Escape, Edge, TC to be Killed

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

The improvements associated with Ford Escape's MY 2023 refresh aren't enough for the model to stay competitive in a very crowded segment. As Car and Driver said about the PHEV version (which is a much better product than the non-hybrid 1.5L version), 2023 Escape "struggles to make a mark". 

 

Ford is wise to kill it after the current model lifecycle and focus its efforts introducing new BEV models that stand out in the marketplace.

no...they are better off reverting to a GRADUAL ( not flick the switch like they are doing now and getting STUNG financially with the significantslowing of the BEV market and its lack of profitability ) embrace of Electric through an introduction of perhaps a different model utilizing PHEV and / or hybrid drivetrains with BEVs as an alternate choice....GRADUAL being the operative word...this all in attitude was nothing less than a stupid Management decision that literally bought into their own hype...it may ( although I question that comment as well ) be the "future" as some call it, but not right now...far from it...

[paintguy]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

havent heard of any issues barring an initial hiccup with the 1.5...2.0 is bulletproof and one cant speak highly enough of the Hybrid drivetrains.......

Have 2 A and X plans who had terrible problems. One had a 1.5 liter ecoboost which failed requiring a rebuild twice. Now proud owners of a RAV4. Not getting another A plan there. The second had the transmission fail just out of warranty. Replacing with a KIA. 

I did own a 2009 Escape hybrid, I took over  100K miles. When I went to replace, no Escape hybrid. Now that it is reintroduced, no AWD. Priced higher than RAV4 with AWD. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

4 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

The Transit Connect is a great small cargo van that did well, but sales have been declining for several years in a niche market. For the small business market it's served so well, the substantial price increases in recent years haven't helped. 

It also doesn’t help it’s always been imported from Turkey and (currently) Spain so anyone that would want a larger order is basically SoL

[Andrew L]

3 hours ago, Deanh said:

IMPOSSIBLE TO GET.... and a basic van skyrocketed from 27k to 37k....yes you read that correctly...not sure whats going one but literally EVERYONE is leaving the moni van market...Ram, Mercedes, Nissan etc etc...personally I think its a mistake...but 37k is pretty hard to quantify....that and an absolutely HORRIBLE transmission....

 

Ok yikes on that price jump but as others pointed out with the chicken tax is there really no plant in North America where they could build it?  It seems silly that the ONLY place it can be built is Turkey and Spain and nowhere in North America.

[T-dubz]

57 minutes ago, akirby said:

It doesn’t have to “fill the gap” for every buyer.  The gap in sales volume will be filled by whatever replaces it in Louisville.  Just like Ranger and Bronco replaced Focus.

Sure, not for every buyer, but the original plan for the escape and bronco sport was to have two entries in the same segment that catered to different buyers, while sharing parts to lower costs. Without the escape,is the bronco sport financially sustainable? The ev replacement will surely be on a different platform so it won’t help. I guess the maverick could fill the escapes role as it shares parts as well, but I still think dropping awd and thus the price 2-3k would bring in plenty of buyers to offset the loss of escape. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

6 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

 Without the escape,is the bronco sport financially sustainable? The ev replacement will surely be on a different platform so it won’t help. I guess the maverick could fill the escapes role as it shares parts as well, but I still think dropping awd and thus the price 2-3k would bring in plenty of buyers to offset the loss of escape. 

The platform has been on sale in the market for going on 4 years, if it hasn’t been paid for by now there’s a serious problem. 

[Deanh]

58 minutes ago, Andrew L said:

 

Ok yikes on that price jump but as others pointed out with the chicken tax is there really no plant in North America where they could build it?  It seems silly that the ONLY place it can be built is Turkey and Spain and nowhere in North America.

correct me if Im wrong, but its chassis was a beefed up Focus chassis...and they were manufactured in Hermisillo if I recall....

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, paintguy said:

Have 2 A and X plans who had terrible problems. One had a 1.5 liter ecoboost which failed requiring a rebuild twice. Now proud owners of a RAV4. Not getting another A plan there. The second had the transmission fail just out of warranty. Replacing with a KIA. 

I did own a 2009 Escape hybrid, I took over  100K miles. When I went to replace, no Escape hybrid. Now that it is reintroduced, no AWD. Priced higher than RAV4 with AWD. 

ugh...not good to hear...Im just mirroring what I see in our Servide Dept...never see too many Escpaes in fro anything more than regular maintenence..but I do recall initially there were some 1.5 issues and a head gasket issue on some 2.0's...from what I see those are no longer issues...

[DeluxeStang]

Hopefully the EV replacing the escape is some sort of baby mach-e or something. Some great looking, fun to drive relatively affordable BEV compact crossover that manages to set itself apart from the Bronco sport. 

 

The escape just didn't have a reason to exist compared to its platform mates maverick and BS. There was nothing about it that had the "Gotta have it" qualities a successful product needs. Let's hope it's replacement isn't just some generic EV blob sold in fifteen shades of black or white with 100 hp and 150 miles of range. 

[DeluxeStang]

8 minutes ago, Deanh said:

ugh...not good to hear...Im just mirroring what I see in our Servide Dept...never see too many Escpaes in fro anything more than regular maintenence..but I do recall initially there were some 1.5 issues and a head gasket issue on some 2.0's...from what I see those are no longer issues...

Yeah, and I believe the 2.5 hybrids, same setup as our maverick, are supposed to be pretty reliable as well, some would even say very reliable. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

13 minutes ago, Deanh said:

correct me if Im wrong, but its chassis was a beefed up Focus chassis...and they were manufactured in Hermisillo if I recall....

What, Focus? No, the only source for North America for Focus was MAP. TC for North America has never been sourced anywhere but Turkey and Spain. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[Deanh]

49 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

What, Focus? No, the only source for North America for Focus was MAP. TC for North America has never been sourced anywhere but Turkey and Spain. 

ok got it..mixing it up with the Fusion.but wasnt the TC based on a beefed up Focus chassis...?

Edited August 31, 2023 by Deanh

[Deanh]

50 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Yeah, and I believe the 2.5 hybrids, same setup as our maverick, are supposed to be pretty reliable as well, some would even say very reliable. 

one only needs to check when New York uyilized hybrid Escapes as Taxis...apparently some of the mileages were unreal..

Edited August 31, 2023 by Deanh

[BoomerSooner]

In my family, we've had 3 Fusion/corporate twins.  Gone.  We've had 3 Edges.  Gone.  We've had 4 Escapes (a 5th on the way).  Now apparently also gone.  So my future is going to have about 150-mile real-world range with long "refueling" times? 

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

ok got it..mixing it up with the Fusion.but wasnt the TC based on a beefed up Focus chassis...?

AFAIK the only thing that was shared was the front structure and front floor pan. 

[Andrew L]

58 minutes ago, BoomerSooner said:

In my family, we've had 3 Fusion/corporate twins.  Gone.  We've had 3 Edges.  Gone.  We've had 4 Escapes (a 5th on the way).  Now apparently also gone.  So my future is going to have about 150-mile real-world range with long "refueling" times? 

 

I've owned:

 

1999 Mercury Sable - Dead Model and Dead brand

2004 Lincoln LS - Dead Model

2008 Ford Focus - Dead Model

2013 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid - Dead Model

2017 Lincoln MKZ 3.0T AWD Black Label (current) - Dead Model

2004 Lincoln Aviator Ultimate AWD (current) - Apparently dead soon unless the EV replacement keeps the name

 

Apparently I really like Ford products that they don't like making anymore. 

[Rangers09]

4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

The improvements associated with Ford Escape's MY 2023 refresh aren't enough for the model to stay competitive in a very crowded segment. As Car and Driver said about the PHEV version (which is a much better product than the non-hybrid 1.5L version), 2023 Escape "struggles to make a mark". 

 

Ford is wise to kill it after the current model lifecycle and focus its efforts introducing new BEV models that stand out in the marketplace.

 

Personally, I couldn't care less what car & driver thought of the vehicle, as I have no doubt our expectations and needs are somewhat different to the reviewers. We have a 23 Escape PHEV and are extremely happy with it. Bringing new BEV's to market is only a sound business decision if the majority of the market wants those products. If Ford are stupid enough to put ICE models out to pasture to focus entirely on BEV's, I guess time will tell if that was a wise decision. However, they will have lost at least 1 customer and I have been purchasing Fords on 2 continents for almost 50 years. In the past 10 years, I have purchased 8 new Fords, as a retail customer. 

 

With respect to staying competitive, in our market, Escapes, especially the PHEV are flying off the dealer's lot, provided Ford can build them. BEV's not so much, drove past one of the other local dealers yesterday, and they had almost a dozen Mach E's on the lot, all dealer stock with blue WS. Why kill off the vehicle that is selling for the one taking up space on the lot?????

 

Since they aren't selling the BEV's as quickly as expected, they better keep the ICE products, as that is what is covering the capital costs and huge operational losses on your BEV's. If Ford were smart, they would significantly expand their PHEV options, so each model has this option, until the BEV technology improves to the extent they are readily accepted by the majority of vehicle purchasers. Right now sales figures indicate they aren't even close.

 

Based on our experience, the PHEV is an excellent transition from an ICE vehicle to possibly going BEV. With 2-months experience with the PHEV, we are very comfortable with the technology around town and once they improve the technology and expand charging stations, I can see us at least possibly considering a BEV in the future (5+ yrs)

 

I will certainly be watching the August sales figures to see how BEV sales are progressing, as the excuse of being unable to build them is no longer valid, as numerous options are now available on dealer lots. My dealer has multiple Dealer Stock Lightnings & Mach E in stock, and in transit.

[Rangers09]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Hopefully the EV replacing the escape is some sort of baby mach-e or something. Some great looking, fun to drive relatively affordable BEV compact crossover that manages to set itself apart from the Bronco sport. 

 

The escape just didn't have a reason to exist compared to its platform mates maverick and BS. There was nothing about it that had the "Gotta have it" qualities a successful product needs. Let's hope it's replacement isn't just some generic EV blob sold in fifteen shades of black or white with 100 hp and 150 miles of range. 

 

Now on our 4th Escape, if the model is cut, neither the Bronco Sport or Maverick would be an option for us. Bronco just not interested, our opinion of that model is similar to your opinion of the Escape. With respect to the Maverick, it just wouldn't make the cut for an Escape alternative. Doesn't have the same flexibility as the Escape and I don't need another truck, as I have the F-450 for truck stuff. 

[paintguy]

3 hours ago, Deanh said:

ugh...not good to hear...Im just mirroring what I see in our Servide Dept...never see too many Escpaes in fro anything more than regular maintenence..but I do recall initially there were some 1.5 issues and a head gasket issue on some 2.0's...from what I see those are no longer issues...

Hope you are right. I've lost 2 and even my wife refuses to look at Escape/Corsair. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

AFAIK the only thing that was shared was the front structure and front floor pan. 

The dash was identical to Focus and Escape.

[rmc523]

 

7 hours ago, akirby said:

I agree it doesn’t make sense to me right now but if it’s true they’re killing Escape then it stands to reason they’ll kill Corsair as well - and maybe that’s why Corsair wasn’t updated.  Which means they’re converting Louisville to BEV production.

 

On the bright side this should free up hybrid powertrains for Bronco Sport and Maverick.  And it would explain not moving Nautilus to Louisville.

 

But it makes me really nervous about Lincoln’s future.

 

Yeah, with literally half of their lineup potentially being cancelled and swapped to slower-selling BEVs, and more importantly no additional models (that we know of) to help GROW the brand, I'm not seeing a positive future for the brand, which is crazy considering just a few years ago we were really excited about the new products and the future finally looked bright!

 

6 hours ago, ANTAUS said:

As sales of the Camry and Accord have dropped, many of their buyers migrated to the CRV and Rav4 which is understandable.  Ford dropped Fusion, and with the Escape exiting, what is the typical Ford buyer expected to migrate to if there's no Escape or Edge?  Make a $15-20K jump to an Explorer?

 

That's the problem - eventually any segment could be come "commodity", so I guess Ford will just abandon segments forever until nothing is left.

 

6 hours ago, T-dubz said:

I’m fine with the escape going away, but the bronco sport needs some changes if it’s going to fill the gap. It needs an updated interior with better materials and a larger screen.  Make awd optional on all but badlands trims. This should improve fuel economy which might improve cafe, and lower the price of entry, which would expand the potential pool of customers. 
 

I see big bend BS all the time, but I’ve never seen outer banks or badlands. At least in my area, it would seem that customers don’t see the value in the upper trims. It’s also missing several options that are found on the escape and its competitors. 
 

And I can’t talk about BS without mentioning this, make the 2.0 optional on all trims! Make a hybrid optional on all trims except badlands.

 

If all of these changes were made, I could see the BS make it into the top 3 of its segment.

 

So basically you're suggesting remove just about everything that makes it Bronco and then it'll be good haha.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

The dash was identical to Focus and Escape.

Escape and C-Max actually. Focus dash was a little different.  I think the front door panels were the same too. 
 

I was strictly thinking body components earlier but you are correct there were some shared interior bits. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, Deanh said:

one only needs to check when New York uyilized hybrid Escapes as Taxis...apparently some of the mileages were unreal..

Indeed, I believe the newer 2.5s made some changes that should improve longevity even further. Like switching from air cooked to liquid cooked components. They also changed from nickel to lithium ion battery packs, which supposedly hold up better over time. 

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, Rangers09 said:

 

Now on our 4th Escape, if the model is cut, neither the Bronco Sport or Maverick would be an option for us. Bronco just not interested, our opinion of that model is similar to your opinion of the Escape. With respect to the Maverick, it just wouldn't make the cut for an Escape alternative. Doesn't have the same flexibility as the Escape and I don't need another truck, as I have the F-450 for truck stuff. 

I'd argue the maverick is more flexible than the escape, as it has a pretty decently sized interior with the open cargo space. I assume that your f-450 takes on pretty heavy truck duty, hence why you have an f-450 in the first place. But if you're ever in a position where you don't really need to tow anything super heavy anymore, I highly recommend the maverick. Ours replaced a Kia Rio, best decision ever, it's basically two cars in one for half the price of many modern cars. 

[Gurgeh]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

I agree it doesn’t make sense to me right now but if it’s true they’re killing Escape then it stands to reason they’ll kill Corsair as well - and maybe that’s why Corsair wasn’t updated.  Which means they’re converting Louisville to BEV production.

 

On the bright side this should free up hybrid powertrains for Bronco Sport and Maverick.  And it would explain not moving Nautilus to Louisville.

 

But it makes me really nervous about Lincoln’s future.

Unless Lincoln wants to drop down to just 3 vehicles after next year (if the reports are accurate), they could always do the Nautilus thing and import the Corsair from China, where the vehicle continues to get updates, where it is well supported with smart marketing, and where it sells well. Thinking about it, the 2024 Nautilus might be so much more refined because it was originally designed just for the Chinese market. An imported Corsair might similarly benefit. Lincoln in North America looks increasingly like an afterthought.