2024 FORD EXPLORER SPIED WITH CHINESE COUNTERPART’S FEATURES

[tbone]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

I’m sure it’s radical if you’re just looking at the design.  But this isn’t just a radical design.  The design is what enables the use of fewer, cheaper batteries.  So if, e.g., it comes in at $40k with a 250 mile range while the competition is at $60k with less space then it will be a huge hit. If it was the same price size and range as the competition then I would be really worried.  To me it sounds more like an EV minivan.  

I suppose I could get behind something like the old R Class Mercedes.  I never found them to be offensive.  

[akirby]

4 minutes ago, akirby said:

They didn’t do that with Maverick

Im not saying they’ll be $20k cheaper but they’ll need to be significantly cheaper.

[rmc523]

22 minutes ago, akirby said:

The idea is the next Gen batteries are cheaper and due to aero and lighter weight they’ll need less of them.  I think I made up the $40k figure but if they expect to undercut the competition it will need to be close to that.

 

I'm guessing 50k.  45k at best.

 

Explorer starts at 36k.

Mach E starts at 43k.  I don't see them undercutting their own, smaller product like that.

Edited July 12, 2023 by rmc523

[HotRunrGuy]

29 minutes ago, akirby said:

They didn’t do that with Maverick

 

It took them a few years, but Maverick is no longer the $19,995 darling it once was. MY24 starts at $23,400, add $1500 for Hybrid. Plus $1595 destination.

 

HRG

[tbone]

10 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I'm guessing 50k.  45k at best.

 

Explorer starts at 36k.

Mach E starts at 43k.  I don't see them undercutting their own, smaller product like that.

Don’t you remember, they’re dumping the Mach E now because it’s a commodity, so it won’t be a problem. 

[T-dubz]

18 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

It took them a few years, but Maverick is no longer the $19,995 darling it once was. MY24 starts at $23,400, add $1500 for Hybrid. Plus $1595 destination.

 

HRG

Yeah, the mavericks main advantage is its price. It can get away with that price now with all the cost saving measures ford took, like the cheap plastic bumpers on all trims, cheaper interior materials, bare metal behind the seats, a lesser version of sync, and who know what else. Buyers are completely cool with that because the price is low. Once you start raising the price and not improving the product, you will likely see sales decline.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

It took them a few years, but Maverick is no longer the $19,995 darling it once was. MY24 starts at $23,400, add $1500 for Hybrid. Plus $1595 destination.

 

HRG

In todays market $25k is dirt cheap.

Edited July 12, 2023 by akirby

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, tbone said:

Don’t you remember, they’re dumping the Mach E now because it’s a commodity, so it won’t be a problem. 

Using Borg as a reference isn’t the greatest idea. If anything, the Mach E will morph into a product shared with the next gen EV coupe Mustang platform

[tbone]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Using Borg as a reference isn’t the greatest idea. If anything, the Mach E will morph into a product shared with the next gen EV coupe Mustang platform

I was being a smart ass?

[Captainp4]

11 hours ago, akirby said:

There is nothing you can do to a mass market family sedan to make it any less of a commodity.  You can’t give it big tires or off road packages.  Buyers don’t care about performance.  They don’t care about luxury features - if they want that they get an entry level luxury sedan.  It’s just dependable comfortable transportation.

 

Yes - lack of updates made Fusion less desirable but that wasn’t the problem.  Even when it was fresh in 2013 and they sold 300k they simply weren’t making much profit thanks to Nissan and the Koreans and their bargain basement pricing.  Fusion Titaniums (I had a 2013) were far better than the competition and so was the 2017 sport.  But only a few people cared enough to pay the premium.

 

It’s like trying to sell a $7 bottle of designer ketchup.  A few will pay but everybody else is just buying the regular $3 bottle because ketchup is ketchup.  There is profit in commodity items but the margins are really small and you need high volume which requires a lot of infrastructure.  If that’s the only game in town then you play.  But if you have better options then that investment can yield better returns.  Case in point - Hermosillo and MAP.

I'm getting tired of reading you guys argue, but I'm here to say the Fusion Raptor R would be KILLER. Also, still don't understand them killing Edge. I'll grab another beer and read the rest of the thread now ?

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, Captainp4 said:

Also, still don't understand them killing Edge. I'll grab another beer and read the rest of the thread now ?

 

I got this off Wikipedia:

 

Year	U.S.[28]	China[29]	Europe[30]	Mexico[31]
2006	2,202			38
2007	130,125			2,710
2008	110,798			3,103
2009	88,548			2,405
2010	118,637			2,817
2011	121,702			3,379
2012	127,969			3,586
2013	129,109			2,155
2014	108,864			1,148
2015	124,120	65,152		1,631
2016	134,588	123,690	9,300	1,844
2017	142,603	108,525	16,000	1,327
2018	134,122	59,892	9,500	898
2019	138,515	32,815	8,644	850
2020	108,886	25,709	3,722	325
2021	85,225	31,091		261
2022	85,465	22,684

 

 

The 2020/21MY are fucked because of shortages and COVID in NA, but looking at the China numbers, it makes even less sense to keep making it there because the numbers dropped in half from 2018 to 2019 and never really recovered....unless it's getting exported some place else?

 

Not to mention the new Edge in China is three row vehicle...the Evos is a 2 row CUV/Sedan hybrid...and I haven't seen anything about its sales since it went on sale in 2021.

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by silvrsvt

[DeluxeStang]

7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Using Borg as a reference isn’t the greatest idea. If anything, the Mach E will morph into a product shared with the next gen EV coupe Mustang platform

Interestingly enough, future product development codes indicate there will be a next gen mach-e crossover and a mach-e coupe. Lots of speculation as to what the coupe could be. Some think it's a mach-e with a more traditional fastback roofline. Others think it's an actual sports car coupe that's riding on the same platform that just hasn't gotten its own name yet.

[Harley Lover]

15 hours ago, akirby said:

They didn’t do that with Maverick

 

How do you know? What's the competition?

[silvrsvt]

6 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Interestingly enough, future product development codes indicate there will be a next gen mach-e crossover and a mach-e coupe. Lots of speculation as to what the coupe could be. Some think it's a mach-e with a more traditional fastback roofline. Others think it's an actual sports car coupe that's riding on the same platform that just hasn't gotten its own name yet.

 

Right but the rumor he has started is that there is no next gen Mach E, which if I remember right, was supposed to be out in a few years before the ICE Mustang goes away. 

I think the timeline was 2nd gen Mach E in 2027 or so and the new EV Mustang in 2029 or so.

 

But I also think that EV situation is fluid with Ford and outside of the 3 row crossover and the Thunder (radical EV F-150), nothing is nailed down yet.

 

The the black hole that we don't have info on is what is happening to the Escape/Corsair in a few years and how Flat Rock will be handled at the end of the decade. 

 

I'm kind of thinking that LAP might get the EV Mustang if they close Flat Rock along with whatever replaces the Escape in size. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Harley Lover said:

 

How do you know? What's the competition?

Santa Cruz which started at $25k when Maverick debuted at $19,995.  Higher trims were even more expensive in comparison.  

[akirby]

42 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Right but the rumor he has started is that there is no next gen Mach E, which if I remember right, was supposed to be out in a few years before the ICE Mustang goes away. 

I think the timeline was 2nd gen Mach E in 2027 or so and the new EV Mustang in 2029 or so.

 

But I also think that EV situation is fluid with Ford and outside of the 3 row crossover and the Thunder (radical EV F-150), nothing is nailed down yet.

 

The the black hole that we don't have info on is what is happening to the Escape/Corsair in a few years and how Flat Rock will be handled at the end of the decade. 

 

I'm kind of thinking that LAP might get the EV Mustang if they close Flat Rock along with whatever replaces the Escape in size. 

Wasnt 2nd Gen Mach E supposed to be on the VW platform then was changed?

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Wasnt 2nd Gen Mach E supposed to be on the VW platform then was changed?

 

Good question..I think that was the assumption up until 18 months ago when Ford decided to move on from the MEB platform. Just like Oakville was supposed to get 5 EVs and the assumption they would be the VW ones. 

 

I guess the plan changed again during COVID. 

[joseodiaga4]

Ford Explorer Active "spy" pics:

 

 

https://fordauthority.com/2023/07/2024-ford-explorer-active-spotted-for-first-time/

[silvrsvt]

No lightbar like the Escape? LOL

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

Wasnt 2nd Gen Mach E supposed to be on the VW platform then was changed?

I believe Ford was saying they might develop smaller mach-e inspired vehicles on the VW platform. But I don't believe they plan on using that platform for the mach-e itself. 

[ice-capades]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Good question..I think that was the assumption up until 18 months ago when Ford decided to move on from the MEB platform. Just like Oakville was supposed to get 5 EVs and the assumption they would be the VW ones. 

 

I guess the plan changed again during COVID. 

 

I keep waiting to see how long this Ford-VW partnership lasts. It may last for a while in Europe, but I really doubt the prospects of a long-term relationship in the North American market. VW is a niche player in North America with no notable success sales wise and at some stage Ford will decide it doesn't need to spend money and time on another platform with a partner.   

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Right but the rumor he has started is that there is no next gen Mach E, which if I remember right, was supposed to be out in a few years before the ICE Mustang goes away. 

I think the timeline was 2nd gen Mach E in 2027 or so and the new EV Mustang in 2029 or so.

 

But I also think that EV situation is fluid with Ford and outside of the 3 row crossover and the Thunder (radical EV F-150), nothing is nailed down yet.

 

The the black hole that we don't have info on is what is happening to the Escape/Corsair in a few years and how Flat Rock will be handled at the end of the decade. 

 

I'm kind of thinking that LAP might get the EV Mustang if they close Flat Rock along with whatever replaces the Escape in size. 

Farley was talking about how he wants even the s750 or whatever it's called mustang to have a V8. We'll have to see what happens with it. It seems like Ford doesn't want to fully commit to an ev mustang coupe until battery technology makes considerable advancements, especially in the weight department. 

[silvrsvt]

7 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Farley was talking about how he wants even the s750 or whatever it's called mustang to have a V8. 

 

Where was this? This contradicts nearly everything I've seen about the S650 being the last ICE Mustang

 

[ice-capades]

4 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Farley was talking about how he wants even the s750 or whatever it's called mustang to have a V8. We'll have to see what happens with it. It seems like Ford doesn't want to fully commit to an ev mustang coupe until battery technology makes considerable advancements, especially in the weight department. 

 

I have more faith in what Ford will do with future Mustang models, ICE and BEV, than I do with the constantly changing plans we hear about other vehicle lines. Mustang is a relatively low volume, niche market with a loyal following that is successful on a global basis and its iconic appeal is totally different from any other Ford vehicle. There's little need for Ford to rush Mustang BEV development. Ford will take their time to see how the market changes in the next few years and adjust their plans and designs for future Mustang models accordingly. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

 

I keep waiting to see how long this Ford-VW partnership lasts. It may last for a while in Europe, but I really doubt the prospects of a long-term relationship in the North American market. VW is a niche player in North America with no notable success sales wise and at some stage Ford will decide it doesn't need to spend money and time on another platform with a partner.   

I thought they already ditched VW in North America and the partnership would be Europe and rest of world only.