UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[fuzzymoomoo]

8 minutes ago, akirby said:

Get raises to cover inflation but the rest should be focused on keeping as many jobs in the US as possible and other benefits that don’t make the labor costs uncompetitive.

COLA would help with that since it’s a variable rate based on inflation. I don’t understand why the companies are so against that. 

[jasonj80]

49 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Yeah, that’s absolutely ridiculous to ask any company to pay for that. 
 

to your first point, he was an international bargaining rep years ago FWIW. 

ah, I was told he was just the plant guy rep there but wasn't in the actual negations. I think a lot of him getting elected was more he wasn't the old guard that kept getting put in jail for various reasons. 

Happy to hear you're getting into skilled trades. Still some BS but a lot less - plus less of the non-motivated co-workers.  

Edited August 4, 2023 by jasonj80

[HotRunrGuy]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

The way I understand the situation is that would be legally considered part time work so the company would be under no legal obligation to continue to provide benefits which opens up a whole different can of worms. 
 

Either way I want no part of a 32 hour work week, I would go stir crazy with that much time off. These 16 hour weeks I’m on now are bad enough. 

 

FWIW, for the last 6 months before I retired, I worked (3) 10's, as 30 hours/week was enough to keep me & my wife on the company health insurance program.

 

What trade you heading into?

 

HRG

Edited August 4, 2023 by HotRunrGuy

[jasonj80]

26 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

COLA would help with that since it’s a variable rate based on inflation. I don’t understand why the companies are so against that. 

It is impossible to do long term financial projections; Had that been in the current contract the companies balance sheets would look very different. In your 3/5 year budget are you forecasting  for 10% wage increase or a 30% wage increase. 

I also heard that one of the things that is being floated about is a double or even triple of the profit sharing % calculation. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

9 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

FWIW, for the last 6 months before I retired, I worked (3) 10's, as 30 hours/week was enough to keep me & my wife on the company health insurance program.

 

What trade you heading into?

 

HRG

If I’m going to work that little hours I need a second job that gets me out of the house. Not necessarily for the money just for something to do. I can’t sit at home, even with hobbies and what not.

 

Electrician. I can’t wait. The next 3 weeks (2 really, on vacation next week starting today) are going to be the longest weeks ever. 

[HotRunrGuy]

5 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Electrician. I can’t wait. The next 3 weeks (2 really, on vacation next week starting today) are going to be the longest weeks ever.

 

Good to hear, IMO a solid choice.  HRG

[fuzzymoomoo]

12 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

It is impossible to do long term financial projections; Had that been in the current contract the companies balance sheets would look very different. In your 3/5 year budget are you forecasting  for 10% wage increase or a 30% wage increase. 

See that makes sense. I’ve never had it put that way. I will say this, expect the worst and hope for the best, we get told that all the time. Petty, yes I know but I can be petty AF. 
 

13 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

I also heard that one of the things that is being floated about is a double or even triple of the profit sharing % calculation. 

I wouldn’t complain about any improvement on the profit sharing formula. Ford has the worst formula for the workers of all of the big 3. 

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Which is why I think he’s unintentionally setting us up for disappointment. It’s fine if he wants to propose that but there’s some things that should be kept behind closed doors for that reason. Had he publicly stuck to the main points of wages, COLA, ending tiers and more vacation/personal time it would be a lot easier to sell any agreement to the members. He’s made it so much harder on the locals, and I am fully aware there will always be a certain percentage that will vote No regardless of how good or bad the deal is. There is such a thing as too much transparency. 

I totally agree you and I both know he’s aiming real high but some of these ideas are gonna come crashing down.  

[jcartwright99]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

COLA would help with that since it’s a variable rate based on inflation. I don’t understand why the companies are so against that. 

 

Because they want to pay you the least amount they can get away with....for the "shareholders"

[jasonj80]

29 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

Because they want to pay you the least amount they can get away with....for the "shareholders"

It has nothing to do it with shareholders. It is impossible to have fiscal responsibility over time when you don' know what your highest fixed costs of an organization are going to be over the life of a contract. I mean I guess it is shareholder value to have the company remain in business but that is also beneficial to the employees as well. 

It is the reason that no industry (including government) does it. There was a reason that it was explicitly not allowed under the terms of the bankruptcy agreement that they had with the federal government for the following contracts consent agreement to bail them out. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by jasonj80

[Deanh]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

This type of rhetoric does nobody any good and mfrs are probably laughing at this.  These tactics only worked in the past when it was a captive market and the UAW built 95% of all the vehicles.  As long as all the mfrs paid the same nobody had an advantage.  But when you have to compete with non union or other union workforces you can’t just write your own check.

 

Get raises to cover inflation but the rest should be focused on keeping as many jobs in the US as possible and other benefits that don’t make the labor costs uncompetitive.

if anything I would say it would have Ford considering more layoffs....asking for the Moon reminds me of old school Sales techniques...present outrageous Payments on a proposed purchase and then scrape the Customer off the ceiling...the good old packed payment scenario....."You cant afford $800 a month on the Fiesta?...how close can you come....."

[Oac98]

16 minutes ago, Deanh said:

if anything I would say it would have Ford considering more layoffs....asking for the Moon reminds me of old school Sales techniques...present outrageous Payments on a proposed purchase and then scrape the Customer off the ceiling...the good old packed payment scenario....."You cant afford $800 a month on the Fiesta?...how close can you come....."

Layoffs where???  

[fuzzymoomoo]

13 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Layoffs where???  

Any of the legacy ICE plants really and probably more salary too.

 

When you think about it they can probably condense the engine plants to either Windsor/Lima, Windsor/Cleveland or Cleveland/Lima and still have enough production capacity for ICE engines to make it to 100% BEV. Same goes for Transmissions. Livonia is a big enough facility they could potentially condense everything into one building. Van Dyke has already been converted to electric motor production. The thing is if that’s really a hill they want to die on with the UAW being so hostile right now. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[Footballfan]

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I think that family protection plan or whatever they want to call it is mind numbingly stupid. Why should it ever be on any company to pay someone to work somewhere else, even if it’s on a volunteer basis? I don’t know who outside of Shawn Fein is asking for this. 

This is simply a resurrection of the jobs bank. 

[Footballfan]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Any of the legacy ICE plants really and probably more salary too.

 

When you think about it they can probably condense the engine plants to either Windsor/Lima, Windsor/Cleveland or Cleveland/Lima and still have enough production capacity for ICE engines to make it to 100% BEV. Same goes for Transmissions. Livonia is a big enough facility they could potentially condense everything into one building. Van Dyke has already been converted to electric motor production. The thing is if that’s really a hill they want to die on with the UAW being so hostile right now. 

I think the UAW should be more concerned with the repatriation of jobs and filling underutilized plants- especially since many of their newer and popular products are being sourced from Mexico (not to mention the Natiulus from China). FRAP, and LAP could definitely use more product. 

[Footballfan]

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I hope I’m wrong but I think the UAW is unintentionally setting up the membership to be disappointed with any agreement that is presented with all these boisterous demands. 

We have to remember that the UAW president is now elected.  If the contract falls short, he'll be voted out.  A lot of people have felt that the UAW was too much in bed with Ford management for the past 25 years.  Another dynamic to look at is UNIFOR.  They are negotiating with the Big 3 at the same time.  Many in the union felt that UNIFOR has done a lot better job for their membership last contract go around than the UAW. 

[akirby]

4 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

A lot of people have felt that the UAW was too much in bed with Ford management for the past 25 years.  

But that’s exactly where they should be.  Neither one survives without the other.  It’s a partnership.  Good leaders understand that and work within the boundaries of what the company is able to do financially and get other benefits.  Being adversarial and making outrageous demands helps nobody.

[fuzzymoomoo]

44 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

We have to remember that the UAW president is now elected.  If the contract falls short, he'll be voted out. 

I get that, and I think he’s overplaying his hand here. 

[HotRunrGuy]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

But that’s exactly where they should be.  Neither one survives without the other.  It’s a partnership.  Good leaders understand that and work within the boundaries of what the company is able to do financially and get other benefits.  Being adversarial and making outrageous demands helps nobody.

 

Just ask 30K Yellow Trucking employees,,,,,,

 

HRG

[jpd80]

16 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

See that makes sense. I’ve never had it put that way. I will say this, expect the worst and hope for the best, we get told that all the time. Petty, yes I know but I can be petty AF. 
 

I wouldn’t complain about any improvement on the profit sharing formula. Ford has the worst formula for the workers of all of the big 3. 

Sounds like Ford, GM & Stellantis want known fixed “costs” from any agreement negotiated, the trick will be getting enough to satisfy the OEMs that they are buying “peace” for the next four years and the rank and file get enough to call it an improvement.

Agree with what jasonj80 said,

Maybe skip COLA but look at an up front payment as a one time “make up” for how inflation has eaten into the current deal in the last 12 months or so and then look at reasonable annual increases of say 3.5%/year which is probably where inflation will sink to. On the profit bonus, I’m not sure you’ll ever get a proper shake from Ford, maybe target a slightly different set of KPIs to get you guys in the best possible place…….(think how managers can get a bonus even if things out of their control happen)

Edited August 5, 2023 by jpd80

[Oac98]

On 8/4/2023 at 12:48 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:

Any of the legacy ICE plants really and probably more salary too.

 

When you think about it they can probably condense the engine plants to either Windsor/Lima, Windsor/Cleveland or Cleveland/Lima and still have enough production capacity for ICE engines to make it to 100% BEV. Same goes for Transmissions. Livonia is a big enough facility they could potentially condense everything into one building. Van Dyke has already been converted to electric motor production. The thing is if that’s really a hill they want to die on with the UAW being so hostile right now. 

Agreed, I’m sure we will likely see consolidation of plants as the years go on and the transition continues.

[jpd80]

5 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Agreed, I’m sure we will likely see consolidation of plants as the years go on and the transition continues.

While the UAW is going after big pay increases and fewer working hours………..

Ford building a big ass BEV truck plant in a right to work state will send shock waves through the UAW.

Or haven’t they noticed that……

Edited August 5, 2023 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

48 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Ford building a big ass BEV truck plant in a right to work state will send shock waves through the UAW.

Or haven’t they noticed that……

UAW leadership is pushing for it to be a union plant. Ford management (publicly, at least) has given zero indication the union will not be allowed to organize the plant. 

[jpd80]

51 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

UAW leadership is pushing for it to be a union plant. Ford management (publicly, at least) has given zero indication the union will not be allowed to organize the plant. 

OK, not meaning to stir things up here.

The unsaid things concern me, why hasn’t Ford come out and confirmed that it will be a UAW site?

Also, Shaun Faint criticised the recent $9.2 billion DOE  loan because there was no labor stipulation in the contract. I think he was hoping to see that to avoid any awkward problems with the new contract.

https://fordauthority.com/2023/06/uaw-pans-9-billion-ford-ev-joint-venture-loan-biden-admin/

 

Could UAW at BOC require agreement to way less in the next contract than Faint has insisted on publicly?

Edited August 6, 2023 by jpd80

[akirby]

41 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

OK, not meaning to stir things up here.

The unsaid things concern me, why hasn’t Ford come out and confirmed that it will be a UAW site?

Because you can’t force a union in a right to work state.