Ford CEO Jim Farley Says Build To Order Paradigm Is Company’s Future

[fuzzymoomoo]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Stopping to recharge for 25 minutes every 2 hours is damned inconvenient.

Not if you have kids. Must just be me, I've never really been that travel as far as I can as fast as I can guy. I don't mind stopping. 

[sullynd]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

Stopping to recharge for 25 minutes every 2 hours is damned inconvenient.

I’m pretty sure I didn’t say anything like that. 

[ice-capades]

12 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

Nope.  Modern day rebates started back in 1975.  Read this NYT piece from 1981.  

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/18/business/gm-and-ford-offer-cash-rebates-that-are-largest-ever-for-industry.html

 

Okay. Thanks.

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, sullynd said:

I’m pretty sure I didn’t say anything like that. 

Not even sure how that math even works out. 
 

The lowest end Mach E can go 230 miles, 80% is 184 miles, not including any power regained from braking. 
 

Going by that it’s almost impossible to do 80 miles in a hour, you have at least three hours or more of driving time before worrying about recharging 

[sullynd]

48 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Not even sure how that math even works out. 
 

The lowest end Mach E can go 230 miles, 80% is 184 miles, not including any power regained from braking. 
 

Going by that it’s almost impossible to do 80 miles in a hour, you have at least three hours or more of driving time before worrying about recharging 

And for a long trip there is no reason to not start at 100%. Highest I’ve gotten on my Mach-E (Premium AWD ER battery) is 310 miles on a full charge, but that’s when commuting into the city.  It’s rated at 270 and that’s pretty typical of what I see on longer drives. That’s almost three and a half hours. During that period I’ll stop for fifteen minutes once or twice, each time getting around 20% which is another 60ish miles per charge. That’s almost 400 miles in one day.  Charge up overnight at your destination and you’re back at 100%, rinse, repeat.
 

I find it hard to believe on a 400 mile trip you’re not stopping somewhere to eat. Charging once for 30+ minutes gets you even further.

 

Im a big fan of road trips. My wife and I drove out to Mount Rushmore, in November, for a weekend, when we were first dating (950 miles each way) - I rented a car for that trip, it was cheap, and putting nearly 2000 miles on my car wasn’t worth it.  How many 500+ mile trips do you do in a year?  I’ve spent less than $50 on electricity total in the 2,300 miles I’ve driven my Mach-E.  The regular savings would easily cover the rental for the one off longer trips, or trips where chargers are not convenient. 

[fordmantpw]

4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Not if you have kids. Must just be me, I've never really been that travel as far as I can as fast as I can guy. I don't mind stopping. 

 

Same here.  When travelling we normally stop about every 2-2.5 hours.  With the fifth wheel in tow, every other stop is a fuel stop (unless it's West through Kansas, then EVERY stop is a fuel stop).  It's bad for your health to sit for much longer than that without getting up anyway.

[CurtisH]

3 hours ago, sullynd said:

I’m pretty sure I didn’t say anything like that. 

You said you usually charge from 40% to 80% in about 20 minutes.  The best Mach E can go 300 miles.  If you’re only using 40% of the battery, that’s about 120 miles.  Maybe I misunderstood what you said, but I thought you meant that you were stopping every 100-120 miles to recharge.  That is what I thought was inconvenient. 

[akirby]

12 minutes ago, CurtisH said:

You said you usually charge from 40% to 80% in about 20 minutes.  The best Mach E can go 300 miles.  If you’re only using 40% of the battery, that’s about 120 miles.  Maybe I misunderstood what you said, but I thought you meant that you were stopping every 100-120 miles to recharge.  That is what I thought was inconvenient. 

Thats what I thought too.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, sullynd said:

And for a long trip there is no reason to not start at 100%. Highest I’ve gotten on my Mach-E (Premium AWD ER battery) is 310 miles on a full charge, but that’s when commuting into the city.  It’s rated at 270 and that’s pretty typical of what I see on longer drives. That’s almost three and a half hours. During that period I’ll stop for fifteen minutes once or twice, each time getting around 20% which is another 60ish miles per charge. That’s almost 400 miles in one day.  Charge up overnight at your destination and you’re back at 100%, rinse, repeat.
 

I find it hard to believe on a 400 mile trip you’re not stopping somewhere to eat. Charging once for 30+ minutes gets you even further.

 

Im a big fan of road trips. My wife and I drove out to Mount Rushmore, in November, for a weekend, when we were first dating (950 miles each way) - I rented a car for that trip, it was cheap, and putting nearly 2000 miles on my car wasn’t worth it.  How many 500+ mile trips do you do in a year?  I’ve spent less than $50 on electricity total in the 2,300 miles I’ve driven my Mach-E.  The regular savings would easily cover the rental for the one off longer trips, or trips where chargers are not convenient. 

I’d be fine with only stopping a couple of times for 15-20 minutes.  But when you get to your destination you’re going to have to charge for at least a couple of hours and it’s likely that has to be done at a public charger until more condos and hotels have chargers.  And then charge again before leaving.   If people are using the charger that 15 minute stop might turn into 30-60 minutes and that 2 hour full recharge might be 4 hours.  

 

I’m not saying it can’t be done but for me personally right now I find that very inconvenient especially having to spend a few hours at a public charger while on vacation.  In a few years when we have more chargers and faster charging it will be fine.

[akirby]

And don’t forget cold weather reduces range.

[atomcat68]

20 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

It was really started by General Motors in 1986.

I remember it being Chrysler. I remember the Chrysler?Plymouth radio ads in the early 80's with a frog in the background croaking "Rebate rebate rebate" instead of "ribbet" while the narrator talked.

[sullynd]

13 hours ago, sullynd said:

I’d rather stop for 10-15 minutes and get what that gives me, maybe twice, and then charge fully at my destination. 

Here’s what I said. 

[CurtisH]

33 minutes ago, akirby said:

I’d be fine with only stopping a couple of times for 15-20 minutes.  But when you get to your destination you’re going to have to charge for at least a couple of hours and it’s likely that has to be done at a public charger until more condos and hotels have chargers.  And then charge again before leaving.   If people are using the charger that 15 minute stop might turn into 30-60 minutes and that 2 hour full recharge might be 4 hours.  

 

I’m not saying it can’t be done but for me personally right now I find that very inconvenient especially having to spend a few hours at a public charger while on vacation.  In a few years when we have more chargers and faster charging it will be fine.

This is pretty much my opinion.  We will be replacing our Edge, probably next year.  That is the car that we take on trips.  If charging stations were as prevalent and gas stations,  I would consider a Mach E.  However, I find the current conditions inconvenient.  So, it looks like our next vehicle will still be an ICE vehicle, possibly a hybrid. 

[sullynd]

49 minutes ago, akirby said:

I’d be fine with only stopping a couple of times for 15-20 minutes.  But when you get to your destination you’re going to have to charge for at least a couple of hours and it’s likely that has to be done at a public charger until more condos and hotels have chargers.  And then charge again before leaving.   If people are using the charger that 15 minute stop might turn into 30-60 minutes and that 2 hour full recharge might be 4 hours.  

 

I’m not saying it can’t be done but for me personally right now I find that very inconvenient especially having to spend a few hours at a public charger while on vacation.  In a few years when we have more chargers and faster charging it will be fine.

Ever been to an Electrify America station?  There are 8-12 stalls typically (though currently one is CHAdeMO they’ve said they’re discontinuing that) The most I’ve seen at one were three cars (two ID.4 and my Mach-E). 
 

Here’s the hotel I’m at today.  There are five EV chargers (1 HC).  My car (If I had it - I’m in a rental [Work trip]) would be fully charged overnight even if fully depleted, and these chargers are free.  The other two hotels in the area have chargers too. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by sullynd

[akirby]

1 hour ago, sullynd said:

Ever been to an Electrify America station?  There are 8-12 stalls typically (though currently one is CHAdeMO they’ve said they’re discontinuing that) The most I’ve seen at one were three cars (two ID.4 and my Mach-E). 
 

Here’s the hotel I’m at today.  There are five EV chargers (1 HC).  My car (If I had it - I’m in a rental [Work trip]) would be fully charged overnight even if fully depleted, and these chargers are free.  The other two hotels in the area have chargers too. 

 

Well we’re going to rural South Ga for thanksgiving.  The nearest charger is the WalMart in Cordele which is 75 miles away.  3 stalls.  There are no chargers at the hotel or anywhere else nearby.  So that’s 150 miles round trip which means I would need to fully charge in Cordele and not drive more than 120 miles locally.  And then recharge again at Walmart in Cordele before heading North.  

 

Like I said when there are more/faster chargers available including rural areas, hotels, etc I’ll consider it.

[sullynd]

The Walmart In Cordele has four high speed (150kw) CCS stations - it’s Electrify America. In addition there are chargers at the Fairfield Inn and Suites and the Holiday Inn Express in Cordele.  There are a lot more options in Tifton, including Tesla Superchargers, which will be available to non Tesla vehicles this year.  Tifton is 40 miles from Cordele and Warner Robbins (50 miles) has a lot more options too.  How often are you making this trip? A couple times a month?  As noted, for the one off trips that electric doesn’t work (seems it could work for Cordele) rent a car. 

[silvrsvt]

The thing I find kind of curious is that Electrify America doesn't have much of a presence in my area-I have drive at least 30-40 minutes to get the closest charger going by their maps. It looks like they might be building two more local, but still at least 20 minute ride or so. I know one local Ford dealership has charging stations, but the one closest my house I"m unsure of nor do I know if the dealership I'm getting my Bronco has them...I'll look when ever it shows up. 

We have the demographics-around 1.2 Million people between the two counties I live in/near, my county is in the top 1.2% of income and there is 3-4 Tesla SuperCharging stations with in 20 minute ride of my house.  

[HotRunrGuy]

3 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Same here.  When travelling we normally stop about every 2-2.5 hours.  With the fifth wheel in tow, every other stop is a fuel stop (unless it's West through Kansas, then EVERY stop is a fuel stop).  It's bad for your health to sit for much longer than that without getting up anyway.

 

After dealing with PE's/blood clots a few years ago, I'm on the same mandate to stop every 2 or 2-1/2 hours and walk around.  Made a quick trip from Chicago to the DFW TX area last week, sure does add time to the trip.

 

Anyone seeing states adding charging stations to rest areas/oasis's?

 

HRG

[akirby]

3 hours ago, sullynd said:

The Walmart In Cordele has four high speed (150kw) CCS stations - it’s Electrify America. In addition there are chargers at the Fairfield Inn and Suites and the Holiday Inn Express in Cordele.  There are a lot more options in Tifton, including Tesla Superchargers, which will be available to non Tesla vehicles this year.  Tifton is 40 miles from Cordele and Warner Robbins (50 miles) has a lot more options too.  How often are you making this trip? A couple times a month?  As noted, for the one off trips that electric doesn’t work (seems it could work for Cordele) rent a car. 

I didn’t say it couldn’t be done, I said it wasn’t convenient enough for ME.  It doesn’t matter how many times I go.

[sullynd]

2 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Anyone seeing states adding charging stations to rest areas/oasis's?

 

HRG

I’ve charged at rest areas on I-80 in Indiana. 

[RedHoncho01]

21 hours ago, akirby said:

What made you switch so soon?  I ask because we’ll be replacing our MKX in a year or so and I’m leaning towards a Corsair.

As much as I love my Nautilus, it loves the gas pumps.  I have the reserve with AWD and 2.7L engine.  The gas mileage is around 18 - 18.5 in the city and 22 - 23 on the highway even using cruise control.

 

Also, my Nautilus is currently worth as a trade in nearly what I paid for it in March 2020 and has 11,000 more miles on it than when I purchased it.

 

I ordered the Corsair Grand Touring which is a PHEV.  Most of my driving is in the city so I should be able to run my errands on all electric power.  When I take long trips, the estimated MPG is 33 combined city/highway.  I configured my Corsair exactly the same as my Nautilus with the exception of the engine and transmission.  The Grand Touring has AWD standard, 2.5L Atkison cycle engine and 14.4 KWh battery pack with an estimated 28 miles all electric.  The transmission is an electronic CVT.  There is no transaxle to the rear wheels.  Instead, there is an electric motor to drive the rear wheels that is unique to the Corsair.

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Anyone seeing states adding charging stations to rest areas/oasis's?

 

Commercial EV charging stations are not permitted at state operated rest areas along interstate highways, except for certain toll roads such as Pennsylvania Turnpike and Illinois Tollway. This rule comes from 23 U.S. Code § 111. 23 U.S. Code § 111 - Agreements relating to use of and access to rights-of-way—Interstate System | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

 

California gets around this by installing EV charging stations at rest areas that do not require any payment by the user. Don't know about other states.

Edited August 2, 2021 by rperez817

[rperez817]

Back to the thread topic, Car and Driver posted an article today with more info about Ford's move to Build-to-Order in the U.S. and in Mexico. Ford Moving toward Build-to-Order, Away from Packed Dealer Lots (caranddriver.com)

 

Ford recently introduced Ford Express Buy, an online-only way to purchase a Ford vehicle in the U.S. For now, the only model you can purchase this way is the Mustang Mach-E, but Ford's president of the Americas and International Markets Group, Kumar Galhotra, told Automotive News last month that the system will expand to other models at some point.

"It's a really exciting way for us to sell vehicles in partnership with our dealers," Galhotra said. "You can start building your vehicle, pricing it, put it in the cart, and you can go all the way to make a transaction. Ford Credit can approve the customer's credit in seconds, and you can make the payment and the dealer can deliver the car to your home."

Using Ford Express Buy is optional for Ford dealers. Ford also has Ford Blue Advantage to sell certified used Ford vehicles online and, in Mexico, there's the Ford Digital Store, which lets people buy a new vehicle 100 percent online.

 

Ford is actually the 1st automaker in Mexico to offer customers a 100% online sales platform for new cars and light trucks.

 

[akirby]

I’m surprised dealers haven’t already filed lawsuits.  Whenever Ford tried this in the past dealers would sue and win even if the dealer still gets the sale.  Maybe they’re seeing the light with reduced inventories and floor plan costs and the ability to build retail orders faster.

[rperez817]

32 minutes ago, akirby said:

I’m surprised dealers haven’t already filed lawsuits.

 

For a manufacturer like Ford encouraging retail sold orders for new vehicles? There's nothing illegal about that.