It still seems like getting rid of the Fusion was a mistake.

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

I'd say Subaru is one the worst brand in terms of reliability issues.

 

Subaru was midpack in last year's Consumer Reports reliability survey.

 

[Deanh]

Subarus are exceptionally popular with the LBGTQ crowd.....I have a few friends I give crap....

Edited October 31, 2023 by Deanh

[silvrsvt]

21 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

But, they're Japanese, and your average consumer is dumb. Subaru is one of those brands where they have a strong perception of making good cars, that perception trumps reality. On the styling front, I agree entirely, even their latest concept car looks pretty terrible all things considered. 

 

Long term I see them losing their identity and will be nothing more then rebadged Toyotas, who is their controlling owner now. 

[rperez817]

10 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Long term I see them losing their identity and will be nothing more then rebadged Toyotas

 

That's the case nowadays with Subaru's kei cars in the Japan Domestic Market. They're all rebadged products from Toyota's Daihatsu division.

[silvrsvt]

9 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's the case nowadays with Subaru's kei cars in the Japan Domestic Market. They're all rebadged products from Toyota's Daihatsu division.

 

Or this RAV4 EV LOL

[AM222]

42 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's the case nowadays with Subaru's kei cars in the Japan Domestic Market. They're all rebadged products from Toyota's Daihatsu division.

Most JDM Kei cars are rebadged models because these tiny vehicles are limited to a small market. Too expensive for each brand to develop their own JDM Kei car.
Subaru & Toyota = rebadged Daihatsu
Nissan = rebadged Mitsubishi
Mazda = rebadged Suzuki
Honda = no kei car twin 

 

[AM222]

The Camry lives on with a new gen model based on the outgoing model (think S550 and S650 Mustang). 


The current Camry is the best-selling sedan in the USA, and the second best-selling Toyota. The only Ford to outsell the Camry is the F-series. 

Ford sells an all-new Mondeo in China and the Middle East (where it is known as the Taurus).

Edited November 15, 2023 by AM222

[twintornados]

4 hours ago, AM222 said:

Ford sells an all-new Mondeo in China and the Middle East (where it is known as the Taurus).

 

 I find myself yearning to own a sedan again, but alas....Ford does not sell one in North America anymore...I refuse to buy a Toyota, but man, the new Crown is nice.

[stromberg2]

20 hours ago, AM222 said:

The Camry lives on with a new gen model based on the outgoing model (think S550 and S650 Mustang). 


The current Camry is the best-selling sedan in the USA, and the second best-selling Toyota. The only Ford to outsell the Camry is the F-series. 

Ford sells an all-new Mondeo in China and the Middle East (where it is known as the Taurus).

I still think this is a good looking car!

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, stromberg2 said:

I still think this is a good looking car!

It is, the front end needs to be tweaked a little bit, it's too blunt and overstyled compared to the rest of the car. But overall, solid design. It almost looks like they wanted to combined the sportiness of the fusion, and the muscular feel of the Tarus into one design. 

[akirby]

8 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

It is, the front end needs to be tweaked a little bit, it's too blunt and overstyled compared to the rest of the car. But overall, solid design. It almost looks like they wanted to combined the sportiness of the fusion, and the muscular feel of the Tarus into one design. 

I like it but then again I think the 2nd Gen Fusion still looks better than all the new ones.

[DeluxeStang]

8 hours ago, akirby said:

I like it but then again I think the 2nd Gen Fusion still looks better than all the new ones.

The 2nd gen is very attractive, the kind of design you look at, and say "Whoever penned that deserves a raise". This newer car definitely went for the aggressive and sporty look, compared to the old fusion's restrained and elegant lines. If they redesigned the front end, and modeled it after the s650, with slightly softer lines, if would look a lot better. The thing that throws me off about this new design is the trend of placing the DRL's above the headlights. That can work on some CUV's if it's well executed, but it looks awkward and unnecessary on a sedan. 

 

But I actually prefer the body side and overall proportions on this more than the old fusion. 

[Footballfan]

20 hours ago, stromberg2 said:

I still think this is a good looking car!

This would be a good fit for Flat Rock.  

[jpd80]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:41 PM, twintornados said:

 

 I find myself yearning to own a sedan again, but alas....Ford does not sell one in North America anymore...I refuse to buy a Toyota, but man, the new Crown is nice.

New Mondeo would have to be the apex of Ford’s larger FWD/AWD car offerings,

such a shame there’s no opportunity for China to export these in LHD and RHD

in similar fashion to what Ford does with Mustang (grouping countries together).

 

Not meaning to ram it down people’s throat but surely there’s a way for Ford to

generate more sales using its existing global resources…..

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

On 10/29/2023 at 6:39 AM, ExplorerDude said:

The amount of product programs started and then shelved is probably somewhere in the 15 to 20 range. What will really be interesting is to see how many Model E programs are now shelved or paused.

Jesus, 15-20 models, what the hell is going on with Ford's upper management. I'm guessing most the shelved products are commodity products, like two row crossovers, which Ford is trying to cut back on, or odd passion projects that didn't have enough of an audience. 

[AM222]

15 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Jesus, 15-20 models, what the hell is going on with Ford's upper management. I'm guessing most the shelved products are commodity products, like two row crossovers, which Ford is trying to cut back on, or odd passion projects that didn't have enough of an audience. 

Ford should hand the development of what it calls "commodity products" to Ford Australia and China. I believe Ford can still squeeze out a generation of new vehicles on the C2 platform.  

Every time Ford exists a segment, it's usually because they let that model lag behind and become less competitive. 
 

[fuzzymoomoo]

4 hours ago, AM222 said:

Every time Ford exists a segment, it's usually because they let that model lag behind and become less competitive. 

Fusion is kind of the odd man out in that argument. Looks aside, they gave it just about every feature Ford had to offer at the time its last model year. 

[akirby]

4 hours ago, AM222 said:

Ford should hand the development of what it calls "commodity products" to Ford Australia and China. I believe Ford can still squeeze out a generation of new vehicles on the C2 platform.  

Every time Ford exists a segment, it's usually because they let that model lag behind and become less competitive. 
 

But the reason they let a model lag behind is usually that it’s already not very profitable.  You don’t see them doing it with F series.  

[akirby]

29 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Fusion is kind of the odd man out in that argument. Looks aside, they gave it just about every feature Ford had to offer at the time its last model year. 

I was impressed that Ford had hybrid and PHEV models and AWD and even offered a manual for awhile.  And fully loaded Titanium’s.  Then they added the 2.7Leb in 2017.  But the take rate on the more expensive models and options wasn’t very high.  Seems most buyers just wanted cheap basic transportation so Ford never recovered the cost of that expensive Mondeo platform.  From a business standpoint they would have been more successful following Camry and keeping the cd3 platform without all the bells and whistles and keeping costs lower.  But on paper it seemed like a good move to differentiate it from the competition.  Buyers just didn’t cooperate. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by akirby

[fuzzymoomoo]

19 minutes ago, akirby said:

I was impressed that Ford had hybrid and PHEV models and AWD and even offered a manual for awhile.  And fully loaded Titanium’s.  Then they added the 2.7Leb in 2017.  But the take rate on the more expensive models and options wasn’t very high.  Seems most buyers just wanted cheap basic transportation so Ford never recovered the cost of that expensive Mondeo platform.  From a business standpoint they would have been more successful following Camry and keeping the cd3 platform without all the bells and whistles and keeping costs lower.  But on paper it seemed like a good move to differentiate it from the competition.  Buyers just didn’t cooperate. 

My dad had one with a manual, it was the last year it was offered (2015). Every dealer he ever took it to thought he had it done aftermarket. I hated the feel of the clutch on that thing lol. 

[silvrsvt]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

From a business standpoint they would have been more successful following Camry and keeping the cd3 platform without all the bells and whistles and keeping costs lower.  But on paper it seemed like a good move to differentiate it from the competition.  Buyers just didn’t cooperate. 

 

How much did the save world wide by standardizing on a single platform vs having two different one?

 

I was under the impression that the CD3 was older then it was...apparently it just came out in 2002....so maybe you do have a point about that also. 

[akirby]

10 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

How much did the save world wide by standardizing on a single platform vs having two different one?

 

I was under the impression that the CD3 was older then it was...apparently it just came out in 2002....so maybe you do have a point about that also. 

But they could have easily standardized on cd3 instead of cd4. I understand the desire to sell more options and more expensive models but they misread the market.  Instead of buying more expensive sedans buyers went to crossovers.

 

Thats the problem with business cases.  You can have a positive business case for doing something but that doesn’t mean it’s the best thing to do.  E.g. GM constantly rationalizes the GMC platform by saying it makes money and generates sales.  Which is true.  But what they’re not looking at is what do the numbers look like if we ditch GMC and provide Denali trims on sister Chevy products.  If your job is GMC you’re not going to propose that.  Thats where leadership has to step in and do what’s right for the business not just one division.   Mulally did a lot of that 

[fuzzymoomoo]

39 minutes ago, akirby said:

Mulally did a lot of that 

He axed the Mercury division when it was obvious at least a decade earlier it should be done. GM meanwhile still can’t figure out where GMC and Buick fit in their hierarchy. And don’t give me that Buick is big in China line, if they were serious about the Chinese market they would figure it out with another brand. 

[7Mary3]

26 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

He axed the Mercury division when it was obvious at least a decade earlier it should be done. GM meanwhile still can’t figure out where GMC and Buick fit in their hierarchy. And don’t give me that Buick is big in China line, if they were serious about the Chinese market they would figure it out with another brand. 

 

No problem with GMC, it fits just fine and is very profitable.  GMC dealers are handing Hummer exclusively as well.  Buick actually has a long history in China back to the pre-WWII days, the brand has value there.  GM has other brands in China too, like Wuling.  Buick also manages to outsell Lincoln in North America....... 

[Chrisgb]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

He axed the Mercury division when it was obvious at least a decade earlier it should be done. GM meanwhile still can’t figure out where GMC and Buick fit in their hierarchy. And don’t give me that Buick is big in China line, if they were serious about the Chinese market they would figure it out with another brand. 

On topic: IMO Mercury did its best when it was aligned structurally with Lincon rather than Ford, up to the Panther era IOW. Having said that, we had a 2006 Mercury Milan (CD3) and we chose it over the Fusion for its nicer interior and option package content. And of course the cute little analog clock in the dash that was in vogue at the time. Nice car, big enough for us, and at that time a fwd Lincoln MKZ didn't seem right; couldn't swing an LS either.

Off topic but within range: 20-20 hindsight; i think Mulally should have axed the Lincoln Division at the same time as Merc, and gone the EU Vignale route with One Ford. Make it a limited model above or instead of Titanium & Platinum trims, with exclusive options or available only on Vignale the first couple years. Maybe do a Lincoln-ish F/R clip treatment. The faded-in-the-public's eye Lincoln Motor Company can't be adding to the Blue oval's bottom line with a separate sales channel for 75,000-odd sales. I believe that that many Ford Vignales could have been sold with a lot less overhead even at a lower, "Mercury" price point.. Didn't envy "One Ford Alan's" job of trying to convince WCF to cut the Division. I wasn't there of course, but it would've been interesting to be a fly on the wall.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Chrisgb