It still seems like getting rid of the Fusion was a mistake.

[LSchicago]

On 10/24/2023 at 2:06 PM, DeluxeStang said:

Not bad, those wheels look surprisingly natural on the mav. I personally think the XLT in area 51 is the most unique and best looking spec. But I'm a bit biased ?.

 

My Favorite Factory wheels for a Maverick are these BS Outer Banks wheels and the 20" Mach E GT wheels. These were my top choice, as I really don't want too low of a profile on a truck. Deal was right, and they were driving distance for pickup. When these 225/60 tires wear, I will replace with 235/65's for a bit more sidewall and less wheel gap. Area 51 is a nice color, but too Pastel for me. I might like the Azure metallic more. Carbonized Gray would've been my second choice. When the light hits right, it is a great color. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by LSchicago

[atomcat68]

On 10/20/2023 at 4:05 PM, rmc523 said:

 

but I'm calling the segment "cedan" - just like "crossover" didn't exist years ago.

Ford Five Hundred was there first.

[rperez817]

5 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

Ford Five Hundred was there first.

 

Unfortunately, "first" in this particular example also ranks among the worst new product introductions from Ford in the past 30 years. It's what Dan Neil described as a "lamentable rentable" in his review of Five Hundred's twin, Mercury Montego. A senior moment - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

 

Over and over, it’s a car that fumbles the fundamentals. The seats, for example. They are, first of all, big and flat and unsupportive, so that despite eight ways to adjust it, the driver’s seat never gets comfortable. Meanwhile, this car was designed as a kind of sedan qua SUV, offering drivers the high seating position and commanding sightlines of a sport-utility while retaining the virtues of a sedan. If you see one of these in a parking deck you will notice its roof crests a couple inches higher than those of the cars around it.

I have my doubts about this SUV-seating idea even in theory. In practice, the seat’s raised H point (hip point) puts the driver in an awkwardly elevated position so that you never feel quite like you are sitting in the car so much as sitting on it. The seat itself feels like one of those extra-high hospital toilets. Where is the nurse call button?

These cars -- the Five Hundred and the Montego -- are intended to be mainstream, high-volume products that will supplant the Taurus/Sable twins, which remain in production at the moment. My question: Has Ford ever seen the competition? They are gorillas and these cars are organ-grinder monkeys with little hats. I’m trying to imagine the family-sedan buyer making his way down Glendale’s Brand Boulevard, test-driving cars as he goes, and alighting on the Montego. I’m still trying.

[AM222]

On 10/24/2023 at 12:08 AM, Rick73 said:

On subject of tall sedans, Mercedes and BMW already have new designs in 59~61 inch range, making them pretty close to old Honda Crosstour.  I suppose it’s not entirely surprising when we see how buyers prefer Tesla Model Y over Model 3 even though they are similar in many ways with biggest difference being height.  A tall sedan in middle may very well be a great compromise.

The Crosstour would have worked if it had better proportions. 

The Ford Evos uses the same concept of a fastback CUV based on a sedan and it looks better than most. 

I still think this would be a good replacement for both the Fusion and the 2-row North American Edge. It's literally between a Fusion sedan and an Edge CUV/SUV. It also manages to look sportier than a Mach E.

Edited October 26, 2023 by AM222

[silvrsvt]

8 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Unfortunately, "first" in this particular example also ranks among the worst new product introductions from Ford in the past 30 years. It's what Dan Neil described as a "lamentable rentable" in his review of Five Hundred's twin, Mercury Montego. A senior moment - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

 

Dan Neil is an insufferable asshole anyways, but he summed up the seating issue with the old 500/Montego. 

 

But at the same time the seating issue was corrected in 2010+ Taurus. I know for a fact that the entry point and seating position was similar to an Escape of the same era. 

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, AM222 said:

I still think this would be a good replacement for both the Fusion and the 2-row North American Edge. It's literally between a Fusion sedan and an Edge CUV/SUV. It also manages to look sportier than a Mach E.

 

I'm not sold that a non-two box form factor would sell in any numbers as an Edge replacement here...its too much like a station wagon, which doesn't sell in the US. 

 

I like it but I just don't think the general public would actually buy in it in numbers. 

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I'm not sold that a non-two box form factor would sell in any numbers as an Edge replacement here...its too much like a station wagon, which doesn't sell in the US. 

 

I like it but I just don't think the general public would actually buy in it in numbers. 

I don’t see much station wagon in that design, at least from front.  I like it, and if it has a liftback would function similar to a Tesla Model Y.  I don’t really care much what a vehicle gets labeled.  I like function like old Merkur with large hatchback and seats that folded flat.  Granted, Merkur didn’t sell well, but likely for other reasons.  ? 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I'm not sold that a non-two box form factor would sell in any numbers as an Edge replacement here...its too much like a station wagon, which doesn't sell in the US. 

 

I like it but I just don't think the general public would actually buy in it in numbers. 

I just posted that question to edge owners on multiple forums/pages.

[akirby]

8 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

I don’t see much station wagon in that design, at least from front. 

That makes no sense considering the wagon part is in the rear.

[Rick73]

9 minutes ago, akirby said:

That makes no sense considering the wagon part is in the rear.

Maybe I didn’t understand his comment, because the picture shows a roofline that drops off way too low for a wagon.

 

I looked at other pictures from rear and car above doesn’t look like wagon at all to me.  I like it, though can’t see if it’s a hatchback or not.

[HotRunrGuy]

11 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Maybe I didn’t understand his comment, because the picture shows a roofline that drops off way too low for a wagon.

 

 

Agreed. People seem to forget that the U in SUV used to stand for utility,  this Evo is nothing more than a hatchback. 

 

HRG

[akirby]

26 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Maybe I didn’t understand his comment, because the picture shows a roofline that drops off way too low for a wagon.

 

I looked at other pictures from rear and car above doesn’t look like wagon at all to me.  I like it, though can’t see if it’s a hatchback or not.

You said it didn’t look like a wagon from the front.

[akirby]

Jack of all trades, master of none comes to mind.  Not enough utility for edge fans and too high for fusion fans.

 

Early feedback from Edge owners is pretty bad.

[LSchicago]

21 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

Ford Five Hundred was there first.

Actually, The AMC eagle was the first raised sedan that I know of. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by LSchicago
Add pic

[Chrisgb]

24 minutes ago, akirby said:

Jack of all trades, master of none comes to mind.  Not enough utility for edge fans and too high for fusion fans.

 

Early feedback from Edge owners is pretty bad.

Sport Unusable Vehicle.

[markfnc]

We just replaced our 2013 Taurus with 240,000 miles for my wife.  she wanted a "car" not an suv/cuv.  we test drove Malibu; she thought it seemed too small. Test drove Altima/Camry/Honda all base models in high 20's to 30k. All seemed too low to her compared to Taurus. Also, being "old" $30k for base sedan seemed high in cost.  So, we ended up with a lower milage 2018 Taurus with leather seats.  More tech, same basic car. she is happy.  We would have got a new Fusion if one was available. 

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

 I like it, and if it has a liftback would function similar to a Tesla Model Y. 

 

The Tesla Model Y and X look like bloated tick versions of their sedan counterparts and sell because they are EVs....so shoots that idea down. 

[Rick73]

19 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The Tesla Model Y and X look like bloated tick versions of their sedan counterparts and sell because they are EVs....so shoots that idea down. 

Since both Model Y and 3 are EVs, that in itself doesn’t explain why Model Y now out-sells Model 3.  I owned both a station wagon and a hatchback for many years, and both served me quite well.  The wagon was a bit more spacious to haul cargo (and a very large dog) but the hatchback met all my other needs.  I could load some items in longer hatchback that didn’t fit in wagon.

 

I like hatchbacks and they happen to offer greater aerodynamic potential than a wagon, while providing much of the same utility.  I would not hesitate buying a hatchback again, though Tesla Model Y is too large and expensive for my present needs. 

[rperez817]

41 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The Tesla Model Y and X look like bloated tick versions of their sedan counterparts and sell because they are EVs....so shoots that idea down. 

 

13 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Since both Model Y and 3 are EVs, that in itself doesn’t explain why Model Y now out-sells Model 3. 

 

In comparison to their sedan counterparts, Tesla Model Y and X benefit from the ongoing crossover craze and the active lifestyle image that goes with it. As with many crossovers from other automakers, the fact that both of these Tesla models have bloated, hideous exterior styling isn't an issue for consumers.

[Rick73]

As a side note, it appears Toyota can’t supply Hybrid Camry to Australia fast enough.  Don’t know what’s driving the high demand for hybrid variant, but 50+ MPG (US) for a car that size probably helps.

 

https://www.just-auto.com/news/toyota-australia-halts-camry-hybrid-orders/

[Rick73]

9 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

As with many crossovers from other automakers, the fact that both of these Tesla models have bloated, hideous exterior styling isn't an issue for consumers.

Bloated yes, hideous I’m not sure I agree.  As previously discussed, a middle ground between them may work OK or best, and hopefully is what Model 2 will become but in smaller size.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

As a side note, it appears Toyota can’t supply Hybrid Camry to Australia fast enough.  Don’t know what’s driving the high demand for hybrid variant, but 50+ MPG (US) for a car that size probably helps.

 

https://www.just-auto.com/news/toyota-australia-halts-camry-hybrid-orders/

Camry hybrid and RAV4 hybrids are both in short supply for Australia (up to12-18 months wait on the latter)

Hybrids and BEVs attract a tax benefit in Australia but the big issue for Toyota and other manufacturers is available shipping space, many vehicles are sold well in advance of delivery with 6-12 months wait not uncommon.

Edited October 26, 2023 by jpd80

[rmc523]

19 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

Ford Five Hundred was there first.

 

Lol - I am not trying to invent a new type of model - as has been pointed out, there have been products similar before - i'm giving the SEGMENT a name - sedan with a C - CEDAN.

 

 

7 hours ago, AM222 said:

The Crosstour would have worked if it had better proportions. 

The Ford Evos uses the same concept of a fastback CUV based on a sedan and it looks better than most. 

I still think this would be a good replacement for both the Fusion and the 2-row North American Edge. It's literally between a Fusion sedan and an Edge CUV/SUV. It also manages to look sportier than a Mach E.

 

EVOS I think is larger, therefore longer, - longer spreads out proportions better to make it look sportier.

 

EVOS would NOT work as an Edge replacement - I think it'd do ok as a Fusion replacement.

 

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Since both Model Y and 3 are EVs, that in itself doesn’t explain why Model Y now out-sells Model 3.  I owned both a station wagon and a hatchback for many years, and both served me quite well.  The wagon was a bit more spacious to haul cargo (and a very large dog) but the hatchback met all my other needs.  I could load some items in longer hatchback that didn’t fit in wagon.

 

I like hatchbacks and they happen to offer greater aerodynamic potential than a wagon, while providing much of the same utility.  I would not hesitate buying a hatchback again, though Tesla Model Y is too large and expensive for my present needs. 

 

Y and 3 are pretty close size wise - for me, I find the rear hatch on the Y far more practical than the oddly shaped trunk/small trunk opening on the 3.

[akirby]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Since both Model Y and 3 are EVs, that in itself doesn’t explain why Model Y now out-sells Model 3.  

That’s the easiest question in the history of questions.  Y is cheaper.

[rperez817]

29 minutes ago, akirby said:

That’s the easiest question in the history of questions.  Y is cheaper.

 

And that "answer" is the easiest one in the history of answers to refute.

 

Model 3:

 

Model Y:

Edited October 26, 2023 by rperez817