Bill Ford Also Thinks EVs Have Become Politicized

[akirby]

59 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

I respectfully disagree.  When a person is a company CEO, or is named Ford, nothing they say in public knowing it will be reported is just what it appears.  Farley and Ford know exactly what they are trying to control or influence with every word.  I have my personal take on comments but will keep to myself.

So first he says EV sales are up 50% this year.  Then he says EVs are politicized with one side for them and one side against them which has a zero net effect on sales.  Then he says sales are limited by high prices. 
 

I fail to see anything in those comments other than 100% factual observations of the current environment.  I don’t see any spin or making excuses but maybe that’s just me.

[fordmantpw]

On 10/18/2023 at 11:26 AM, akirby said:

There is definitely a huge red vs blue issue just as he described - I see it every day.  One group thinks BEVs will save the planet and the other thinks they’re nothing but a political mandate.  No different than most other issues.

 

We live in a rural area (small town of 1400), and I am very conservative.  I don't think BEVs are going to save the planet, nor do I feel they should be forced on anyone.  However, the $10k off sticker was enough to finally let my (our) wants outweigh our needs and our 2023 Mach-E GT will be ready for us Monday night!  We probably never should have driven the GT lol!

 

I always wanted a Mustang, but I never thought it would be 4 door, electric, or my wife's!  I must be one of the few conservatives with solar panels and an electric vehicle!

[akirby]

55 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

We live in a rural area (small town of 1400), and I am very conservative.  I don't think BEVs are going to save the planet, nor do I feel they should be forced on anyone.  However, the $10k off sticker was enough to finally let my (our) wants outweigh our needs and our 2023 Mach-E GT will be ready for us Monday night!  We probably never should have driven the GT lol!

 

I always wanted a Mustang, but I never thought it would be 4 door, electric, or my wife's!  I must be one of the few conservatives with solar panels and an electric vehicle!

Well you’re a hardworking intelligent reasonable person so that leaves you out of both politically extreme categories like most of us.

 

Half of what I say pisses off the staunch liberals and half pisses off the staunch conservatives.  That’s how you know you’re right. ?

[fordmantpw]

16 minutes ago, akirby said:

Well you’re a hardworking intelligent reasonable person so that leaves you out of both politically extreme categories like most of us.

 

Half of what I say pisses off the staunch liberals and half pisses off the staunch conservatives.  That’s how you know you’re right. ?

 

Just think what this country would be like if it were run by hardworking intelligent reasonable people like us.  But, then again, those people are too smart to run for office...

[akirby]

3 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Just think what this country would be like if it were run by hardworking intelligent reasonable people like us.  But, then again, those people are too smart to run for office...

True.  I keep waiting for such a candidate on either side but I can’t find one.  This two party system has all but eliminated the possibility of a moderate candidate.

 

Im not voting for Biden or Trump or anyone similar.  If neither party comes up with a better option I’m voting independent or Libertarian.

[rmc523]

39 minutes ago, akirby said:

True.  I keep waiting for such a candidate on either side but I can’t find one.  This two party system has all but eliminated the possibility of a moderate candidate.

 

Im not voting for Biden or Trump or anyone similar.  If neither party comes up with a better option I’m voting independent or Libertarian.

 

It's obnoxious that both sides have to go further in their corners and can't meet in the middle, and then people end up voting for candidate X, just so candidate Y doesn't get in, rather than voting FOR the candidate.

[akirby]

49 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

It's obnoxious that both sides have to go further in their corners and can't meet in the middle, and then people end up voting for candidate X, just so candidate Y doesn't get in, rather than voting FOR the candidate.

I was incredibly pissed off that I was forced to vote for one because the other option was worse.  Lesser of two evils is incredibly appropriate.  
 

I say have an open election (no primary) and let everyone compete with everyone else and take the top 3 or 4 and have a runoff.

[balthisar]

I'll vote third party, despite people telling me I'm wasting my vote. Statistically, no one individual vote ever matters on the national scale, other than potentially Florida 2000. Funny, when I do tell people I'm voting for a third party, I'm always supporting the enemy of whomever it is I'm talking to!

 

[ice-capades]

7 minutes ago, balthisar said:

I'll vote third party, despite people telling me I'm wasting my vote. Statistically, no one individual vote ever matters on the national scale, other than potentially Florida 2000. Funny, when I do tell people I'm voting for a third party, I'm always supporting the enemy of whomever it is I'm talking to!

 

Whether you vote for a 3rd party candidate or not, what's important is that you vote for the candidate that you choose. Every vote is important, as evidenced by the number of elections that were decided by a single vote. 

[DeluxeStang]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:24 AM, akirby said:

Half of what I say pisses off the staunch liberals and half pisses off Travis.  That’s how you know you’re right. 

This describes a significant chunk of my extended family. Half of them don't want to hear any Criticism about Biden. Half don't want to hear any criticism about Trump. I actually tense up whenever the topic of politics comes up around them. 

[Joe771476]

Replacing a battery costs $12,000. Insurance companies won't insure you if you park the vehicle in your garage. They're catching on fire every day. You can't reduce the carbon footprint of a carbon based planet! Without the greenhouse effect, the average surface temperature of the Earth would be 0 degrees F! With it, it's 59 degrees F. I prefer that! These so-called expert scientists said Pluto was a planet, now it's not. They say milk and eggs are good one year, next year not, third year good again!  When there's an impending hurricane, they draw 10 possible paths because they really don't know where it's going!  But let's believe them for a moment. They say we've had climate change events (cooling and warming) for millions of years, right? Well there were no cars and industrial plants back then! And they say storms are getting worse. The reason they SEEM worse is because there are more people to be injured and killed and more building to be destroyed. The INTENSITY of the storms is not getting worse! 

[Flying68]

1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

Replacing a battery costs $12,000. Insurance companies won't insure you if you park the vehicle in your garage. They're catching on fire every day. You can't reduce the carbon footprint of a carbon based planet! Without the greenhouse effect, the average surface temperature of the Earth would be 0 degrees F! With it, it's 59 degrees F. I prefer that! These so-called expert scientists said Pluto was a planet, now it's not. They say milk and eggs are good one year, next year not, third year good again!  When there's an impending hurricane, they draw 10 possible paths because they really don't know where it's going!  But let's believe them for a moment. They say we've had climate change events (cooling and warming) for millions of years, right? Well there were no cars and industrial plants back then! And they say storms are getting worse. The reason they SEEM worse is because there are more people to be injured and killed and more building to be destroyed. The INTENSITY of the storms is not getting worse! 

Where did you get this information?  I think you are engaging in hyperbole that isn't helpful to the discussion.  Unless there is a specific recall for a specific model there is no prohibition of parking an EV in your garage with regard to insurance.  Even ICE vehicles have recalls that instruct you to not park in the garage due to fire risk, like our MkC currently does due to a battery terminal connection recall, but that doesn't mean our insurance won't cover us.  Pretty sure the statistics show ICE vehicles are as or more likely to catch on fire in a garage than BEV's are.

[silvrsvt]

7 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Replacing a battery costs $12,000. Insurance companies won't insure you if you park the vehicle in your garage. 

 

Just because you repeat bad information doesn't make it true

 

A recent Wall Street Journal article reported on the risk involved with an electric car and the cost of insurance for both the car and the home. The Journal says that data from the Insurance Information Institute and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety suggests that electric vehicles are not any more dangerous to drive or park in your driveway than a vehicle with internal combustion. According to data from the National Transportation Safety Board, complied by AutoinsuranceEZ, fully electric vehicles pose less risk of fire than hybrids and gas cars. There were 25 electric car fires per 100,000 sales, compared with 3,475 hybrid fires and 1,530 internal combustion engine fires per 100,000 sales.

[DeluxeStang]

9 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Replacing a battery costs $12,000. Insurance companies won't insure you if you park the vehicle in your garage. They're catching on fire every day. You can't reduce the carbon footprint of a carbon based planet! Without the greenhouse effect, the average surface temperature of the Earth would be 0 degrees F! With it, it's 59 degrees F. I prefer that! These so-called expert scientists said Pluto was a planet, now it's not. They say milk and eggs are good one year, next year not, third year good again!  When there's an impending hurricane, they draw 10 possible paths because they really don't know where it's going!  But let's believe them for a moment. They say we've had climate change events (cooling and warming) for millions of years, right? Well there were no cars and industrial plants back then! And they say storms are getting worse. The reason they SEEM worse is because there are more people to be injured and killed and more building to be destroyed. The INTENSITY of the storms is not getting worse! 

So we just sit here and do nothing? This is why I've never understood the political argument on either end of the isle. Hardcore conservatives say how there is no such thing as climate change, and humanity's actions are having no noticable impact on the environment. This is blatantly false. Then you have hardcore leftists who say climate change is this big scary boogieman that's gonna be the end of all of us in like 10 years. That's blatantly false. 

 

Maybe we should focus on being more environmentally sustainable, in a realistic fashion, meaning a gradual transition to environmentally friendly vehicles. Hybrids will be key in this transition, and no, the battery pack on a Ford hybrid doesn't cost anywhere near $12,000. More like $3,000-5,000, assuming you'll have to replace it at all. Which is unlikely, considering I haven't heard of a single Ford hybrid needing to have it's battery or electric motors replaced. Ford hybrids are literally some of the most reliable vehicles you can buy. 

 

Let's stop ignoring our issues, and stop pretending like everyone is gonna transition to EVs 5 years from now. Let's just be rational, and solve the problem little by little, in ways that are economically feasible. I don't understand why everything has to be all or nothing. 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by DeluxeStang

[silvrsvt]

43 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Maybe we should focus on being more environmentally sustainable, in a realistic fashion, meaning a gradual transition to environmentally friendly vehicles. Hybrids will be key in this transition, and no, the battery pack on a Ford hybrid doesn't cost anywhere near $12,000. More like $3,000-5,000, assuming you'll have to replace it at all. Which is unlikely, considering I haven't heard of a single Ford hybrid needing to have it's battery or electric motors replaced. Ford hybrids are literally some of the most reliable vehicles you can buy. 

 

See that is the problem...people have no clue or are just plain ignorant. 

 

Outside of the Ranger, Bronco, Bronco Sport and Transit, which don't offer an Hybrid (yet)...Ford has pretty much that part covered. EVs will be added as time goes on, eventually replacing ICE products at some point. The only question mark is the Escape and how that is going to be handled due its timing, but the products don't have hybrids are slated to stay into production for at least another 10 years or so and might get an EV version by the end of the decade. I'm willing to bet that in another five years that most of the concerns with charging not being built out will be in a much better place.

 

Hopefully we'll see something later tonight if the UAW contract BS is finally taken care of. 

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

See that is the problem...people have no clue or are just plain ignorant. 

 

Outside of the Ranger, Bronco, Bronco Sport and Transit, which don't offer an Hybrid (yet)...Ford has pretty much that part covered. EVs will be added as time goes on, eventually replacing ICE products at some point. The only question mark is the Escape and how that is going to be handled due its timing, but the products don't have hybrids are slated to stay into production for at least another 10 years or so and might get an EV version by the end of the decade. I'm willing to bet that in another five years that most of the concerns with charging not being built out will be in a much better place.

 

Hopefully we'll see something later tonight if the UAW contract BS is finally taken care of. 

I agree, everyone is scared about EVs being this very sudden change that's forced on everyone overnight, it's not, it's going to be a gradual transition that takes several more decades. As for the escape, it's tricky for sure. 

 

It's crucial to have some desirable EVs on the lower end of your product portfolio. As great as the mach-e GT and lighting are, if EVs remain as this price point, they're never gonna become the go to for your average new car buyer. So a more affordable EV offering from Ford is essential. 

 

If it was up to me, I'd make the escape EV a baby mach-e, a sportier, more enticing compact crossover than the current escape, but something that didn't go directly head to head with the bronco sport. The escape can succeed, it just needs to be more, more of everything. As it stands, it's this generic commodity product that sells on price, and little else. Ford needs to find a way to make it actually desirable. 

[silvrsvt]

Of course that doesn't stop the press trotting out things like this:

Elon Musk just lost $28 billion as Tesla took a beating. Now Toyota says ‘people are waking up to reality’ that EV adoption will be an uphill battle

[rmc523]

18 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

So we just sit here and do nothing? This is why I've never understood the political argument on either end of the isle. Hardcore conservatives say how there is no such thing as climate change, and humanity's actions are having no noticable impact on the environment. This is blatantly false. Then you have hardcore leftists who say climate change is this big scary boogieman that's gonna be the end of all of us in like 10 years. That's blatantly false. 

 

Maybe we should focus on being more environmentally sustainable, in a realistic fashion, meaning a gradual transition to environmentally friendly vehicles. Hybrids will be key in this transition, and no, the battery pack on a Ford hybrid doesn't cost anywhere near $12,000. More like $3,000-5,000, assuming you'll have to replace it at all. Which is unlikely, considering I haven't heard of a single Ford hybrid needing to have it's battery or electric motors replaced. Ford hybrids are literally some of the most reliable vehicles you can buy. 

 

Let's stop ignoring our issues, and stop pretending like everyone is gonna transition to EVs 5 years from now. Let's just be rational, and solve the problem little by little, in ways that are economically feasible. I don't understand why everything has to be all or nothing. 

 

 

 

My thought has always been that I think earth's climate is cyclical overall, but that we still do have an impact on things - just not as extreme as being made out to be to where we're ALL dying next year if we don't switch to EVs and alternate power tomorrow.

 

I think it's a fantastic goal to get to where we're more neutral regarding our impact on the environment, and using renewable sources is an awesome tool to use to achieve that.  We saw during covid a lot of areas of pollution cleaned up when things were shut down that's great to see!

 

That said......those efforts should not be done in a draconian "now at all costs!!!" manner that severely handicap ourselves and position on the world stage - it needs to be a methodical "D-all of the above" strategy that leverages strengths of a broad variety of options until efficient and reliable long term solutions can be developed.  Spending trillions, weakening ourselves, and cutting our emissions 1% doesn't do much good if other players in the world increase theirs 20%.  I also hate how green solutions like BEVs and windmills and such are touted as end-all-be-all solutions while ignoring their own impacts such as massive strip mines for materials, or having to bury turbine blades because they can't be recycled, just because it doesn't fit the narrative that they're perfect solutions.

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

it doesn't fit the narrative that they're perfect solutions.

 

The problem is this-that people latch on to things that aren't perfect and attack them when good enough or an improvement is better then doing nothing. Because doing nothing is easiest course of action. 

That is the issue-doing nothing isn't going to help anything and I see why some people are ardent one way or the other...because sometimes you need to over aim for your goal because if you don't, it won't even happen. 

[rmc523]

29 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The problem is this-that people latch on to things that aren't perfect and attack them when good enough or an improvement is better then doing nothing. Because doing nothing is easiest course of action. 

That is the issue-doing nothing isn't going to help anything and I see why some people are ardent one way or the other...because sometimes you need to over aim for your goal because if you don't, it won't even happen. 

 

Right, but if it's not presented as a perfect solution - nothing is - people might not be as hesitant to adopt it.

[LSchicago]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:46 AM, DeluxeStang said:

This isn't really a red vs blue issue. More of an urban vs rural issue. Utah, which is one of the most conservative states, but also one of the fast growing urban environments, is experiencing a boom in EV adoption lately. Many rural areas just don't have the infrastructure to support mass EV adoption at this moment in time. It just so happens that many of those areas tend to lean conservative. But the criticisms are valid, and not that political in nature. Making it about politics is avoiding the real problem. 

Urban people see EV's as a choice, and a way to ease the higher urban gas prices. Rural people see it not as a choice, but something that is forced on them. Politics are very much related to Urban/Rural areas too. Majority of Urban dwellers vote Blue, while the majority of Rural dwellers vote Red. And why the political hate for EV's was born. For me, I am pretty neutral. I won't try an EV for some years, if I do. They may become more practical for road trips. Until then, my little Maverick Hybrid is my new Road trip vehicle. 

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, LSchicago said:

Majority of Urban dwellers vote Blue, while the majority of Rural dwellers vote Red. And why the political hate for EV's was born.

 

U.S. DOT developed a toolkit to help rural communities throughout the U.S. develop the infrastructure associated with successful BEV deployment and adoption. As that infrastructure is built, and as more and more rural Americans enjoy the benefits that BEV provide, the "political football" or "political hate" associated with BEV should abate. Charging Forward: A Toolkit for Planning and Funding Rural Electric Mobility Infrastructure | US Department of Transportation

 

All Americans, regardless of where they live, should have the opportunity to benefit from the lower operating costs, reduced maintenance needs, and improved performance that EVs provide. 

In rural parts of the country—home to 20 percent of Americans and almost 70 percent of America’s lane miles—EVs can be an especially attractive alternative to conventional vehicles. Rural residents drive more than their urban counterparts, spend more on vehicle fuel and maintenance, and often have fewer alternatives to driving to meet their transportation needs. In the long run, adoption of EVs—integrated with holistic regional land use and transportation planning—can help residents of rural areas reduce those costs, minimize the environmental impact of transportation, and improve accessibility and quality of life in their communities.

[LSchicago]

10 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

U.S. DOT developed a toolkit to help rural communities throughout the U.S. develop the infrastructure associated with successful BEV deployment and adoption. As that infrastructure is built, and as more and more rural Americans enjoy the benefits that BEV provide, the "political football" or "political hate" associated with BEV should abate. Charging Forward: A Toolkit for Planning and Funding Rural Electric Mobility Infrastructure | US Department of Transportation

 

 

 

 

Good luck erasing that EV hate and bias. Even putting chargers at every restaurant, gas station, store, school, and in every garage of owners free of charge wouldn't be enough. Some people will just not accept them no matter how convenient they become.  

[Rick73]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The problem is this-that people latch on to things that aren't perfect and attack them when good enough or an improvement is better then doing nothing. Because doing nothing is easiest course of action. 

That is the issue-doing nothing isn't going to help anything and I see why some people are ardent one way or the other...because sometimes you need to over aim for your goal because if you don't, it won't even happen. 

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing.

[rperez817]

12 minutes ago, LSchicago said:

Some people will just not accept them no matter how convenient they become.  

 

Good point LSchicago. Fortunately, as time goes on, that group will dwindle to a tiny minority. Similar "hate and bias" occurred earlier in the history of rural America with the mechanization of agriculture and the use of heterosis for crops like corn. Nowadays both are the norm.