Rivian's IPO is valued at $80Billion

[rperez817]

Back to Rivian. Rivian is now selling its cargo vans to fleet customers other than Amazon. Pricing starts at $83,000. Rivian Will Now Sell You Its Electric Cargo Van (caranddriver.com)

[Deanh]

11 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Back to Rivian. Rivian is now selling its cargo vans to fleet customers other than Amazon. Pricing starts at $83,000. Rivian Will Now Sell You Its Electric Cargo Van (caranddriver.com)

they are also in financial trouble.....I wonder why they and Amazon nixed the origional deal?......

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

they are also in financial trouble.....I wonder why they and Amazon nixed the origional deal?......

 

As a startup company, Rivian is in good shape financially. They reported a loss last quarter but made "strong progress" to reduce costs and more than doubled revenue compared to 3Q 2022. EX - 99.2 3Q23 Shareholder Letter (rivian.com)

 

Rivian still expects to deliver 100,000 EDV vans to Amazon, the main thing is that Amazon no longer has exclusive rights to that product. Here is what Rivian CEO R.J. Scaringe said during the investor call on Tuesday.

We’ve been working on the exclusivity agreement with Amazon for a while. With that, we’ve been building relationships with a diverse set of commercial operators, and that’s everything from last-mile to retail.

 

Amazon is on board with this. Here is what Amazon transportation unit leader Udit Madan said.

We’ve always said that we want others to benefit from [Rivian’s] technology in the long run because having more electric delivery vehicles on the road is good for our communities and our planet.

[Deanh]

30 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

As a startup company, Rivian is in good shape financially. They reported a loss last quarter but made "strong progress" to reduce costs and more than doubled revenue compared to 3Q 2022. EX - 99.2 3Q23 Shareholder Letter (rivian.com)

 

Rivian still expects to deliver 100,000 EDV vans to Amazon, the main thing is that Amazon no longer has exclusive rights to that product. Here is what Rivian CEO R.J. Scaringe said during the investor call on Tuesday.

 

 

 

Amazon is on board with this. Here is what Amazon transportation unit leader Udit Madan said.

 

 

of course Amazons on board...they own 10% from what I understand....just blows my mind the losses per unit...that cant be sustainable unless they raise cash because they arent earning anything to support the losses...Lucids also up shit creek...

[Captainp4]

Have been seeing the Rivian Amazon vans around here more often, have seen quite a few of the R1T too. Out of any of the "other" BEV startups, I think Rivian is the one that will make it. As someone that bought on the  IPO I hope so lol

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, Captainp4 said:

Have been seeing the Rivian Amazon vans around here more often, have seen quite a few of the R1T too. Out of any of the "other" BEV startups, I think Rivian is the one that will make it. As someone that bought on the  IPO I hope so lol

 

I was up in NY and saw like half of dozen of them on I-95...I've finally seen one in my area too. 

[Deanh]

14 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I was up in NY and saw like half of dozen of them on I-95...I've finally seen one in my area too. 

If its specifcicationsare any good theres not much competition at all....only issue would be servicing......

[Captainp4]

17 hours ago, Deanh said:

If its specifcicationsare any good theres not much competition at all....only issue would be servicing......

Usually not much to service on a BEV

[Deanh]

25 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

Usually not much to service on a BEV

explains all the Teslas I see on flatbeds right?, granted I dont know the reasoning......but its a pretty common sight around here ( that said I would say a lot would be driver error based on their driving habits which arent too stellar, I think the crazy Prius drivers just moved upscale )......and in Rivians case...how many service centers are there?...

is Tesla a high maintenance car?

 

 

Yes, Tesla vehicles are quite expensive to fix. According to RepairPal, the average yearly Tesla maintenance cost is about $832 per year. The average among all car brands was a much lower $652 per year.Oct 21, 2023

.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Deanh

[silvrsvt]

54 minutes ago, Deanh said:

Yes, Tesla vehicles are quite expensive to fix. According to RepairPal, the average yearly Tesla maintenance cost is about $832 per year. The average among all car brands was a much lower $652 per year.Oct 21, 2023.

 

I've always wondered about the criteria they use to measure maintenance...because the numbers I've seen are exceedingly high.

 

With that said-if you follow Fords recommendation for oil changes, which is something like every 10K miles or so, that would work out to about two oil changes a  year at around $80-120 bucks a shot at a Ford dealership. Average person drives about 14K a year. 

 

So with the elimination of oil changes and most other fluids, what exactly happens on a Tesla at service? Just rotate the tires? Doesn't add up. 

[Deanh]

31 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I've always wondered about the criteria they use to measure maintenance...because the numbers I've seen are exceedingly high.

 

With that said-if you follow Fords recommendation for oil changes, which is something like every 10K miles or so, that would work out to about two oil changes a  year at around $80-120 bucks a shot at a Ford dealership. Average person drives about 14K a year. 

 

So with the elimination of oil changes and most other fluids, what exactly happens on a Tesla at service? Just rotate the tires? Doesn't add up. 

yep...lot of unspoken variables there...I dont spend that much on mine for sure, so no idea. The EV owners I have sold/ know actually maintain their vehicles very well, the gripes I hear are mostly electronic, with necessary re-flashes ( but ICE arent immune their either ) and tire wear which is most likely weight related and tire choice. But we do service a lot of them for sure...sadly I think mostly for little gremlins rather than routine maintenence. The Teslas costs may reflect hourly charges, I have heard that any time they do need maintenence the charges are comparitively high...I would guess those costs are averaged ovber say 5-6 years?....theres and A/C unit that requires a dessicant bag every 4 years, ( and that may be $$$ ) an in cabin  particulate filter and tires may be part of the equation so maybe thats how it averages out 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Deanh

[ice-capades]

31 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I've always wondered about the criteria they use to measure maintenance...because the numbers I've seen are exceedingly high.

 

With that said-if you follow Fords recommendation for oil changes, which is something like every 10K miles or so, that would work out to about two oil changes a  year at around $80-120 bucks a shot at a Ford dealership. Average person drives about 14K a year. 

 

So with the elimination of oil changes and most other fluids, what exactly happens on a Tesla at service? Just rotate the tires? Doesn't add up. 

 

Ford Service Special a/k/a "The Works" at $54.95

 

[Deanh]

8 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

Ford Service Special a/k/a "The Works" at $54.95

 

I do that every 5k on mine....all 3....

[Gurgeh]

If service costs include fixing up a car that was in a crash then I can see Tesla coming in more expensive. Lots of articles have been written about how hugely more expensive the latest EVs are (compared to traditional ICE vehicles) to fix up after a crash, leaving lots of them totaled for fairly minor encounters due to the number of expensive sensors are embedded in the body. Of course, even high-end ICE vehicles are trending that direction now as well, but overall I expect there remains a large discrepancy. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Gurgeh

[Deanh]

23 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

If service costs include fixing up a car that was in a crash then I can see Tesla coming in more expensive. Lots of articles have been written about how hugely more expensive the latest EVs are (compared to traditional ICE vehicles) to fix up after a crash, leaving lots of them totaled for fairly minor encounters due to the number of expensive sensors are embedded in the body. Of course, even high-end ICE vehicles are trending that direction now as well, but overall I expect there remains a large discrepancy. 

I dont think crash repair is considered part of maintenence, however , it DOES explain why EVs are more expensive to insure...( that and rightly or wrongly, fear of them bursting into flames...and thats straight form the horse mouth )  

Edited November 10, 2023 by Deanh

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I've always wondered about the criteria they use to measure maintenance...because the numbers I've seen are exceedingly high.

 

With that said-if you follow Fords recommendation for oil changes, which is something like every 10K miles or so, that would work out to about two oil changes a  year at around $80-120 bucks a shot at a Ford dealership. Average person drives about 14K a year. 

 

So with the elimination of oil changes and most other fluids, what exactly happens on a Tesla at service? Just rotate the tires? Doesn't add up. 

 

Yeah, I didn't understand that cost either.  Wiper blades and such don't cost that much.

 

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

yep...lot of unspoken variables there...I dont spend that much on mine for sure, so no idea. The EV owners I have sold/ know actually maintain their vehicles very well, the gripes I hear are mostly electronic, with necessary re-flashes ( but ICE arent immune their either ) and tire wear which is most likely weight related and tire choice. But we do service a lot of them for sure...sadly I think mostly for little gremlins rather than routine maintenence. The Teslas costs may reflect hourly charges, I have heard that any time they do need maintenence the charges are comparitively high...I would guess those costs are averaged ovber say 5-6 years?....theres and A/C unit that requires a dessicant bag every 4 years, ( and that may be $$$ ) an in cabin  particulate filter and tires may be part of the equation so maybe thats how it averages out 

 

Wouldn't gremlins fall under warranty?

 

Or are we talking about post-warranty here?

[Deanh]

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, I didn't understand that cost either.  Wiper blades and such don't cost that much.

 

 

Wouldn't gremlins fall under warranty?

 

Or are we talking about post-warranty here?

yes...under warranty...theres some fuzzy math in the maintennce claims that probably have a valid answer and MAY be based over the projected lifetime of the vehcile...I have heard that routine service on teslas is rather expensive for what is done....been relayed a few times when we take them in on trade...

[akirby]

4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I've always wondered about the criteria they use to measure maintenance...because the numbers I've seen are exceedingly high.

 

With that said-if you follow Fords recommendation for oil changes, which is something like every 10K miles or so, that would work out to about two oil changes a  year at around $80-120 bucks a shot at a Ford dealership. Average person drives about 14K a year. 

 

So with the elimination of oil changes and most other fluids, what exactly happens on a Tesla at service? Just rotate the tires? Doesn't add up. 

With Ford at least the normal dealer service includes a lot of “inspections” per the owners manual and that adds up if you just let them do it.

 

I suspect Tesla does battery and other diagnostics, plus you still have to change the blinker fluid.

[jpd80]

5 hours ago, Deanh said:

explains all the Teslas I see on flatbeds right?, granted I dont know the reasoning......but its a pretty common sight around here ( that said I would say a lot would be driver error based on their driving habits which arent too stellar, I think the crazy Prius drivers just moved upscale )......and in Rivians case...how many service centers are there?...

is Tesla a high maintenance car?

 

 

Yes, Tesla vehicles are quite expensive to fix. According to RepairPal, the average yearly Tesla maintenance cost is about $832 per year. The average among all car brands was a much lower $652 per year.Oct 21, 2023

.

If the 12 volt battery goes flat, owners can’t open the frunk to access the flat 12V battery

but there’s a cheap hack for doing that and avoid being towed.

 

 

 

[jpd80]

With regards to  Rivian,

it is treading water and I doubt it will survive once all the cash reserves dry up.

So I’m glad that Ford cashed out and put the money to better use elsewhere.

Look for Amazon to cash out quietly in the next year or so once they get their

van order complete…

Edited November 10, 2023 by jpd80

[Deanh]

10 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

With regards to  Rivian,

it is treading water and I doubt it will survive once all the cash reserves dry up.

So I’m glad that Ford cashed out and put the money to better use elsewhere.

Look for Amazon to cash out quietly in the next year or so once they get their

van order complete…

apparently they have 2 years of cash reserves, but they are losing 33k per unit..so we will see, i think Lucid is in an even more precarious position, then theres Fisker, sigh they ALL jumped on the bandwagon for better or worse, results to be announced at a later date......as for Amazon cashing out...not sure...they own a 10% stake....

[jpd80]

12 minutes ago, Deanh said:

apparently they have 2 years of cash reserves, but they are losing 33k per unit..so we will see, i think Lucid is in an even more precarious position, then theres Fisker, sigh they ALL jumped on the bandwagon for better or worse, results to be announced at a later date......as for Amazon cashing out...not sure...they own a 10% stake....

Amazon invested close to $1.4 billion before the IPO, so with the current market cap,

it’s possible for them to get their money back but if it waits for a collapse, they’ll lose it all.

Money back would go a long way towards paying for the vans ordered, just saying…

Edited November 10, 2023 by jpd80

[Deanh]

10 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Amazon invested close to $1.4 billion before the IPO, so with the current market cap,

it’s possible for them to get their money back but if it waits for a collapse, they’ll lose it all.

Money back would go a long way towards paying for the vans ordered, just saying…

barring the funky headlights on their trucks and SUV which I just cant warm up too, I like the Rivians..starting to see more and more of them...and the vans are most likely a better option than Fords dismal effort...so fingers crossed. Sidebar....had a guy that owns a rental company that bought a Bronco off me, super nice guy, drove in in a Rivian truck...asked him what he thought....LOVED it. But he sold it and kept the Bronco...basiocally staed he was having more fun with it!...nice to hear.

[jpd80]

Random question, would things like Tesla gigacastings be unrepairable in a crash?

Also, heavy side impacts would affect those structural battery packs…..

Edited November 11, 2023 by jpd80

[Deanh]

29 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Random question, would things like Tesla gigacastings be unrepairable in a crash?

Also, heavy side impacts would affect those structural battery packs…..

taking this with a grain as well as this is only based on what Ive read, BUT Volvo has also stated they want to explore the stamping method,but as read....makes manufacturing costs plummet as one stamping could replace 5- 10 or so separate panels currently, so lower manufacturer costs leads to either potentially lower MSRPs, or same MSRP and more profit , but makes insurance costs  rise as repair would require another full stamping, which I would say would be also more expensive  ( with not only the single panels cost but shipping on one huge panel )  and substantially increased repair costs ( instead of having to remove one small panel and its ancilliaries now itbasically 1/2 the car ) so theoretically could make any accident closer to basically being a writeoff from and Insurance Companies standpoint.....

Edited November 11, 2023 by Deanh