UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[Deanh]

5 minutes ago, paintguy said:

Oddly enough, many times I did "work" from home, while not on my shift or vacation, giving "free" advice on how to approach a problem. Good times.

I was being literal...lol...a guy with a spray gun wanting to work from home...lol...

[ice-capades]

Much has been made about the new transparency within the UAW internally regarding communications with the membership and how the union will operate in representing its dues paying members in contract and other matters.

 

The new UAW President has set forth an aggressive stance for negotiations with Ford, General Motors and Stellantis that has now resulted in a strike against all three manufacturers at selected facilities. At least initially, these selected plants being struck will have a minor impact, which raises questions and simple curiosity about why these plants were selected in the first place. 

 

The industry has changed dramatically over the years with the “Big 3” having lost substantial market share to foreign/import brands that operate with lower cost, non-union facilities, including those that have rejected UAW representation in recent years.

 

For all the information reported by the media over the past few months, it’s important to separate the public’s perception versus the reality of the current strike situation, including the current contract wages, bonuses, benefits, etc. versus the UAW demands for a new 4-year contract. Based on the current contract information available, I suspect that many Americans would love the opportunity to earn the current contract wages and enjoy the signing bonuses, profit sharing, health care and many other benefits included.

 

The UAW can lament its concessions in previous contracts, but those concessions were a reflection of the market and economic conditions at the time and those contracts were agreed to and ratified by its members. Years later, conditions and future expectations are much different and it’s unrealistic for the UAW to expect the target companies to make up for the UAW concessions made years ago. 

 

The new UAW President has taken a hard-line negotiating position with a long list of demands. While it may seem that he’s trying to represent what’s in the best interest of the UAW membership, at the same time it appears that he has his own agenda in establishing himself as a legendary and historically significant union leader. That will depend on the results of the current contract and strike results.

 

Whatever the new contract terms include, there will be a profound impact on vehicle production costs that will impact customers in the terms of price increases. These price increases will further position the “Big 3” at a big disadvantage in competing with the numerous non-union facilities operated by the foreign/import brands.

 

Ford has submitted 4 proposals to the UAW and disclosed the major terms publicly which the UAW has quickly rejected without any known counterproposals revealed to put the negotiations in perspective. If the UAW President is going to maintain the hard-line position of the companies having to meet the UAW demands, the situation could get ugly quickly.

• If the UAW is sticking to its demands and refusing to negotiate in good faith, the union could face NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) charges.

Ford and the other companies affected by the current strike situation could push back with actions that the UAW wouldn’t expect.

• UAW employees are just that and paid to do a job covered by contract conditions and terms.
• Employees, UAW or not, are not entitled to profit sharing. If they want to share in the company’s profits, let them invest their own money in the company.
• Contract signing bonuses are just another form of bonuses that should be eliminated. The UAW negotiates a contract and the membership approves the terms to ratify the agreement. The signing bonuses should be eliminated.

These are my observations and opinions based on years as a Business Agent for the IATSE (International Alliance of Theatrical Employees) Motion Picture Local in my area.

[Oac98]

32 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

See this

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/

Exactly to my point I would not have made that remark randomly. Throughout their supply chain which I’m sure they were AWARE of this took place. 

[Oac98]

30 minutes ago, Deanh said:

Im sure no one denies you derserve a raise...but how obsurd is 46% ??????????  thats does NO ONE any favors and IS non negotiable, thats as assinine as a Paint guy demanding to be able to work from home....

Anybody who really thinks a 46 % raise and a 32 hour work week are happening are stupid. I work for Ford and I said that bullshit isn’t gonna happening. People are ripe for disappointment if they think a 46 percent raise is gonna happen. It’s called bargaining aim high meet somewhere in the middle pension are a huge issue, tiers, job security. 

[grbeck]

1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

The individual plants could hold an election to decertify the union at that location, they would contact the NLRB with the required 30% of members at the location signature cards and they would schedule a vote.
 

If ONE plant did that the UAW leadership would freak out and settle the strike. It would be settled before NLRB was finished counting the election cards. 

 

The UAW lives in a time gone by. It is why it is such a sought after job for so many and live in the echo chamber of Detroit where everyone thinks of the families that worked generations there and they still have 95% market share as that’s what they see on the road. (Though lately that is changing) You have support  because you never dare say anything bad about the UAW as you’ll get screamed at or asked to leave people’s houses. It’s still the great times of the 1970’s when Detroits fall from grace started.
 

This strike is just another winning a battle but losing the war and shows how out of touch the UAW really is with how much the county has changed. Who cares if I can’t get an Escape or Explorer, I’ll just go get a CRV, Telluride. They are cheaper anyways and also made in the USA. 

 

 

 

 

At one time, the British Motor Corporation was the fourth largest auto manufacturer in the world (behind GM, Ford and Chrysler), and the British auto industry was a force to be reckoned with...these days I find myself hoping that history does not repeat itself on this side of the Atlantic. 

[jasonj80]

58 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

We deserve a raise man, bottom line! Some of the unions demands will not happen but we deserve a raise. Up here in Canada Toyota workers now top out at 39.58 an hour. Are they overpaid too? UNIFOR has rejected two proposals from Ford as well. Maybe we will strike too. Ford got 590 million CAD from our government in 2020 to retool OAC. Biden has given them what like 9.2 billion recently. Is it a sin for the workers to want more of a cut. Fuck Hyundai Kia and their child labor at their suppliers. All these companies have unions in their respective countries. 

I’m not saying you don’t deserve a raise, you defiantly do. But asking for 40% and 32hrs of work plus pensions and healthcare etc is downright insane. It was the UAW that mismanaged the VEBA and now they want the companies to bail out their poor management? Pensions are gone from almost everywhere - short of some states and the military. Their cost is brutal, contributing 55¢+ for every dollar an employee makes. 

 

Sorry but an assembly line worker doesn’t deserve to earn more than a Doctor and at 300k they would make over double what the average family doctor makes.  Also Canada is different than the US as healthcare is covered by the government so the roughly $20,000-$25000 that Ford spends for a single family healthcare plan is a shared cost paid by the company and individual in the way of taxes. Canada also has a lower corporate tax rate than the US. In the US the company pays that cost and the employee doesn’t pay taxes on it (when the AHCA was passed they would have but was changed)

 

Those grants or loans are given to make sure jobs stay in the county and employee people who pay taxes, by making sure the cost becomes competitive not as a handout. They still have to pay back loans and a lot of the time they are just reduced future taxes on the modernization of the plant. It’s not a check written for 500 million dollars 
 

You can say F* Kia blah blah but that is the competition and the Chinese are coming.  That’s the brutal truth; the vast majority of the car buying public could care less that a UAW members have a high paying job they are going to buy the most cost effective vehicle for their lifestyle. Members can have a great job and make $50 a hour at the end of the contract or  can hold a company hostage until it goes bankrupt and have no jobs in a few year as it is moved to Mexico, India or China. Why is absenteeism so high at UAW plants but virtually nonexistent at non UAW plants? The hard truth is UAW breeds an us vs them mentality and it will sink the companies all over again. 
 

 

[Deanh]

13 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Anybody who really thinks a 46 % raise and a 32 hour work week are happening are stupid. I work for Ford and I said that bullshit isn’t gonna happening. People are ripe for disappointment if they think a 46 percent raise is gonna happen. It’s called bargaining aim high meet somewhere in the middle pension are a huge issue, tiers, job security. 

you know the shit Dealerships put up with for playing the same mindless games with consumers?...amatuer hour IMO..its as bad as someone expecting a $300 amonth payment on an 80k Expedition...

Edited September 15, 2023 by Deanh

[akirby]

55 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

See this

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/

Wow, but that wasn’t Kia or Hyundai and it sounded like the employment was voluntary (relatives of other employees) and sounds like they were paid normal wages.  So not quite the same as foreign child labor.

[Oac98]

35 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

I’m not saying you don’t deserve a raise, you defiantly do. But asking for 40% and 32hrs of work plus pensions and healthcare etc is downright insane. It was the UAW that mismanaged the VEBA and now they want the companies to bail out their poor management? Pensions are gone from almost everywhere - short of some states and the military. Their cost is brutal, contributing 55¢+ for every dollar an employee makes. 

 

Sorry but an assembly line worker doesn’t deserve to earn more than a Doctor and at 300k they would make over double what the average family doctor makes.  Also Canada is different than the US as healthcare is covered by the government so the roughly $20,000-$25000 that Ford spends for a single family healthcare plan is a shared cost paid by the company and individual in the way of taxes. Canada also has a lower corporate tax rate than the US. In the US the company pays that cost and the employee doesn’t pay taxes on it (when the AHCA was passed they would have but was changed)

 

Those grants or loans are given to make sure jobs stay in the county and employee people who pay taxes, by making sure the cost becomes competitive not as a handout. They still have to pay back loans and a lot of the time they are just reduced future taxes on the modernization of the plant. It’s not a check written for 500 million dollars 
 

You can say F* Kia blah blah but that is the competition and the Chinese are coming.  That’s the brutal truth; the vast majority of the car buying public could care less that a UAW members have a high paying job they are going to buy the most cost effective vehicle for their lifestyle. Members can have a great job and make $50 a hour at the end of the contract or  can hold a company hostage until it goes bankrupt and have no jobs in a few year as it is moved to Mexico, India or China. Why is absenteeism so high at UAW plants but virtually nonexistent at non UAW plants? The hard truth is UAW breeds an us vs them mentality and it will sink the companies all over again. 
 

 

I’m well informed. There are more factors to absenteeism than you know. Some employees don’t get many vacation days as veterans. How about turnover at these non union plants? I’m sure it’s pretty high. I’m also fully aware of the Chinese and Tesla and all that shit. The industry is changing fast I will say it again there will be no 4 day work week or 46 percent. I also know that the government will recuperate the investment through taxes over time. They move plants all the time and I believe more plants will close regardless of this strike. Sad to say!

[Oac98]

41 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

I’m not saying you don’t deserve a raise, you defiantly do. But asking for 40% and 32hrs of work plus pensions and healthcare etc is downright insane. It was the UAW that mismanaged the VEBA and now they want the companies to bail out their poor management? Pensions are gone from almost everywhere - short of some states and the military. Their cost is brutal, contributing 55¢+ for every dollar an employee makes. 

 

Sorry but an assembly line worker doesn’t deserve to earn more than a Doctor and at 300k they would make over double what the average family doctor makes.  Also Canada is different than the US as healthcare is covered by the government so the roughly $20,000-$25000 that Ford spends for a single family healthcare plan is a shared cost paid by the company and individual in the way of taxes. Canada also has a lower corporate tax rate than the US. In the US the company pays that cost and the employee doesn’t pay taxes on it (when the AHCA was passed they would have but was changed)

 

Those grants or loans are given to make sure jobs stay in the county and employee people who pay taxes, by making sure the cost becomes competitive not as a handout. They still have to pay back loans and a lot of the time they are just reduced future taxes on the modernization of the plant. It’s not a check written for 500 million dollars 
 

You can say F* Kia blah blah but that is the competition and the Chinese are coming.  That’s the brutal truth; the vast majority of the car buying public could care less that a UAW members have a high paying job they are going to buy the most cost effective vehicle for their lifestyle. Members can have a great job and make $50 a hour at the end of the contract or  can hold a company hostage until it goes bankrupt and have no jobs in a few year as it is moved to Mexico, India or China. Why is absenteeism so high at UAW plants but virtually nonexistent at non UAW plants? The hard truth is UAW breeds an us vs them mentality and it will sink the companies all over again. 
 

 

There are so many issues I could go on for days. Also we build these vehicles and can barely afford them. I’m holding on to a 14 year old ford I will drive it till it dies. I’d rather do that than plant down 1000 dollars a month for an overpriced recall riddled new ford! 

[DeluxeStang]

38 minutes ago, grbeck said:

 

At one time, the British Motor Corporation was the fourth largest auto manufacturer in the world (behind GM, Ford and Chrysler), and the British auto industry was a force to be reckoned with...these days I find myself hoping that history does not repeat itself on this side of the Atlantic. 

It's gonna if these people keep doing what they're doing. Farley said this will bankrupt Ford if they were to meet their current demands. He said between the pay raise, and additional benefits, it would be the equivalent of about 300k dollars on average in terms of worker compensation.

 

I appreciate what a lot of these people are doing, but if they think they deserve a dentist level salary for a factory job, then they need to get a grip. They're gonna let their greed destroy their careers. You don't have a job, a paycheck for your family if your employer goes out of business guys, like WTF?

 

If Ford survives this, they, GM, and FCA are gonna be sure to rely more heavily on automation in the future to get rid of these kinds of workers. At this point, I wouldn't really be against that. I'm not against the decent, reasonable workers. I'm against the ones striking because more is never enough who are putting to jobs of hundreds of thousands of people in jeopardy for their own egos. 

[Deanh]

6 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

It's gonna if these people keep doing what they're doing. Farley said this will bankrupt Ford if they were to meet their current demands. He said between the pay raise, and additional benefits, it would be the equivalent of about 300k dollars on average in terms of worker compensation.

 

I appreciate what a lot of these people are doing, but if they think they deserve a dentist level salary for a factory job, then they need to get a grip. They're gonna let their greed destroy their careers. You don't have a job, a paycheck for your family if your employer goes out of business guys, like WTF?

 

If Ford survives this, they, GM, and FCA are gonna be sure to rely more heavily on automation in the future to get rid of these kinds of workers. At this point, I wouldn't really be against that. I'm not against the decent, reasonable workers. I'm against the ones striking because more is never enough who are putting to jobs of hundreds of thousands of people in jeopardy for their own egos. 

mexico should brace themselves to up production significantly....

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

you know the shit Dealerships put up with for playing the same mindless games with consumers?...amatuer hour IMO..its as bad as someone expecting a $300 amonth payment on an 80k Expedition...

Forget the damn Stealership! All they do is try to scam and upsell repairs and stuff good thing I have a mechanic!

Edited September 15, 2023 by Oacjay98

[Oac98]

27 minutes ago, Deanh said:

mexico should brace themselves to up production significantly....

Nothing new 

[T-dubz]

1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

Anybody who really thinks a 46 % raise and a 32 hour work week are happening are stupid. I work for Ford and I said that bullshit isn’t gonna happening. People are ripe for disappointment if they think a 46 percent raise is gonna happen. It’s called bargaining aim high meet somewhere in the middle pension are a huge issue, tiers, job security. 

 

Would you say 20% raise is not meeting in the middle? Between 0 and 46% it’s about as close to the middle as you can get, yet the uaw turned it down. 

[Maislebandit]

1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

Much has been made about the new transparency within the UAW internally regarding communications with the membership and how the union will operate in representing its dues paying members in contract and other matters.

 

The new UAW President has set forth an aggressive stance for negotiations with Ford, General Motors and Stellantis that has now resulted in a strike against all three manufacturers at selected facilities. At least initially, these selected plants being struck will have a minor impact, which raises questions and simple curiosity about why these plants were selected in the first place. 

 

The industry has changed dramatically over the years with the “Big 3” having lost substantial market share to foreign/import brands that operate with lower cost, non-union facilities, including those that have rejected UAW representation in recent years.

 

For all the information reported by the media over the past few months, it’s important to separate the public’s perception versus the reality of the current strike situation, including the current contract wages, bonuses, benefits, etc. versus the UAW demands for a new 4-year contract. Based on the current contract information available, I suspect that many Americans would love the opportunity to earn the current contract wages and enjoy the signing bonuses, profit sharing, health care and many other benefits included.

 

The UAW can lament its concessions in previous contracts, but those concessions were a reflection of the market and economic conditions at the time and those contracts were agreed to and ratified by its members. Years later, conditions and future expectations are much different and it’s unrealistic for the UAW to expect the target companies to make up for the UAW concessions made years ago. 

 

The new UAW President has taken a hard-line negotiating position with a long list of demands. While it may seem that he’s trying to represent what’s in the best interest of the UAW membership, at the same time it appears that he has his own agenda in establishing himself as a legendary and historically significant union leader. That will depend on the results of the current contract and strike results.

 

Whatever the new contract terms include, there will be a profound impact on vehicle production costs that will impact customers in the terms of price increases. These price increases will further position the “Big 3” at a big disadvantage in competing with the numerous non-union facilities operated by the foreign/import brands.

 

Ford has submitted 4 proposals to the UAW and disclosed the major terms publicly which the UAW has quickly rejected without any known counterproposals revealed to put the negotiations in perspective. If the UAW President is going to maintain the hard-line position of the companies having to meet the UAW demands, the situation could get ugly quickly.

• If the UAW is sticking to its demands and refusing to negotiate in good faith, the union could face NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) charges.

Ford and the other companies affected by the current strike situation could push back with actions that the UAW wouldn’t expect.

• UAW employees are just that and paid to do a job covered by contract conditions and terms.
• Employees, UAW or not, are not entitled to profit sharing. If they want to share in the company’s profits, let them invest their own money in the company.
• Contract signing bonuses are just another form of bonuses that should be eliminated. The UAW negotiates a contract and the membership approves the terms to ratify the agreement. The signing bonuses should be eliminated.

These are my observations and opinions based on years as a Business Agent for the IATSE (International Alliance of Theatrical Employees) Motion Picture Local in my area.

The argument isn’t so much about taking concessions when times got hard, or opening contracts midway to save the company. The gripe is that these things were not returned as promised when prosperity was realized and contracts secured thereafter were subject to a less than credible representation of the union’s membership. Not the company’s fault there, you give a dog meat it’s going to eat it. Just saying that’s the general consensus among the rank and file. 

 

Profit sharing and other benefits are absolutely entitled to employees, it’s all whether it’s agreed upon in the contract. 

 

I agree about having no signing bonus. Any contract worth accepting should stand on its own merits and a signing bonus is nothing more than dangling the carrot. 
 

[silvrsvt]

8 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

 

Would you say 20% raise is not meeting in the middle? Between 0 and 46% it’s about as close to the middle as you can get, yet the uaw turned it down. 

 

You have to wonder how much of this is theatrics to show the membership that the UAW is playing hard ball. 

[Deanh]

20 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

You have to wonder how much of this is theatrics to show the membership that the UAW is playing hard ball. 

love that word "theatrics"...seems to pertain to an awful lot of "issues" lately...much like the "squeeky wheel gets the oil...."

[akirby]

52 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

You have to wonder how much of this is theatrics to show the membership that the UAW is playing hard ball. 

I think theatrics would have stopped at midnight.  I think this guy really thinks it’s 1970 and they can just bully their way into getting whatever they want.

[Deanh]

13 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think theatrics would have stopped at midnight.  I think this guy really thinks it’s 1970 and they can just bully their way into getting whatever they want.

wonder exactly what will happen if they ghost him.....

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

 

Would you say 20% raise is not meeting in the middle? Between 0 and 46% it’s about as close to the middle as you can get, yet the uaw turned it down. 

Yes it is and there’s obviously other issues that need settlements, right? 

[akirby]

8 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Yes it is and there’s obviously other issues that need settlements, right? 

None that were reported other than 4 work days for 5 days pay which was a non starter.

Edited September 15, 2023 by akirby

[Maislebandit]

58 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

You have to wonder how much of this is theatrics to show the membership that the UAW is playing hard ball. 

He is the first president that is directly elected by the membership and has to regain trust as those that preceded him were less than honest and transparent. 
I think it’s more about making a solid first impression that he is holding their interests above anything else. 
 

[mackinaw]

18 minutes ago, akirby said:

None that were reported other than 4 work days for 5 days pay which was a non starter.

 

I understand that eliminating tiers is a big one.

 

Fain will probably get a lot of what he wants.  I expect that the rank and file will love this guy and that he'll be president of the UAW for as long as they allow.

[T-dubz]

50 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Yes it is and there’s obviously other issues that need settlements, right? 

"We put an offer in today that's our most generous offer in 80 years of the UAW and Ford," said Farley. "Pay increases, elimination of tiers, inflation protection, five weeks of vacation, 17 paid holidays, bigger contributions for retirement.

 

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/ford-ceo-most-generous-offer-in-80-years-made-to-uaw-as-deadline-looms-for-big-3-workers-suppliers.amp

 

obviously I don’t have the agreement so don’t know exactly what it entails, but this would seem to indicate most demands were met.