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13 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Whatever was done for 2015/2016 as an update was planned back in 2013/2014, the world was very different then.

 

The '17 refresh - regardless of when it was initiated - was not enough for any time period.  Period lol.

 

Unless it was only planned to last a year or something and was extended way out, that's the only way I'd classify it as "enough"

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20 minutes ago, akirby said:

Fusion was new for 2013.  The “refresh” was 2017.

Context, an update of the 2007 Mondeo which was made heavier with AWD and provision for V6

CD4 followed the early EUCD design very closely with lots of under the surface updates.

The point is that Fusion and Focus were a lot older that many in the US imagine,

C1 Focus dates back to the early 2000s in Europe.

 

My point being that Ford chose to update those older preloved designs because it made good economic sense but they were always going to look older than the fresher competition.

Edited by jpd80

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21 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Context, an update of the 2007 Mondeo which was made heavier with AWD and provision for V6

CD4 followed the early EUCD design very closely with lots of under the surface updates.

The point is that Fusion and Focus were a lot older that many in the US imagine,

C1 Focus dates back to the early 2000s in Europe.

 

My point being that Ford chose to update those older preloved designs because it made good economic sense but they were always going to look older than the fresher competition.

 

Regardless of Europe, in the US, the '13 Fusion was a big deal and really well received.

 

---

 

We're off topic from Mustang, though.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

Regardless of Europe, in the US, the '13 Fusion was a big deal and really well received.

 

---

 

We're off topic from Mustang, though.

Not really, the sixth generation Mustang  arrived in 2015, imagine if America hadn’t seen it

until it arrived in 2022 with a heavy makeover………

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Not really, the sixth generation Mustang  arrived in 2015, imagine if America hadn’t seen it

until it arrived in 2022 with a heavy makeover………

 

I'm not understanding your point?  It'd seem like a new vehicle.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

I'm not understanding your point?  It'd seem like a new vehicle.

 

Apologies for going on with this 

Edited by jpd80

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For what it's worth, I'm guessing some news related to future vehicles. May not be the S650.

 

Screenshot_20220121-221150.png

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18 minutes ago, JayXJ said:

For what it's worth, I'm guessing some news related to future vehicles. May not be the S650.

 

Screenshot_20220121-221150.png

I’m guessing we’ll get the Braptor roll out. King of Hammers starts today as well. My guess is they take out a Braptor on Sunday for a partial reveal and hit the course. Embargo ending on Monday?

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11 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I'm not understanding your point?  It'd seem like a new vehicle.

 

His point was 2013 Mondeo was basically a heavy facelift of EUCD Mondeo like S650 is to S550. So while CD4 Fusion was new to North America, it didn't look that different from the EUCD Mondeo which had been for sale in the rest of the world since 2007.

 

Same with 2013 Escape which was all new to us but was just a mild facelift of the C1 Kuga from 2009. 

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Escape Hybrid and Maverick Hybrid offer no AWD option.  But, consumers can get AWD with an ICE Escape and Maverick.  All Bronco Sports have AWD.   These models are all built on the same platform.   The point is if Ford is planning only hybrid systems for these models, then AWD has to be available.  Otherwise, it's a non-starter.  

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22 minutes ago, llinthicum1 said:

Escape Hybrid and Maverick Hybrid offer no AWD option.  But, consumers can get AWD with an ICE Escape and Maverick.  All Bronco Sports have AWD.   These models are all built on the same platform.   The point is if Ford is planning only hybrid systems for these models, then AWD has to be available.  Otherwise, it's a non-starter.  


You can get an Escape Hybrid with AWD, just can't get the PIH in AWD. 

Edited by jasonj80

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6 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

I’m guessing we’ll get the Braptor roll out. King of Hammers starts today as well. My guess is they take out a Braptor on Sunday for a partial reveal and hit the course. Embargo ending on Monday?

That's exactly what it is, official bronco raptor reveal is happening on the 24th. 

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So getting back on topic with the s650, the running theory is the gt Mike we're seeing is just a camouflaged s550 designed to keep the public occupied while the s650 continues testing on closed courses. Not sure if I believe that, but if people in the know want to chime in, that would be interesting. 

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1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:


You can get an Escape Hybrid with AWD, just can't get the PIH in AWD. 

Correct, I think that was more of a product decision than any technical restriction, there would be little if any impediment to having either mechanical or electric AWD. I wonder if a second battery could be added to the passenger side for a longer range PHEV.

 

1637721925156.jpg

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2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

So getting back on topic with the s650, the running theory is the gt Mike we're seeing is just a camouflaged s550 designed to keep the public occupied while the s650 continues testing on closed courses. Not sure if I believe that, but if people in the know want to chime in, that would be interesting. 


i could buy either….

 

-early mule so it uses a lot of s550 parts

 

or

 

-S650 just plain uses some carryover parts (like mirrors etc)

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3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Correct, I think that was more of a product decision than any technical restriction, there would be little if any impediment to having either mechanical or electric AWD. I wonder if a second battery could be added to the passenger side for a longer range PHEV.

 

1637721925156.jpg

Surprised it wasn’t on the passenger side to begin with to offset the weight of the driver.  Certainly looks feasible unless there is something else in that location not shown in the diagram.  That battery pack looks much smaller than the 1.5kwh pack in the f150 powerboost. Maybe Ford will release a PIH F150.

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4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

So getting back on topic with the s650, the running theory is the gt Mike we're seeing is just a camouflaged s550 designed to keep the public occupied while the s650 continues testing on closed courses. Not sure if I believe that, but if people in the know want to chime in, that would be interesting. 


I think that would be a first but I've been wrong before. I think what’s more likely is they just used parts they had available to make it work well enough for the beginning phases of testing and the actual parts will be substituted as they're finished or newer prototypes are built. 

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Normally HVAC/powertrain mules come first followed by prototype testing, the latter is normally six to nine months before launch, so maybe a little early if March 2023…….

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16 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Normally HVAC/powertrain mules come first followed by prototype testing, the latter is normally six to nine months before launch, so maybe a little early if March 2023…….

Interesting, my question is, if it's just a chassis/powertrain mule, why is there so much heavy camo?

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23 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Interesting, my question is, if it's just a chassis/powertrain mule, why is there so much heavy camo?

That’s true, ( d’oh what am I thinking) field evaluation vehicles are usually prototypes long before the others I mentioned above…

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Certainly we  have seen two different prototypes. The first one spotted at Ford's test track.......this one appeared to be an Ecoboost, judging by the wheels and brakes. But this one definitely seemed to a using production ready (new) headlamps. The second one, spotted on the street appears to be a GT judging by the wheels and brakes (and video of it definitely sounded like a V8). However, this one is still using S550 headlamps.....one member of Mustang7G zoomed in and you can see it still has the round projector of the existing S550. 

 

So, was the second prototype rushed out to divert attention away from the test track?  Or is it a more cobbled together prototype? I'd have thought if they're building full S650 prototypes (rather than S550 based mules) I'd expect them to all be built to the same "production intent" purposes.

 

 

 

 

S650 Prototype 17.jpg

S650 Prototype GT 2.jpg

S650 Prototype headlamp.jpg

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4 hours ago, Twin Turbo said:

Certainly we  have seen two different prototypes. The first one spotted at Ford's test track.......this one appeared to be an Ecoboost, judging by the wheels and brakes. But this one definitely seemed to a using production ready (new) headlamps. The second one, spotted on the street appears to be a GT judging by the wheels and brakes (and video of it definitely sounded like a V8). However, this one is still using S550 headlamps.....one member of Mustang7G zoomed in and you can see it still has the round projector of the existing S550. 

 

So, was the second prototype rushed out to divert attention away from the test track?  Or is it a more cobbled together prototype? I'd have thought if they're building full S650 prototypes (rather than S550 based mules) I'd expect them to all be built to the same "production intent" purposes.

 

 

 

 

S650 Prototype 17.jpg

S650 Prototype GT 2.jpg

S650 Prototype headlamp.jpg

A lot of people are thinking the gt mule is a s550, because a lot of things on the design, like the headlights, or those two creases on the side, are virtually identical to an s550. But those headlights could be placeholders, and those two lines have been a part of mustang design for decades.id imagine the side surfacing of the s650 will be like the mach-e, but with more muscular, and sharper surface treatment. I understand why so many people think that gt is an s550. But I just can't wrap my brain around Ford deciding to tell their employees to spend a decent amount of time to completely camo an existing design, just to mess with people, and distract them while the "real" s650 tests. Their employees surely have more important things to do, and making that decision would seem like a waste of valuable time and resources.

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11 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

A lot of people are thinking the gt mule is a s550, because a lot of things on the design, like the headlights, or those two creases on the side, are virtually identical to an s550. But those headlights could be placeholders, and those two lines have been a part of mustang design for decades.id imagine the side surfacing of the s650 will be like the mach-e, but with more muscular, and sharper surface treatment. I understand why so many people think that gt is an s550. But I just can't wrap my brain around Ford deciding to tell their employees to spend a decent amount of time to completely camo an existing design, just to mess with people, and distract them while the "real" s650 tests. Their employees surely have more important things to do, and making that decision would seem like a waste of valuable time and resources.

 

The more you can throw people off, though, the more a surprise the final design will be.

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