akirby Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 hour ago, twintornados said: And you act like people will remain fat, dumb, and blissfully ignorant to the fact that they are being exploited forever at those non-union plants. We are never going to agree with each others view of the situation, but I am happy to debate it. Paying people $55/hr in wages and benefits is exploitation? Millions of people would line up to be exploited like that. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 8 hours ago, twintornados said: And you act like people will remain fat, dumb, and blissfully ignorant to the fact that they are being exploited forever at those non-union plants. The arrogance to believe that people at these plants are "fat, dumb, and blissfully ignorant" says more about you and the other poster that agreed with the post. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Harley Lover said: The arrogance to believe that people at these plants are "fat, dumb, and blissfully ignorant" says more about you and the other poster that agreed with the post. It’s amazing how many people view corporations as evil empires who enslave their employees, make them work for pennies and only make their executives rich. Truth is almost all corporations compete with each other and private businesses for employees, offer excellent wages and benefits and provide rewarding careers for tens of millions of people. Yes, executives make a lot of money but they also manage huge organizations and multi billion dollar budgets. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, akirby said: It’s amazing how many people view corporations as evil empires who enslave their employees, make them work for pennies and only make their executives rich. Truth is almost all corporations compete with each other and private businesses for employees, offer excellent wages and benefits and provide rewarding careers for tens of millions of people. Yes, executives make a lot of money but they also manage huge organizations and multi billion dollar budgets. Im not arguing a CEO should be the highest paid person in an organization, like you said they run the show and in many cases they’re multinational multibillion dollar organizations. The main issue is, and it’s a uniquely American issue, the gap between CEO pay and the average worker is the largest in the world, the largest it’s ever been and it’s only growing larger. That’s why workers are so angry and frustrated right now. I’m not sure why you keep arguing against that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Im not arguing a CEO should be the highest paid person in an organization, like you said they run the show and in many cases they’re multinational multibillion dollar organizations. The main issue is, and it’s a uniquely American issue, the gap between CEO pay and the average worker is the largest in the world, the largest it’s ever been and it’s only growing larger. That’s why workers are so angry and frustrated right now. I’m not sure why you keep arguing against that. Why should an average worker care what the CEO makes? If you want CEO pay, do what the CEO does...work your butt off to get the degree(s), put in the time to climb the ladder, and move up and take on the responsibility. Then you get to be on call 24x7x365, zero free time, zero work/life balance, the list goes on. There's a reason CEO's make what they make. Frankly, I don't want the responsibility nor the time commitment. The only one stopping anyone from being CEO is themselves. If you feel the CEO of your company makes too much, move on to a different company. If there are no better options to move to, then chances are, you're doing pretty well where you are, and maybe that CEO is doing something right to earn his/her pay. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 20 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Hell, there’s plenty of UAW workers who have no problem buying an import. I see plenty of them scattered through the parking lot. Yeah also because ford vehicles are pretty expensive. How many so called affordable vehicles do they have??? Maybe only Maverick and Escape??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schpark Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 This nonsense and the lack of Fusion means my next vehicle will not be a Ford. I have purchased 10 4 wheel vehicles and all of them have been Fords. No more. I'm out. (Sorry Fuzzy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 42 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: Why should an average worker care what the CEO makes? Because as fuzzymoomoo mentioned, extremely high CEO-to-worker pay ratios contribute to economic inequality and can undermine employee morale and productivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 24 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Im not arguing a CEO should be the highest paid person in an organization, like you said they run the show and in many cases they’re multinational multibillion dollar organizations. The main issue is, and it’s a uniquely American issue, the gap between CEO pay and the average worker is the largest in the world, the largest it’s ever been and it’s only growing larger. That’s why workers are so angry and frustrated right now. I’m not sure why you keep arguing against that. fordmantpw nailed it - Why should I be mad about somebody making more money for doing a job I either can’t or won‘t do? That job has nothing to do with my job or my pay. It’s like plumbers being mad that electricians make more money. You chose to be a plumber. If you want electrician pay go be an electrician. Just like great NFL QBs, good CEOs are in high demand for relatively few positions and companies have the money to pay them. If you want to hire a certain CEO you have to offer them more than they are currently making. Likewise you have to keep yours from leaving to go somewhere else. It’s a bidding war and that drives up the price. You’d be shocked at how much time and effort it takes to be a good executive, and CEOs have usually been doing that for 10-15 years or longer before becoming CEO. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Because as fuzzymoomoo mentioned, extremely high CEO-to-worker pay ratios contribute to economic inequality and can undermine employee morale and productivity. Read the rest of my post. Economic inequality? If you want the pay, do the job. Work your way up. Nobody is stopping you. Many successful CEOs have earned their MBA or whatever advanced degree while working full time. If you want it, go get it! This started with the 'everybody gets a trophy' crowd. Mind your own business, do what you do to the best of your ability, and if you don't feel you are fairly compensated, move on. Nobody is forcing you to stay. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Ok so fuck the middle class then, got it ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Ok so fuck the middle class then, got it ?? How? I don't see how that is f*cking the middle class. Should someone working at McDonalds flipping burgers get the same pay and benefit as someone working in a Ford plant? Why or why not? What should the pay difference be? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Autoworker Union President Who Donned 'Eat the Rich' Shirt is in Top 5% of Earners UAW president is racking in hundreds of thousands of dollars while his union's striking members are making $500 a week. https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/autoworker-union-president-who-donned-eat-the-rich-shirt-top-5-earners The president of the United Auto Workers (UAW) labor union leading the ongoing strike against the largest three U.S. automakers earned hundreds of thousands of dollars last year, placing him squarely in a top earning percentile in his home state, according to financial filings reviewed by FOX Business. Shawn Fain — who was elected to lead UAW in March and has been a firebrand proponent of autoworkers — has at least two significant streams of revenue, the filings showed, earning $187,259 a year leading a UAW non-profit training program and another $160,130 per year in his previous role of administrative assistant at the union. Fain's UAW salary likely jumped well above $200,000 per year upon taking over as the union's president earlier this year. "The Big Three want you to believe that what we are asking for is dangerous and unrealistic," Fain remarked in a UAW video released this week. "What is truly unrealistic is to keep making record profits year after year and then think that the workers who made those profits are just going to settle for scraps. What is truly dangerous is for corporations and the billionaire class to continue making out like bandits while the working class gets left further and further behind." "That is why these companies and the corporate media are so desperate to try and convince the American people that unions are the problem," he continued. "We are not the problem. This so-called ‘competition’ is the problem. Corporate greed is the problem. Our solidarity is the solution." Fain's annual salary of $347,389 places him in the top 5% of earners in his home state of Indiana where, according to a Forbes analysis, individuals whose salary exceeds $192,928 per year are in the top 5%. If Fain's new salary as president matches his predecessor, former UAW President Ray Curry, his union income increased to $267,126 and his overall salary — including what he earns from the non-profit UAW Chrysler Skill Development & Training Program — increased to $454,385, a salary that would make him a top 1% earner. Meanwhile, Fain has established himself as the face of the ongoing strike against Ford Motor Company, General Motors and Stellantis, even appearing alongside President Biden for one rally in which he compared automakers to Nazi Germany. The union boss has even donned an "eat the rich" T-shirt at protests and rallies. "They look at me and they see some redneck from Indiana," Fain said during a rally last week. "They look at you and see somebody they would never have over for dinner or let ride on their yacht or let fly on their private jet. They think they know us. But us autoworkers know better." And while striking UAW members are making just $500 a week in substitute pay from the union while they strike, ABC News reported, it is unclear whether Fain himself has taken a pay cut. In an open letter to Fain sent Tuesday, the Mack Trucks Workers Rank-and-File Committee demanded the UAW bump striking workers' pay to $750 a week and that leaders including Fain should accept a pay cut taking their salary to the same level as strikers. "President Fain, if you are unwilling to meet these demands, which correspond to the demands of the membership, then you should step aside and turn over control of the union to the rank and file," the workers wrote to Fain. "It is, after all, we who have the 'final say.'" "To our fellow autoworkers in the Big Three, we call on you to take up this fight yourselves and not allow your strike to be sabotaged by the UAW leadership," the open letter continued. "We have launched our strike in defiance of the apparatus, and we call on you to do the same." On Wednesday, the UAW expanded its strike to Ford's most profitable truck plant in Kentucky. Although leaders have signaled progress in UAW's negotiations with Ford and the other two automakers, Fain has continued to say the companies are failing to meet the union's lofty demands on wages, a modified work week and pension benefits. Fain did not immediately respond to FOX Business's request for comment. Edited October 13, 2023 by ice-capades Additional Content 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: How? I don't see how that is f*cking the middle class. Should someone working at McDonalds flipping burgers get the same pay and benefit as someone working in a Ford plant? Why or why not? What should the pay difference be? I never said that, don’t put words in my mouth. The whole push for fast food workers to get $15+/hour never made sense to me. Those aren’t meant to be long term jobs, those are jobs for high school kids to make a few bucks, older people for something to do after they retire or to make ends meet in between jobs. Big 3 factory jobs were for the longest time the pinnacle of middle class employment, why should that not continue? I’m reasonable with my money trying to raise a family of 5 and I can no longer do so without picking and choosing what bills I can pay on time. That’s not right. We definitely deserve a raise after having stagnant wages for the last decade after the Great Recession. Now that being said I still thing UAW leadership is being entirely unreasonable with their demands, and I’m far from the only one. Go look through the comments on todays YouTube stream. Opinions are starting to change and Shawn Fain doesn’t have the support within the rank and file he thinks he does. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Ok so fuck the middle class then, got it ?? What other people make has no bearing on what you can make. My pay is strictly based on my performance and what other companies are willing to pay for the work I do. This notion that paying CEOs less means more money for the other workers is ridiculous. It’s nothing more than jealousy by people who want equality of outcomes without putting in the time, effort and skill required to get more pay. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers09 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 17 hours ago, rperez817 said: If Ford's action on October 11 was reasonable, KTP workers wouldn't be on strike today. Since your opinion is most likely an assumption, I prefer to focus on facts, especially those from Fuzzymoomoo who is actually involved in the process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 31 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I never said that, don’t put words in my mouth. The whole push for fast food workers to get $15+/hour never made sense to me. Those aren’t meant to be long term jobs, those are jobs for high school kids to make a few bucks, older people for something to do after they retire or to make ends meet in between jobs. Big 3 factory jobs were for the longest time the pinnacle of middle class employment, why should that not continue? I’m reasonable with my money trying to raise a family of 5 and I can no longer do so without picking and choosing what bills I can pay on time. That’s not right. We definitely deserve a raise after having stagnant wages for the last decade after the Great Recession. Now that being said I still thing UAW leadership is being entirely unreasonable with their demands, and I’m far from the only one. Go look through the comments on todays YouTube stream. Opinions are starting to change and Shawn Fain doesn’t have the support within the rank and file he thinks he does. I was using it as a comparison, not putting words in your mouth. CEO > Big 3 Factory Job > Burger Flipper, and the pay should show the difference. That's the point I'm making. You likely do deserve a raise, as do I'm sure many other Americans. However, if the pay and work is that bad, why not look for a different job? Go make $5/hour more somewhere else. If you can't, then maybe it isn't so bad after all. Hey, my performance-based raise last year didn't even cover inflation. I don't complain or strike, I either go to work knowing what I have is pretty good, or find somewhere else that's better. Oh, and what you are feeling is not just UAW workers. It's everyone in the middle class, and it's NOT due to CEO pay. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers09 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 17 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: If the UAW only represented the big 3 then you have an argument, but they represent at hundreds of companies across multiple industries, the vast majority of which are not on strike. That is why regardless of your feeling on the matter the E-board still draws a paycheck. That does add some challenges, but based on what you and your fellow employees are going through at present, if Fain and his staff had similar financial challenges as the employees, who they are pulling out on strike, this and most strikes might be resolved quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 16 hours ago, akirby said: They make almost the same wage ($30/hr) but they don’t get other benefits like free health care - they pay for part of it like every other employee in the US. And the cost of living in rural southern areas gives them more buying power. But you also have to realize there is no other jobs in rural areas where an unskilled laborer can make that kind of money with good benefits. That’s solid middle class and they’re grateful. 12 hours ago, akirby said: Paying people $55/hr in wages and benefits is exploitation? Millions of people would line up to be exploited like that. Well, is it $30 or $55?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I never said that, don’t put words in my mouth. The whole push for fast food workers to get $15+/hour never made sense to me. Those aren’t meant to be long term jobs, those are jobs for high school kids to make a few bucks, older people for something to do after they retire or to make ends meet in between jobs. Big 3 factory jobs were for the longest time the pinnacle of middle class employment, why should that not continue? I’m reasonable with my money trying to raise a family of 5 and I can no longer do so without picking and choosing what bills I can pay on time. That’s not right. We definitely deserve a raise after having stagnant wages for the last decade after the Great Recession. Now that being said I still thing UAW leadership is being entirely unreasonable with their demands, and I’m far from the only one. Go look through the comments on todays YouTube stream. Opinions are starting to change and Shawn Fain doesn’t have the support within the rank and file he thinks he does. The problem is you chose a job with little to no opportunity for advancement. My wife and I both started at entry level positions 37 yrs ago. I had a 4 yr degree, she did not (but got hers later). I’ve been promoted 7 times and make 4 times my starting salary adjusted for inflation. Wife has also been promoted 6 or 7 times and now makes 5 times her original salary. That took hard work, dedication and time. And you may have to change jobs multiple times or move to a different city. Or you start out as an apprentice electrician, become a licensed electrician then start your own business and hire others. That’s how you get ahead in the real world. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, twintornados said: Well, is it $30 or $55?? $30/hr in wages. $55/hr including benefits. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 hours ago, akirby said: It’s amazing how many people view corporations as evil empires who enslave their employees, make them work for pennies and only make their executives rich. Truth is almost all corporations compete with each other and private businesses for employees, offer excellent wages and benefits and provide rewarding careers for tens of millions of people. Yes, executives make a lot of money but they also manage huge organizations and multi billion dollar budgets. I never, ever said Corporations are "evil empires" and I am a proud supporter of the capitalist way of life....if a corporation does well and makes a shit ton of profit, why would they not want to enrich their employees that helped put them there instead of worrying about "enhancing investor value" over all else?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, akirby said: $30/hr in wages. $55/hr including benefits. Oh??? Edited October 13, 2023 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, twintornados said: Oh??? What part of FREE was confusing? They don’t get FREE health care they have to pay for part of it. That still costs the company money along with their other benefits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 34 minutes ago, akirby said: The problem is you chose a job with little to no opportunity for advancement. My wife and I both started at entry level positions 37 yrs ago. I had a 4 yr degree, she did not (but got hers later). I’ve been promoted 7 times and make 4 times my starting salary adjusted for inflation. Wife has also been promoted 6 or 7 times and now makes 5 times her original salary. That took hard work, dedication and time. And you may have to change jobs multiple times or move to a different city. Or you start out as an apprentice electrician, become a licensed electrician then start your own business and hire others. That’s how you get ahead in the real world. I did what I needed to do and got into the apprenticeship program, I’m not your example here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.