jpd80 Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, bzcat said: I'm guessing it will be an alternative version of F-150 like GMC Hummer that is aimed at higher end buyer with more performance and bigger price tag. The F-150 Lightning price range is aimed at the mainstream market. Farley is probably thinking $100k+ starting price. I noticed that unsurprisingly the Lightning’s bottom two trims are now sold out for this year, the only ones left are around $90,000 which is what we expect form Ford with new model trim mix in the first 12 months, lots and lots of high profit trucks that are easy to build. GM and Ford love the narrative of BEVs adding to truck sales, not replacing them, so there we have it for now that Ford has practically sold all this generation of Lightning and then some. REV1 will basically be a money making centre for the next three years but what happens to it once Tennessee starts up with TE1 Lightening, does that make room for a great PHEV with a small gas engine. Edited April 28, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 Ranger/Maverick is the only thing that makes sense. Ford isn’t going to chase $100k hummers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 35 minutes ago, akirby said: Ford isn’t going to chase $100k hummers. And hand the lucrative supertruck market to GM, Rivian, Tesla, etc. on a silver platter? Jim Farley and Bill Ford Jr. aren't going to throw away the opportunity to participate in that segment, a segment that Ford can easily field entries for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 4 hours ago, rperez817 said: And hand the lucrative supertruck market to GM, Rivian, Tesla, etc. on a silver platter? Jim Farley and Bill Ford Jr. aren't going to throw away the opportunity to participate in that segment, a segment that Ford can easily field entries for. Sure they are, there's little reason to chase after that when the goal is affordable BEVs for everyone. Maybe Lincoln will chase part of that but not Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 28, 2022 Author Share Posted April 28, 2022 6 hours ago, rperez817 said: And hand the lucrative supertruck market to GM, Rivian, Tesla, etc. on a silver platter? Jim Farley and Bill Ford Jr. aren't going to throw away the opportunity to participate in that segment, a segment that Ford can easily field entries for. 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Sure they are, there's little reason to chase after that when the goal is affordable BEVs for everyone. Maybe Lincoln will chase part of that but not Ford. Why not? its just like selling King Ranch F-150s or Super Duties...the lower end models pay for the overall engineering. A High End BEV F-150 would have options/features that the regular lightning wouldn't have. Using Lincoln to chase that market would be a mistake IMO. Part of the reason that "supertrucks" exist is that the BEV only companies don't have ICE based products to provide profits. I'm willing to assume the Lightning will be "cheap" to make due to it sharing lots of with the ICE F-150 and will be cheaper to make as time goes on due to process improvements etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Why not? its just like selling King Ranch F-150s or Super Duties...the lower end models pay for the overall engineering. Because it's not a premium Brand. Aside from the occasional GT or Raptor R, there's not going to be a regular $100k Ford in the lineup, that would be a big mistake for a brand that's generally aimed at the average middle class buyer. Let GM have their identity crisis Edited April 28, 2022 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Because it's not a premium Brand. Aside from the occasional GT or Raptor R, there's not going to be a regular $100k Ford in the lineup, that would be a big mistake for a brand that's generally aimed at the average middle class buyer. Let GM have their identity crisis Thats not it - it could easily be a Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 9 hours ago, rperez817 said: And hand the lucrative supertruck market to GM, Rivian, Tesla, etc. on a silver platter? Jim Farley and Bill Ford Jr. aren't going to throw away the opportunity to participate in that segment, a segment that Ford can easily field entries for. It may be lucrative on a profit per vehicle basis, but that’s a very tiny market with low volumes. They could more easily just option up a F150 Lightning Raptor to $80k or so without the garish cartoon styling. A Bev Ranger would slot below Lightning but could still go to $60K or so at 10 times the hummer volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, akirby said: Thats not it - it could easily be a Lincoln. thats what I'm saying in my own stupid long-winded way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 4 hours ago, akirby said: It may be lucrative on a profit per vehicle basis, but that’s a very tiny market with low volumes. They could more easily just option up a F150 Lightning Raptor to $80k or so without the garish cartoon styling. A Bev Ranger would slot below Lightning but could still go to $60K or so at 10 times the hummer volume. I could be wrong, but if you want the long range Lighning, it only comes in the highest trim levels that start at $70,000 or so. Since Ford never continued the Excursion, not sure why Ford would build a 9,000 pound Hummer like BEV that would be very low volume just because others do it. Probably a BEV Expedition some day, and the Expedtion Max is plenty big and more practical than showy Hummer. Let GM have the Hummer and Corvette. Both probably lose GM money most years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 I don't think Ford will try another Lincoln truck. I don't see any issue with $100k+ Ford trucks. You can option up some trucks now that reaches $100k so going another 10~15% higher is no that big of a deal. With inflation, you going to get there anyway. The brand is both popular and aspirational when it comes to trucks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balthisar Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 It's going to be the next electric F-150. Easy enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 You may be right- I suspect the F150 Lightning stuck with the existing F150 body because tooling up a new one was too risky and might delay the whole project. Now that Lightning annual volumes will be well in to 6 figures, Ford can give the Lightning it's own body that takes advantage of the "skateboard" chassis and isn't compromised by a huge front end to cover an IC engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 23 hours ago, rperez817 said: And hand the lucrative supertruck market to GM, Rivian, Tesla, etc. on a silver platter? Jim Farley and Bill Ford Jr. aren't going to throw away the opportunity to participate in that segment, a segment that Ford can easily field entries for. They can much more easily electrify/create a Raptor Lightning that's going to target the same "supertruck" segment at similar prices without having to develop and market a unique model. Ditto for a Ranger Raptor Lightning and Bronco/Bronco Raptor Lightning a segment lower. It would go against Lincoln's image, but if they really wanted to, they could make a G-wagon-like product for Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 Hoping that it is the Ranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 20 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said: You may be right- I suspect the F150 Lightning stuck with the existing F150 body because tooling up a new one was too risky and might delay the whole project. Now that Lightning annual volumes will be well in to 6 figures, Ford can give the Lightning it's own body that takes advantage of the "skateboard" chassis and isn't compromised by a huge front end to cover an IC engine. The lighting we see today was Hackett’s original plan for ICE plants to evolve by making full electric versions of their ICE vehicles, that kind of electric vehicle roll out is too slow for the overwhelming wave of demand that Ford is seeing. Tennessee production of TE1 Lightning will mean that Dearborn and Kansas City go from three shifts back to two….. We still don’t have confirmation of where the BEV Explorer/Aviator are going in 2024 but again, if it’s not Chicargo, then CAP will probably lose a shift as well. And if Oakville begins building VW based compact BEVs in 2025, then that must surely affect Escape/Corsair production at Louisville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 5 hours ago, jpd80 said: The lighting we see today was Hackett’s original plan for ICE plants to evolve by making full electric versions of their ICE vehicles, that kind of electric vehicle roll out is too slow for the overwhelming wave of demand that Ford is seeing. Tennessee production of TE1 Lightning will mean that Dearborn and Kansas City go from three shifts back to two….. We still don’t have confirmation of where the BEV Explorer/Aviator are going in 2024 but again, if it’s not Chicargo, then CAP will probably lose a shift as well. And if Oakville begins building VW based compact BEVs in 2025, then that must surely affect Escape/Corsair production at Louisville. I'm sure the UAW will have some sayso on any shift cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Footballfan said: I'm sure the UAW will have some sayso on any shift cuts. I’m sure it will but how do you resolve 180k-200k of BEV F150 sales moving away from Dearborn and Kansas City. Tennessee will still be a union plant but how many will be willing to relocate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 7 hours ago, jpd80 said: I’m sure it will but how do you resolve 180k-200k of BEV F150 sales moving away from Dearborn and Kansas City. Tennessee will still be a union plant but how many will be willing to relocate? Depends. How expensive is land down there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 38 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Depends. How expensive is land down there? No idea but it’s near Memphis….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: No idea but it’s near Memphis….. Eww, gross. Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, jpd80 said: The lighting we see today was Hackett’s original plan for ICE plants to evolve by making full electric versions of their ICE vehicles, that kind of electric vehicle roll out is too slow for the overwhelming wave of demand that Ford is seeing. Tennessee production of TE1 Lightning will mean that Dearborn and Kansas City go from three shifts back to two….. We still don’t have confirmation of where the BEV Explorer/Aviator are going in 2024 but again, if it’s not Chicargo, then CAP will probably lose a shift as well. And if Oakville begins building VW based compact BEVs in 2025, then that must surely affect Escape/Corsair production at Louisville. No reason to think Detroit won't continue building the current Lightning in addition to TE1 in Tennessee. Demand for EV is sky high... Ford will be wise to keep EV production going at sites already setup for EV. Maybe Ford will convert the current Lightning production to only the Pro version aimed at fleets - maybe rename it something else like F-100 and F-200... and move retail customers to the TE1 version F-150. Just one of the possibilities. Once BOC is at full production with TE1, Ford will be able to adjust the mix of the F-150 at the Detroit and Kansas City plants. If EV demand starts to pull away from ICE, Ford can convert Detroit to full EV production for example. This is why Farley is talking about a "new" EV truck. He is telegraphing Ford's intention to keep the current Lightning in production beyond the launch of TE1 F-150 EV. Edited April 30, 2022 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970TorinoGT Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 I was listening to the "InsideEVs" podcast on Friday and one of the guests was at the Lightning launch. She said that Farley was talking individually with folks during the tour and mentioned that the new pickup would (paraphrasing) "be about $7k cheaper *or* have approximately 100mi more range." Additionally, it will be "controversial", have "active and deployable aero" with "flaps like you would see on a semi truck" per Farley. Skip to 34 min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bUMzJHjwTY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyFord Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Eww, gross. Pass. Stanton, Tennessee is what I found. Fifty or so miles to Memphis. Edited April 30, 2022 by BarneyFord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 Yeah, hard pass. Too close to the city 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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