Ford Mustang V8 Will Be Offered As Long As Possible

[ice-capades]

Ford Mustang V8 Will Be Offered As Long As Possible

https://fordauthority.com/2023/07/ford-mustang-v8-will-be-offered-as-long-as-possible/

 

Over the past few years, the V8 engine has been slowly on its way out, with many manufacturers ditching it for powerplants with fewer cylinders and forced induction or all-electric powertrains. That includes The Blue Oval, though in all fairness, the automaker has at least managed to keep the V8 around for Ford Mustang fans to enjoy, even with the debut of the all-new, S650 gen model – which can still be had with the venerable Ford 5.0L V8 Coyote touting three different outputs. However, prior rumors suggest that the S650 may be the very last Ford Mustang offered with V8 power, meaning that this combination should be around until at least 2030. However, it seems as if Ford hasn’t set a date in terms of when it will stop making V8 Mustangs, according to CarExpert.

 

“As long as we can [offer a V8], we will,” said Mark Rushbrook, global director of Ford Performance. Rushbrook added that The Blue Oval has “not identified an end date” for the V8 engine in general, and even noted that the automaker could develop a next-generation version of the Coyote powerplant, “depending on where the regulations go.”

 

Perhaps even more interestingly, the long-rumored hybrid version of the Ford Mustang was apparently on the table, but Rushbrook reveled that it just didn’t seem viable to the automaker at this point in time. “We certainly considered did it make sense or not,” he said. “We think there’s a market of people that want fantastic driving, sounding, performing internal-combustion engines with an automatic transmission, with a manual transmission.”

Edited July 31, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[jpd80]

Just concentrate on what remaining Mustang buyers want, the numbers are reducing to a natural conclusion in the next few years.

[bzcat]

Sensible decision. But probably want to hedge a bit and still develop an EV Mustang. 

 

Porsche is making the same decision on 911.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, bzcat said:

Sensible decision. But probably want to hedge a bit and still develop an EV Mustang. 

 

"As long as possible" for Mustang V8 means "a few more years". The combination of upcoming regulatory standards and the superior performance of BEV will make Mustang V8 obsolete before the end of the decade.

[bzcat]

39 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

"As long as possible" for Mustang V8 means "a few more years". The combination of upcoming regulatory standards and the superior performance of BEV will make Mustang V8 obsolete before the end of the decade.

 

The cost of compliance is going to rise and demand for it may shrink to a point it doesn't make financial sense to keep offering it. I'm not disputing that. 

 

But you may be underestimating the longtail demand on ICE. Automatic transmission are cheaper for regulatory compliance and offer superior performance and yet about 5% of vehicles sold is still manual, despite many attempts to obsolete it. Same will be true of ICE by 2030.

 

If Mustang is the only ICE vehicle Ford sells in 2030, I think it can survive in limited volumes. They'll have to throw some money to hybridize it but in the US at least, CAFE is ostensibly technology agnostic and CARB has yet to adopt a total ban on ICE and may never do so.

 

And superior performance is not the selling point of ICE, specifically the V8 kind. There won't be anyone wanting a 2.0 I4 crossover with soul crushing CVT by 2035, I think that's clear... EV is a far superior solution. But we are not talking about that. Just like manual transmission, Mustang V8's appeal is emotional not rational or statistical. 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by bzcat

[Captainp4]

3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

"As long as possible" for Mustang V8 means "a few more years". The combination of upcoming regulatory standards and the superior performance of BEV will make Mustang V8 obsolete before the end of the decade.

I'm 100% with you on BEV being the future for 90% of use cases, but I think you underestimate the appeal of the v8 sound and feel of a manual transmission - even if it is slower. Never giving up my driveway full of v8 gas/diesel toys for weekend fun, but I do want a BEV for my work truck and the wife's commuter.

[GearheadGrrrl]

IC will be the engine of choice for the use case we have out here in rural America where 600 and more mile days are common. I'm almost 400 miles from Rapid City for example and could easily round trip there in a day with a good IC car thanks to South Dakota's 80 MPH Interstate speed limit. Try that in an EV and 80 MPH cruising will require 3 charges in a day if you can find a working charger.

[DeluxeStang]

On 7/31/2023 at 4:05 PM, rperez817 said:

A smart choice by Ford imo. The key to a healthy company is to have a fair amount of diversity. Invest in what makes each product offering special and the best it can be. For midsized crossovers, that means make it an ev, because EVs are more spacious, refined, and reliability long term, the things buyers of crossovers are more likely to prioritize during a purchase. Making crossovers electric makes them better crossovers.

 

But the mustang is an emotionally charged product. It's not enough for it just to be fast and affordable. It has to look great, feel great, and sound great. Offering mustangs with a v8 option is the smart play, a V8 mustang is a better mustang than an electric mustang.

 

If anything, Ford could keep investing in v8s, but develop EV halo mustang products as well to diversify and broaden the appeal of the mustang. Keep your cruisers and canyon carvers ICE or hybrid, think next gen gt and gt350, with a stick, and make your gt500 some 1,000+ hp electric monster. You appeal to those traditionalists, and new age buyers with the same product.

[jpd80]

Apart from the expected sticker packages, I think the Mustang coupe is pretty much set to finish out with minor updates every couple of years. For most returning buyers, that will be enough but to non-buyers it will look like the same old car being offered.

 

They’ll never do it but a TTV6 version could be offered with the Capri name…

[rperez817]

14 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

But the mustang is an emotionally charged product. It's not enough for it just to be fast and affordable. It has to look great, feel great, and sound great.

 

Excellent point DeluxeStang about the "emotionally charged" aspect of Ford Mustang. This is part of the reason that Jim Farley considers it an "icon". 

 

The characteristics you mentioned, look great, feel great, and sound great, are perfectly suited to BEV. GM and Stellantis plan to release BEV pony cars in the next few years. If Ford wants to compete in this segment, it will need to come out with BEV Mustang Coupe/Convertible sooner rather than later.

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Excellent point DeluxeStang about the "emotionally charged" aspect of Ford Mustang. This is part of the reason that Jim Farley considers it an "icon". 

 

The characteristics you mentioned, look great, feel great, and sound great, are perfectly suited to BEV. GM and Stellantis plan to release BEV pony cars in the next few years. If Ford wants to compete in this segment, it will need to come out with BEV Mustang Coupe/Convertible sooner rather than later.

I think it's very possible that Ford plants one foot in each door and does an EV mustang coupe and a ICE mustang coupe to appeal to multiple audiences. The next gen Mach-e is coming with a coupe version. It's possible that will be an actual sports car coupe riding on that platform. 

[CurtisH]

3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Excellent point DeluxeStang about the "emotionally charged" aspect of Ford Mustang. This is part of the reason that Jim Farley considers it an "icon". 

 

The characteristics you mentioned, look great, feel great, and sound great, are perfectly suited to BEV. GM and Stellantis plan to release BEV pony cars in the next few years. If Ford wants to compete in this segment, it will need to come out with BEV Mustang Coupe/Convertible sooner rather than later.

How is “sound great” perfectly suited to BEV?

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, CurtisH said:

How is “sound great” perfectly suited to BEV?

 

BEV can incorporate customizable and editable sound libraries that work with digital signal processing and amplification techniques. Borla demonstrated its aftermarket product prototype in this category, called Active Performance Sound, at SEMA Show last year. Automakers will come up with their own versions for BEV pony cars too. Borla Active Performance Sound for Electric Vehicles

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by rperez817

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

BEV can incorporate customizable and editable sound libraries that work with digital signal processing and amplification techniques. Borla demonstrated its aftermarket product prototype in this category, called Active Performance Sound, at SEMA Show last year. Automakers will come up with their own versions for BEV pony cars too. Borla Active Performance Sound for Electric Vehicles

 

 

There is endless potential for creating unique EV sounds. Something I haven't seen yet that I would love to see, is the ability to use things like bass and rhythm options to ensure your car sounded exactly the way you wanted it. Maybe people who made cool sounding synthetic engine notes could even sell their unique creations on a marketplace for that brand or something.

[Rangers09]

On 8/1/2023 at 3:50 PM, DeluxeStang said:

A smart choice by Ford imo. The key to a healthy company is to have a fair amount of diversity. Invest in what makes each product offering special and the best it can be. For midsized crossovers, that means make it an ev, because EVs are more spacious, refined, and reliability long term, the things buyers of crossovers are more likely to prioritize during a purchase. Making crossovers electric makes them better crossovers.

 

But the mustang is an emotionally charged product. It's not enough for it just to be fast and affordable. It has to look great, feel great, and sound great. Offering mustangs with a v8 option is the smart play, a V8 mustang is a better mustang than an electric mustang.

 

If anything, Ford could keep investing in v8s, but develop EV halo mustang products as well to diversify and broaden the appeal of the mustang. Keep your cruisers and canyon carvers ICE or hybrid, think next gen gt and gt350, with a stick, and make your gt500 some 1,000+ hp electric monster. You appeal to those traditionalists, and new age buyers with the same product.

 

So true.

 

Having owned a Convertible GT Mustang for 6 or 7 years, it is definitely all about the overall package - the looks, handling, performance, sounds and most importantly, the three pedals on the floor. Yes, when having fun in a Mustang, it has to have a manual gearbox - automatic gearboxes & CVT just don't fit the picture.

 

I had many people ask how I tuned the exhaust and they were shocked with my response, that's straight from the factory.

 

A BEV mustang might appeal to some younger folks, but having owned an ICE Mustang, the lack of sound and manual gearbox, just wouldn't work for me, regardless of the handling and performance, as 50% of the overall package is missing.

 

So I agree, if they develop a BEV type Mustang, they need to keep the ICE versions as long as possible, as I have no doubt they will have sufficient market for a number of years. Heck, if I no longer need the F-450, I would consider another Mustang, a real one, not an electric one.

[2005Explorer]

6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

BEV can incorporate customizable and editable sound libraries that work with digital signal processing and amplification techniques. Borla demonstrated its aftermarket product prototype in this category, called Active Performance Sound, at SEMA Show last year. Automakers will come up with their own versions for BEV pony cars too. Borla Active Performance Sound for Electric Vehicles

 

 

Muscle car enthusiasts who enjoy modifying their cars and wrenching on them are going to be wowed by MP3 fake engine noises being played through speakers? 

[rperez817]

9 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

Muscle car enthusiasts who enjoy modifying their cars and wrenching on them are going to be wowed by MP3 fake engine noises being played through speakers? 

 

The sounds in Borla's Active Performance Sound product aren't fake.

 

Sound for Borla's EV system comes from professional recordings of actual Borla-equipped internal-combustion (ICE) vehicles. Multiple microphones capture all characteristics of ICE audio — including idle, ramps to redline, cruising, throttle lifts, “burbles & pops” and more. Using real-time data from the EV's internal computer, the Borla system generates a hyper-realistic ICE soundtrack that perfectly matches the EV motor status and other vehicle dynamics.

 

[2005Explorer]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

The sounds in Borla's Active Performance Sound product aren't fake.

 

 

 

Ok so it's a fancy noise maker that serves no real purpose. If the noises don't make the car go at best it's a novelty item.

[akirby]

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

The sounds in Borla's Active Performance Sound product aren't fake.

 

If they’re not made by the engine in the vehicle they’re fake just like Milli Vanilli. ?

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

The sounds in Borla's Active Performance Sound product aren't fake.

 

 

 

 

What are you talking about?

 

There's no motor.  There's no exhaust.  There's no exhaust system.

 

Regardless of how they program it to sound, it's fake.  You can argue whether it sounds good, is worth it, etc.....but what cannot be debated is whether it's real sounds from the powertrain.

[akirby]

5 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

What are you talking about?

 

There's no motor.  There's no exhaust.  There's no exhaust system.

 

Regardless of how they program it to sound, it's fake.  You can argue whether it sounds good, is worth it, etc.....but what cannot be debated is whether it's real sounds from the powertrain.

The sounds are real - they were recorded from actual engines.  Not that it makes them less fake on a BEV.

[rmc523]

14 minutes ago, akirby said:

The sounds are real - they were recorded from actual engines.  Not that it makes them less fake on a BEV.

 

Sure.  But that doesn't make it real on that vehicle.

[akirby]

13 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Sure.  But that doesn't make it real on that vehicle.

I agree I’m just explaining his comment.

[Gurgeh]

13 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

Muscle car enthusiasts who enjoy modifying their cars and wrenching on them are going to be wowed by MP3 fake engine noises being played through speakers? 

First off, the future of muscle cars is electric. Not today, maybe not tomorrow, but no traditional engine can compete with the power and torque of a sports car powered by high performance electric motors. Eventually, I hope the expectation for massive noise coming from the power plant will go away as function eventually wins over form. In the meantime, I personally dislike fake sound generated through the speakers to pretend an engine (or motor in the case of electrics) is something it is not. Whenever I hear it I am reminded of the kid down the block from me when I was growing up who used to clip a baseball card with a clothes pin to the arm of his front bicycle wheel with the card sticking into the spokes, making a sound the kid thought made his bicycle sound like a Harley. He also tended to make raspberry sounds with his tongue when riding his bike. Guess that made it a super high-performance Harley.  

Edited August 3, 2023 by Gurgeh

[silvrsvt]

18 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

First off, the future of muscle cars is electric. Not today, maybe not tomorrow, but no traditional engine can compete with the power and torque of a sports car powered by high performance electric motors. Eventually, I hope the expectation for massive noise coming from the power plant will go away as function eventually wins over form. 

 

The problem is that people associate noise with power...cue all the people bitching about how much better the NA powered F1 cars sounded better then their hybrid engines of today. 

 

Its also part of the appeal of HD riders too...if its not noisy it's not powerful.