Rivian's IPO is valued at $80Billion

[Ford Username]

What one should be looking at is the price earning ratio. Market cap is a consideration but it doesnt tell the whole story. The market is expensive and the bull market can run too much higher. Musk is basically pumping and manipulating the market so he can sell his stock for cash. Watch Tesla's price fall the day after he sells. 

[Captainp4]

7 hours ago, Ford Username said:

What one should be looking at is the price earning ratio. Market cap is a consideration but it doesnt tell the whole story. The market is expensive and the bull market can run too much higher. Musk is basically pumping and manipulating the market so he can sell his stock for cash. Watch Tesla's price fall the day after he sells. 

He's been selling since last week. Dropped a little at first, but seems to be recovering already. RIVN open wasn't pretty this morning though lol

[FordBuyer]

40 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

He's been selling since last week. Dropped a little at first, but seems to be recovering already. RIVN open wasn't pretty this morning though lol

 

The market is so skewed now that it's pretty much meaningless.....worse than the Enron days. It's pretty much a giant bubble ready to pop. 

 

Here we have Ford selling 50,000+ Mach E's already, and over 150,000 orders for the Lightning, and the ability to scale up quickly with over 100 years experience building millions of vehicles. 

 

And who does the market reward....a pipsqueak company with no experience building anything and no proven record. Ford is already outselling all electric vehicle makers other than Tesla. And next year Ford will easily out produce Rivian with the Lightning probably 3 to 1. And I still can't get past the weird AMC front end and lack of physical controls in the interior. The open space behind the rear seats is cool though. That front end though....ughhhh.

[Captainp4]

12 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

The market is so skewed now that it's pretty much meaningless.....worse than the Enron days. It's pretty much a giant bubble ready to pop. 

 

Here we have Ford selling 50,000+ Mach E's already, and over 150,000 orders for the Lightning, and the ability to scale up quickly with over 100 years experience building millions of vehicles. 

 

And who does the market reward....a pipsqueak company with no experience building anything and no proven record. Ford is already outselling all electric vehicle makers other than Tesla. And next year Ford will easily out produce Rivian with the Lightning probably 3 to 1. And I still can't get past the weird AMC front end and lack of physical controls in the interior. The open space behind the rear seats is cool though. That front end though....ughhhh.

Tesla I can kind of understand because of all the other things they do besides cars, but RIVN market cap doesn't make much sense to me. I still think they're the only startup that will eventually compete with TSLA and am going to hold some shares of them through the post IPO dip, but I agree the valuation of some of these companies doesn't make much sense.

[FordBuyer]

12 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

Tesla I can kind of understand because of all the other things they do besides cars, but RIVN market cap doesn't make much sense to me. I still think they're the only startup that will eventually compete with TSLA and am going to hold some shares of them through the post IPO dip, but I agree the valuation of some of these companies doesn't make much sense.

 

Motor Trend didn't get into the details, but alluded to problems with the Lucid Air in its testing. I'm assuming fit and finish problems and electronic glitches. Tesla is still suffering from those problems after years building them. Those buying the first Rivians and Lucids will really be guinea pigs. Another reason for meaningless stock price unless you sell the stock and pay your capital gains tax.

 

Tesla customers seemed to put up with Tesla teething problems, but will Rivian and Lucid put up with those problems when Ford and GM sell hundred of thousands of electrics. Lightning and Lyriq production is only a couple months away. Tesla had the EV market to itself at startup, but not Rivian and Lucid. And Ford has lots of other electrified vehicles to sell that sip little gas. 

 

[rperez817]

22 hours ago, akirby said:

Your obsession with market cap is becoming tiresome.

 

Rivian's market capitalization pre (estimated) and post IPO is the topic of this thread. I don't own RIVN or any other individual company stock, so market cap for those is not something I personally care about.

Edited November 17, 2021 by rperez817

[buddysystem]

sounds like For and Rivian have decided not to build an EV together say s Automotive News

 

[jpd80]

Now that Ford is accelerating its BEV plans, it’s stock could see a nice increase for world weary investors

 

[mackinaw]

2 hours ago, buddysystem said:

sounds like For and Rivian have decided not to build an EV together say s Automotive News

 

The reason, from Automotive News:

 

"......Ford and Rivian have scrapped plans to jointly develop an EV. One of the obstacles is the complexity required to marry another company's electric architecture with embedded software developed in-house by Ford.........."

[jpd80]

Plus the Rivian truck and SUV is mid sized and Ford already has that covered with Explorer and Aviator ( mid sized truck maybe later)

Edited November 19, 2021 by jpd80

[ausrutherford]

Ford has made a killing off its investment, so no worries. 

[rperez817]

19 hours ago, buddysystem said:

sounds like For and Rivian have decided not to build an EV together say s Automotive News

 

 

17 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

The reason, from Automotive News:

 

"......Ford and Rivian have scrapped plans to jointly develop an EV. One of the obstacles is the complexity required to marry another company's electric architecture with embedded software developed in-house by Ford.........."

 

That's a logical technological reason for Ford's decision. It's still sad that collaboration between the 2 companies won't include a jointly developed BEV as originally planned.

 

Hopefully Ford will continue to work closely with Rivian in other ways. Amid the ongoing automotive industry revolution, Ford can benefit greatly by learning and adopting business practices of a 100% BEV startup automaker like Rivian.

[sullynd]

I had hoped Rivian would contract with Ford for service.  I don’t like Teslas service model, but even as awful as it is they have a big head start on Rivian. 

[akirby]

46 minutes ago, sullynd said:

I had hoped Rivian would contract with Ford for service.  I don’t like Teslas service model, but even as awful as it is they have a big head start on Rivian. 

I thought the same thing.  

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

 

That's a logical technological reason for Ford's decision. It's still sad that collaboration between the 2 companies won't include a jointly developed BEV as originally planned.

 

Hopefully Ford will continue to work closely with Rivian in other ways. Amid the ongoing automotive industry revolution, Ford can benefit greatly by learning and adopting business practices of a 100% BEV startup automaker like Rivian.

 

I also read it as "Ford's not as behind as thought" - in that if Ford were so behind in BEVs, they'd be more likely to jump on whatever systems Rivian has just to get in the market.  But clearly they're not, to the point where it's not worth the difficulty of trying to integrate the two systems from the two companies.

[rmc523]

14 minutes ago, akirby said:

I thought the same thing.  

 

It's possible they could, but this recent news would also mean having to install new systems in to accommodate Rivian's tech.

[rperez817]

23 hours ago, sullynd said:

I don’t like Teslas service model, but even as awful as it is they have a big head start on Rivian. 

 

Tesla's and Rivian's service model which is a combination of OTA/remote diagnostics, mobile service, and company owned service centers where necessary, is much better for BEV than traditional dealership service departments. J.D. Power's Service Satisfaction Index Study mentioned this regarding service satisfaction for owners of BEV who visited dealership service departments (in the survey, that consisted primarily of non-Tesla BEV). 2021 Customer Service Index (CSI) Study | J.D. Power (jdpower.com)

 

Quote

Battery-electric vehicle owners less satisfied with service: According to the J.D. Power 2021 Electric Vehicle Experience (EVX) Ownership Study,SM only 54% of battery electric vehicle (BEV) owners indicate they had taken their vehicle in for service in the past 12 months. However, the 2021 CSI Study finds that when they do visit a dealer for service, their overall service satisfaction is 69 points lower than the average customer and 76 points lower for service quality. “BEV owners present a unique challenge for dealers,” Sutton said. “Not only are their vehicles more difficult to service than traditional internal combustion engine vehicles, but also the lower frequency of visits means dealers have fewer chances to make a positive impression on these customers.”

 

Hopefully Ford can learn from Rivian's strategy of OTA/remote diagnostics and mobile service, and maybe share good practices from Rivian's company owned service centers with Ford dealerships.

Edited November 21, 2021 by rperez817

[akirby]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Tesla's and Rivian's service model which is a combination of OTA/remote diagnostics, mobile service, and company owned service centers where necessary, is much better for BEV than traditional dealership service departments.

No high volume mfr can provide factory sales and service without replicating the existing dealer network.  Not to mention state franchise laws that to this point have been ignored or approved exceptions because BEVs are still low volume and don’t compete directly with traditional sales yet.  As volume ramps up they’ll start suing (and win).  Dealers must evolve to sell and service BEVs but to suggest the factory direct model is preferable for mfrs is ridiculous.

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Tesla's and Rivian's service model which is a combination of OTA/remote diagnostics, mobile service, and company owned service centers where necessary, is much better for BEV than traditional dealership service departments. J.D. Power's Service Satisfaction Index Study mentioned this regarding service satisfaction for owners of BEV who visited dealership service departments (in the survey, that consisted primarily of non-Tesla BEV).

 

 

Hopefully Ford can learn from Rivian's strategy of OTA/remote diagnostics and mobile service, and maybe share good practices from Rivian's company owned service centers with Ford dealerships.

 

Did this report (which you didn't link to) explain what was supposedly so terrible about BEV service visits?  Or was it just they were inconvenient even though far less often than a regular/ICE service visit?

[sullynd]

6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Tesla's and Rivian's service model which is a combination of OTA/remote diagnostics, mobile service, and company owned service centers where necessary, is much better for BEV than traditional dealership service departments.

Tesla service is awful and not scalable.  There are twenty Ford stores closer to me than the closest Tesla service center, and I live in a major metro area.

 

if I don’t get good service from one of those twenty I can go to one of the other nineteen. With Tesla you’re screwed.  Need to check the status of your Tesla while in service? Good luck calling someone. 

[rmc523]

4 hours ago, sullynd said:

Tesla service is awful and not scalable.  There are twenty Ford stores closer to me than the closest Tesla service center, and I live in a major metro area.

 

if I don’t get good service from one of those twenty I can go to one of the other nineteen. With Tesla you’re screwed.  Need to check the status of your Tesla while in service? Good luck calling someone. 

 

There are Teslas all over Fort Lauderdale and have been since their debut (FTL also has a dealer for just about every high end brand you can think of too).  One of their first stores/service places was in Dania beach about 10-15 mins away.  Only last year did we "finally" get a Tesla dealer/service center - they took over an empty standalone Best Buy building after the Best Buy relocated.  I paid attention while they were renovating, and they cut a big hole in the front of the building for a garage door, and made the majority of the building - I'd say probably 3/4 - a service center, with only the front portion by the front doors being a showroom.  They have the parking lot filled with all sorts of models.....It's definitely closer to a traditional dealer setup than most of the Tesla store locations.

[sullynd]

 

[akirby]

Server outage.

[sullynd]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Server outage.

That’s happened to Ford too. Fortunately I was still able to get in/start my car using codes. 

[rperez817]

20 hours ago, akirby said:

the factory direct model is preferable for mfrs is ridiculous.

 

Ridiculously smart, at least for startups like Rivian. Maybe traditional franchised car dealerships will evolve quickly and take BEV sales and service more seriously. But nowadays, there's a huge disconnect between BEV customer expectations and what dealerships provide (both sales and service departments).

 

Rivian is definitely doing the right thing with its factory direct model. If and when dealership business models change to better accommodate BEV, Rivian may consider working with them for sales and service. Maybe in combination with factory direct, like what some telecom and consumer electronics companies do.