slemke Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 7 hours ago, Deanh said: yep, that's a tad ludicrous...but I wonder if youd see as many addendums if there was an acceptable profit margin in the vehicle to begin with...and Ford wasn't witnessing Private parties e-baying their ordered units for up to $120k....perhaps a disclosure forbidding sale for two years ala GT should have been implemented.... It isn’t the profit margin, it is the amount customers are willing to pay that leads to the addendums. The profit margin comes from adding the various doc fees, financing, dealer prep, and dealer options such as fabric protection and rust proofing. The couple purchasing a car in the movie “Fargo” comes to mind. The customer experience was much better at the Lincoln dealership, even though it was under the same corporate parent as the Ford dealer. Worst customer experience I had was at a Mazda dealership that wanted to add an addendum to the price of a car that didn’t even have the options I wanted. I went across town to another Mazda dealership that did have the car I wanted in stock and sold it for s-plan pricing. It was a week or two later…. The original dealer was miffed that I didn’t buy from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarheels23 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/11/2021 at 1:16 PM, nate1 said: Direct sales aside, I think today there's a knowledge gap with the dealers and EV/PHEVs. I contacted a dealer about ordering an Escape PHEV and in our conversation I mentioned I wasn't ready to go full EV and the sales person tried to tell me the Escape PHEV was full electric and I was making a mistake. I don't know what Ford can do from an education standpoint given the independence of dealers but something needs to happen. I'd expect dealers to at least know the basics of ICE vs EV vs PHEV. Hopefully my experience is a unique one. I think the 'sales expert' you talked to might have meant to say if you only drive it short distances and then REcharge 'it', it is all 'electric' hahahahahah snark implied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 12 hours ago, slemke said: It isn’t the profit margin, it is the amount customers are willing to pay that leads to the addendums. The profit margin comes from adding the various doc fees, financing, dealer prep, and dealer options such as fabric protection and rust proofing. The couple purchasing a car in the movie “Fargo” comes to mind. The customer experience was much better at the Lincoln dealership, even though it was under the same corporate parent as the Ford dealer. Worst customer experience I had was at a Mazda dealership that wanted to add an addendum to the price of a car that didn’t even have the options I wanted. I went across town to another Mazda dealership that did have the car I wanted in stock and sold it for s-plan pricing. It was a week or two later…. The original dealer was miffed that I didn’t buy from them. no offence...but you can actually decline any "add ons"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, akirby said: So why are they doing audits if they don’t care? much like our political horizon, talk is cheap, a practice Ford participates in a lot ( turn and earn was one I recall vividly ) Ill wait to see actual RESULTS...and so far the Bigger volume dealers have been given a hall pass, the smaller dealers have been utilized and made examples of..... Edited December 30, 2021 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Deanh said: no offence...but you can actually decline any "add ons"..... Some dealers make mop and glo (paint protection) and other things like glass etching mandatory, or at least already included so it’s difficult to get them to remove it. I think you’re a little sheltered from what happens at other dealers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, akirby said: Some dealers make mop and glo (paint protection) and other things like glass etching mandatory, or at least already included so it’s difficult to get them to remove it. I think you’re a little sheltered from what happens at other dealers. I believe that state laws in many cases prevent a Dealer from being able to force a customer to pay for add-ons installed on a vehicle that the customer doesn't want. Unfortunately, customers get suckered into paying for the add-ons because they're already installed and don't realize they can refuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ice-capades said: I believe that state laws in many cases prevent a Dealer from being able to force a customer to pay for add-ons installed on a vehicle that the customer doesn't want. Unfortunately, customers get suckered into paying for the add-ons because they're already installed and don't realize they can refuse. A dealer who does that is a deal breaker to me period. The trust factor is already gone. So I just move on. Nowadays it's very easy to buy a vehicle hundreds of miles away and have it delivered to your door no cost. My dealer salesman delivered our Escape to our garage, spent an hour with us going over it and Ford Pass, and brought us gifts also. Mullinax will deliver no cost anywhere in FL, and FL stretches 480 miles North to South. Lots of good dealers out there....just have to research and get a little lucky. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: A dealer who does that is a deal breaker to me period. The trust factor is already gone. So I just move on. Nowadays it's very easy to buy a vehicle hundreds of miles away and have it delivered to your door no cost. My dealer salesman delivered our Escape to our garage, spent an hour with us going over it and Ford Pass, and brought us gifts also. Mullinax will deliver no cost anywhere in FL, and FL stretches 480 miles North to South. Lots of good dealers out there....just have to research and get a little lucky. The dealer I bought my Flex from delivered a car to North Carolina once. I know the porter who drove it down there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 4 hours ago, FordBuyer said: My dealer salesman delivered our Escape to our garage, spent an hour with us going over it and Ford Pass, and brought us gifts also. Good to hear FordBuyer sir. Our salesman at Autonation Ford Fort Worth did the same things for delivery of my wife's Mustang Mach-E. Store to door delivery, HV battery fully charged before delivery, vehicle sanitization, demonstration of features (including FordPass), and tips on vehicle charging at home and at public charging stations were all part of the deal. I think Autonation as a company has done a decent job with the EV transition, though like all dealerships they have stiff competition from the direct to consumer model used by Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, etc. Hopefully the incumbent automakers' own transition to 100% electric vehicles will help their franchised dealers compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 7 hours ago, akirby said: Some dealers make mop and glo (paint protection) and other things like glass etching mandatory, or at least already included so it’s difficult to get them to remove it. I think you’re a little sheltered from what happens at other dealers. actually quite the opposite...Southern Cal is one of, if not THE largest base of Ford Dealerships in the country.....maybe its a demographic thing...I am NOT attune with what happens out of State, to that Ill fess...seriously, etch a glass and mop and glo take me back 20 years, the only time I hear those mentioned here is in a satirical manner.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 (edited) On 12/30/2021 at 4:07 PM, rperez817 said: Good to hear FordBuyer sir. Our salesman at Autonation Ford Fort Worth did the same things for delivery of my wife's Mustang Mach-E. Store to door delivery, HV battery fully charged before delivery, vehicle sanitization, demonstration of features (including FordPass), and tips on vehicle charging at home and at public charging stations were all part of the deal. I think Autonation as a company has done a decent job with the EV transition, though like all dealerships they have stiff competition from the direct to consumer model used by Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, etc. Hopefully the incumbent automakers' own transition to 100% electric vehicles will help their franchised dealers compete. I think that's awesome customer service...sadly, I don't have the time or the man power most of the time...I try, but if I cant and the customer requires it we hire a driving service...and usually have to charge for it. Oddly enough, customers generally understand and either don't mind or make the effort to actually come in....and since we seem to be the only dealer around not charging stupid addendums, 99% of the customers don't mind making the effort. Edited January 3, 2022 by Deanh 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 6 hours ago, ice-capades said: I believe that state laws in many cases prevent a Dealer from being able to force a customer to pay for add-ons installed on a vehicle that the customer doesn't want. Unfortunately, customers get suckered into paying for the add-ons because they're already installed and don't realize they can refuse. flip side of that is it can be conditioned to be part of the Sale....right now with the shortages the dealer most likely has multiple buyers for basically every car ( barring Edges...market has dropped like a stone on those suckers ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 5 hours ago, FordBuyer said: A dealer who does that is a deal breaker to me period. The trust factor is already gone. So I just move on. Nowadays it's very easy to buy a vehicle hundreds of miles away and have it delivered to your door no cost. My dealer salesman delivered our Escape to our garage, spent an hour with us going over it and Ford Pass, and brought us gifts also. Mullinax will deliver no cost anywhere in FL, and FL stretches 480 miles North to South. Lots of good dealers out there....just have to research and get a little lucky. When I was working, I leased Rangers for several years. The salesman at my local dealership would bend over backwards to find me the vehicle I needed. One time he found the Ranger I wanted in Sault Ste. Marie. Another time, he traded a dealer in Charlevoix a Thunderbird (2003?) for the Ranger I wanted. Mind you, all of this is on Z-plan. There are good dealers out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 12 hours ago, Deanh said: no offence...but you can actually decline any "add ons"..... What part of I went to a different dealership that treated me better did you not understand? That’s how I say no to the nonsense. I’ve got better things to do than hang out in a dealership saying no to a bunch of crap. Give me an upfront out the door price. If it is reasonable, I’ll take it. It’s why I like x-plan. Sure you could negotiate a better deal, but it may take considerable effort to do so, which negates the savings. All my new vehicle purchases have been either plan pricing or internet “give me your best price” deals. Dealers that try to add additional markups and add-ons I avoid and walk away. There are plenty of dealers who don’t resort to those tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 11 hours ago, Deanh said: actually quite the opposite...Southern Cal is one of, if not THE largest base of Ford Dealerships in the country.....maybe its a demographic thing...I am NOT attune with what happens out of State, to that Ill fess...seriously, etch a glass and mop and glo take me back 20 years, the only time I hear those mentioned here is in a satirical manner.... When I sold cars (about 28 years ago...) we called it "rust & dust" for undercoating and fabric protection services. Before that, when I worked at my dad's TV and appliance store (mom and pop) we needed a new service van, the local Ford dealer found us a white bare-bones Econoline through a dealer trade but it was undercoated at the previous dealership. They tried to "sell" us the undercoat package that was already applied to the vehicle...told them "no thank you"....they dropped the cost and we bought the van. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 On 12/31/2021 at 4:17 AM, twintornados said: When I sold cars (about 28 years ago...) we called it "rust & dust" for undercoating and fabric protection services. Before that, when I worked at my dad's TV and appliance store (mom and pop) we needed a new service van, the local Ford dealer found us a white bare-bones Econoline through a dealer trade but it was undercoated at the previous dealership. They tried to "sell" us the undercoat package that was already applied to the vehicle...told them "no thank you"....they dropped the cost and we bought the van. some of the "adds" over the years have been hilarious...most thankfully put to Pasture...ie Mop and Glo, etch a Glass, Undercoating yadda yadda....now days all I see is Lo Jack or trackers, or some sort of alarm system....I think Ford themselves just came out with some sort of Paint Protectant called Ford Protect...but not too many step up for that option at all..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 New car dealerships and their lobbying body NADA are finally showing signs of taking BEV sales and service seriously. At the NADA Show 2022 recently, the organization announced partnerships with the Center for Sustainable Energy and Plug In America. NADA Announces Dealership Electric Vehicle Education Program with the Center for Sustainable Energy and Plug In America “The transition to electric vehicles is now inevitable and dealers play an important role in helping consumers as they make the switch,” said Joel Levin, executive director of Plug In America. “We are excited to work with NADA and CSE to help dealers educate consumers about the many benefits of EVs, from cleaner air to convenience to the great driving experience.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Well I’m confused, Ford seems willing to to fly a kite that avoiding dealers and selling EVs could save them $2,000 per vehicle but seems to avoid any involvement with customers or to support them after taking deposits and payment has happened. Things like vehicle tracking, where is it and how long until I get my vehicle seem to be matters for dealers to sort out. As it’s always been, Ford has preferred an interface/filter between itself and buyers because it has difficulty in micro management of what it sees as small issues. If Ford truly wants to sell direct to the public, it can’t simply do the easy stuff and shrugg off the awkward time consuming things to some other entity it won’t pay. You can sell this anyway you like but actions speak louder than words, Ford wants the efficiency of Tesla but how much is it prepared to really change itself beyond window dressing for Wall Street? Hell is paved with good intention, the real trick is to actually make things happen beyond words. Ford has to change, not their dealers, not their customers. Edited March 18, 2022 by jpd80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Well I’m confused, Ford seems willing to to fly a kite that avoiding dealers and selling EVs could save them $2,000 per vehicle but seems to avoid any involvement with customers or to support them after taking deposits and payment has happened. Things like vehicle tracking, where is it and how long until I get my vehicle seem to be matters for dealers to sort out. As it’s always been, Ford has preferred an interface/filter between itself and buyers because it has difficulty in micro management of what it sees as small issues. If Ford truly wants to sell direct to the public, it can’t simply do the easy stuff and shrugg off the awkward time consuming things to some other entity it won’t pay. You can sell this anyway you like but actions speak louder than words, Ford wants the efficiency of Tesla but how much is it prepared to really change itself beyond window dressing for Wall Street? Hell is paved with good intention, the real trick is to actually make things happen beyond words. Ford has to change, not their dealers, not their customers. Where did you see/hear all that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Ford is currently trialling some direct ordering.. The bigger question is why would Farley bring up Tesla having an advantage of $2,000 by direct selling to customers if it wasn’t looking at short cutting dealers with EVs? Secondly, anyone having a problem locating their car in the ordering system is immediately directed to a dealer to sort out the mess..Ford simply does not have the resources in place to deal directly with customer orders, especially when things go wrong. Sure current situations where Ford could sell the same vehicle four times over doesn’t help with clarity but there’s enough customer and dealer anecdotal evidence that Ford doesn’t like/ isn’t capable of directly managing and liaising with customer re their orders. If Ford is looking at improving the current situation, that would be a major coup and something worth raving about. Edited March 18, 2022 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 58 minutes ago, akirby said: Where did you see/hear all that? Some of the issues that jpd80 mentioned may be related to the firsthand experiences that Deanh and ice-capades shared with us on this site, primarily related to poor communication and support of their respective dealerships and ultimately customers by Ford corporate people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 21 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Ford is currently trialling some direct ordering.. The bigger question is why would Farley bring up Tesla having an advantage of $2,000 by direct selling to customers if it wasn’t looking at short cutting dealers with EVs? Secondly, anyone having a problem locating their car in the ordering system is immediately directed to a dealer to sort out the mess..Ford simply does not have the resources in place to deal directly with customer orders, especially when things go wrong. Sure current situations where Ford could sell the same vehicle four times over doesn’t help with clarity but there’s enough customer and dealer anecdotal evidence that Ford doesn’t like/ isn’t capable of directly managing and liaising with customer re their orders. If Ford is looking at improving the current situation, that would be a major coup and something worth raving about. I've always felt that Ford needs to set up a team dedicated to tracking and expediting customer and dealer orders so that there is clear communication on where the vehicle is at any given moment. With today's tech, this should be easy. Even with Ford Pass, I know where my vehicle is at all times. For decades, customers have been complaining about the delays and not knowing much in general either where the vehicle is or when it will arrive. So customer gets the feeling that Ford doesn't care. Now I get it that supply constraints make it tougher, but Ford can still communicate better and give the customer timely feedback. These super long delays with virtually no feedback are inexcusable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 17 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: I've always felt that Ford needs to set up a team dedicated to tracking and expediting customer and dealer orders so that there is clear communication on where the vehicle is at any given moment. With today's tech, this should be easy. Even with Ford Pass, I know where my vehicle is at all times. For decades, customers have been complaining about the delays and not knowing much in general either where the vehicle is or when it will arrive. So customer gets the feeling that Ford doesn't care. Now I get it that supply constraints make it tougher, but Ford can still communicate better and give the customer timely feedback. These super long delays with virtually no feedback are inexcusable. Good points FordBuyer. I think that Ford is upgrading its digital infrastructure to provide a better customer experience with things like vehicle tracking. But technology is only part of the issue. The bigger concern is Ford's corporate culture, which as Deanh and ice-capades mentioned, has traditionally not put a high priority on honest, direct, and respectful communication internally, or externally with dealers, suppliers, and customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 43 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Good points FordBuyer. I think that Ford is upgrading its digital infrastructure to provide a better customer experience with things like vehicle tracking. But technology is only part of the issue. The bigger concern is Ford's corporate culture, which as Deanh and ice-capades mentioned, has traditionally not put a high priority on honest, direct, and respectful communication internally, or externally with dealers, suppliers, and customers. I’m hoping that remedies are being put in place as Ford really hasn’t had the need to interact with sale and delivery of vehicles, passing that off to dealers. Everyone hopes for a better system including Ford, it’s just overcoming resistance to change that’s the problem, it far too easy to do/spend nothing to fix problems, maybe they now see a reason…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 hour ago, FordBuyer said: I've always felt that Ford needs to set up a team dedicated to tracking and expediting customer and dealer orders so that there is clear communication on where the vehicle is at any given moment. With today's tech, this should be easy. Even with Ford Pass, I know where my vehicle is at all times. That would work if Ford still owned their own railroad.... Also FordPass only works after you take delivery of the vehicle, or at least that's how it's supposed to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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