different people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 hours ago, slemke said: It is rare, though, in the young healthy folks based on the hospitalization and death data I have seen. Rare enough that many are willing to gamble. Ironically the person in my dept that wished he would get it just to get immunity ended up getting it and was in pretty rough shape for a couple weeks. Not hospitalized, but vastly diminished lung capacity. Another coworker barely slowed down. Vastly different outcomes for different people. And that’s my point, you just don’t know how people react to it and sometimes people don’t go to hospital but end up suffering all kinds of problems for ages after. the great news is that so far, 80% of folks over 65 and 50% of folks over 18 are now vaccinated so in the next couple of weeks, there should be strong reductions in daily hospitalisation and deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 20 hours ago, silvrsvt said: NY was also packing nursing homes with elderly people who are the most vulnerable to it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56091682 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/nyregion/nursing-homes-deaths-coronavirus.html Then I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that COVID deaths might have been over reported due to way our healthcare system works-You could have had a heart attack and a COVID test was administered and you where postive…they would say you died of COVID. The amount of flu deaths this past flu season was super low or was never reported (at least from what I've seen, but I haven't dug into it at all) You could also make the argument that very few people die of cancer as people usually die from organ failure and damage. The people who had other health issues may not have lived a normal life, but the COVID probably tipped the row of dominos for them and they would have probably have lived longer if they didn't get it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 2 hours ago, atomcat68 said: You could also make the argument that very few people die of cancer as people usually die from organ failure and damage. The people who had other health issues may not have lived a normal life, but the COVID probably tipped the row of dominos for them and they would have probably have lived longer if they didn't get it. Now with over 12 months of data, it’s easy to see that the deaths from COVID have been mostly in addition to deaths from other causes and not just transposing deaths under another cause. Each night, I say a little pray for you guys across the water and I know that you’ll find your feet and become that powerhouse again, get everyone back in a job and let the economy rip for a few years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESP08 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) On 4/19/2021 at 1:00 PM, FordBuyer said: Great news, but in my world every Ford employee should be required to be vaccinated to continue employment. Sad Edited April 21, 2021 by ESP08 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESP08 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 On 4/19/2021 at 4:31 PM, FordBuyer said: One still has to wonder why America leads the world in Covid cases and death. Both India and China have a lot more population than U.S. And we lead the world in gun violence also. Maybe dysfunctional Brazil will eventually pass us in Covid deaths, but for now we lead the world. You believe Communist China's propaganda, that's cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 5 hours ago, jpd80 said: Now with over 12 months of data, it’s easy to see that the deaths from COVID have been mostly in addition to deaths from other causes and not just transposing deaths under another cause. That’s not necessarily true. Our population is growing and aging. On a per capita basis, our death rate has been growing every year since 2011. For 2020, the death rate increased 1.19%. That’s lower than the increase in 2019, which was 1.29%. On a percentage basis, it’s the lowest increase since 2014 (1.02%). FYI: The death rate in the USA had a mostly downward trend from 1950 through 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 16 hours ago, jpd80 said: Young healthy folks do get sick from COVID, especially when spikes a severe immune response. that’s the thing, it’s real lottery as to who gets sick enough to need hospital and oxygen, old and those with underlying problems are priority but there’s also those who you think wouldn’t get sick can and do. Very true......millions of long haulers and many are young and were in good health and shape before coming down with it. As for side affects from shots, I had a very achy arm for a couple days and some fatigue for a week or so. No affects after second shot, and I'm an older male. I highly recommend getting the shot. Vaccinations are important for public health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 hours ago, ESP08 said: You believe Communist China's propaganda, that's cute. I believe in data. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: I believe in data. Key word YOU " believe " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: I believe in data. Ford Motor Company and UAW do too. They specifically mentioned CDC guidance that "getting vaccinated in combination with other recommendations issued results in the best protection against COVID-19" and are actively encouraging UAW represented Ford employees to get vaccinated if medically able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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