In all fairness, the Western Star deal included their plant in Kelowna B.C. and Orion Bus with their plants in Ontario and New York.  That accounts at least in part for the much higher price.     I think it's inaccurate to say that Freightliner (or rather DTNA) approached and somehow coerced Ford into selling their heavy truck operation for pennies.  Ford very clearly wanted out of the heavy truck business for two primary reasons, first low profits, and second, they wanted to convert KTP to exclusive production of the upcoming Super Duty line of light trucks.  I was told at the time this was all happening Ford was very close to including all medium duty trucks in the deal (they were built at KTP as well), but made a last-minute decision to keep the F series medium duty in production in Escobedo Mexico.  The Freightliner deal did include the Cargo series medium duty trucks.     The Acterra line used the former Ford cab on a Freightliner chassis, and later versions of the Cargo were built on Freightliner FL 60/70 chassis.  The Acterra was a close approximation to the HN80 medium duty F series replacement Ford was planning for sometime around 1999.      Ford didn't break out class 8 sales from class 6 and 7 sales back in those days, but by 1996 Ford's class 8 share by itself was very small and shrinking.  Ford's strength was in medium duty and class 7 vocational.  Freightliner was primarily after those vocational class 7 sales as they were weak in that specific area.  Freightliner also wanted the dealer network and the Ford parts business was icing on the cake.  The one part of the deal Freightliner was perhaps less excited about was Ford's over-the-road class 8 business, as that was a market Freightliner was particularly strong it.  In fact, Ford had shown a prototype HN80 long-nose OTR conventional model was to have replaced the Louisville LTL as Ford's flagship heavy truck, but Freightliner dropped the program and focused Sterling on vocational and fleet truck sales.   To this day I have wondered what happened to the 2 long nose HN80 prototypes that were supposedly built.  There were pictures of one of them taken at a commercial truck show in late 1996.   

In that van size range Ford already has the Transit Custom which shares most of hybrid powertrain with Maverick.  As previously discussed why not just use that award-winning and bestselling design? 🤔    Interesting timing of this thread in that Ford is currently releasing at Caravan Salon in Germany the latest Transit Custom Nugget camper van made by Westfalia.  It’s essentially the long wheelbase Transit Custom mid-size van with a hard-sided fiberglass raised roof.  It’s being promoted as a winter-capable camper compared to their other models using a pop-up roof with canvas sides.  Downside is that it’s too tall to be garageable and also consumes more fuel than pop-up variants.  Regardless, potential is very promising.   i know RVs are small volume compared to commercial applications, but this new Nugget model shows how versatile the Transit Custom is.  If Ford is indeed developing a Maverick van instead they must be looking to make it much cheaper.    

Yeah, I interpret it in the same way. Maybe they need to understand their customers better. The Navigator styling is way better but in terms of power and tech, there is no difference sadly. Also considering the Escalade starts at 93k and has way more tech, they need something less expensive to compete (although IMO the should have given the Navi more tech/features)

“based on consumer interest and retailer feedback.”   I interpret this as it’s too damn expensive and we need something cheaper to sell.     There is something to be said about the styling differences between a Navigator and an Expedition, so I don’t necessarily agree that it means just buy a loaded Expedition. I personally prefer the Navigator styling over the Expedition, and would consider giving something up for better styling.    With the Escalade starting out at $93,695, you need something to compete there.  I have seen plenty of base Escalades on the road so someone is buying them.     

Agreed, it’s not as if the hybrid powertrain development hasn’t been done.  It doesn’t make a lot of sense.    The BS isn’t a Bronco so IMO they need to be more aggressive with the changes on it.  Clearly this is the opposite of my previous statement earlier in this thread.  They could even use the BS to test styling changes that could be potentially applied to the Bronco, while still adhering to its heritage. 

2025 fs suv comparo. Expected rankings and top 3/4 finishes were decided by a point, but C&D vehicle ratings never really match up to what they say when writing about the vehicle.     https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a65888650/2025-chevrolet-ford-gmc-jeep-nissan-toyota-full-size-suv-comparison-test/

Neither, I drive a Super Duty, so I'm defending myself!  😄

Let's not all cast judgements until the order guide drops lol.  However, if they drop the massage seats in the front, its better to just get an expy at that point.

Bench 2nd row is a no cost option on the 2025 Reserve, and I cast me a jaundiced eye that "Premium" leather and the Revel Ultima 3D sound system are worth 8 grand more. But in the market they compete in, anybody who is somebody wouldn't show up in anything less than a Black Label anyway. If you are suing/being sued, are you hiring the $700/hr attorney or the $1,100/hr one?

I've mentioned most of this years ago in here, but I used to read my customer's Automotive News magazine and in the 80's into 90's Ford heavy truck was right up there with International and Freightliner. I know that Ford was often in at least second place in sales at some points in time. So they redesigned it in 1996/1997 and according to a story, Freightliner knew Ford could be a problem, so they went to Ford and bought -- er STOLE -- it for $300 million. I'm quite sure the deal said Freightliner had to keep it for 10 years. Did you notice that the S for Sterling was kept in an oval?! In the beginning, Ford DNA was still in the early Sterlings, but eventually I believe the cab was simply mounted on a Freightliner chassis. Again like I mentioned many years ago, when the CTDOT and the MDC water agency in CT (that's just two examples) found out they couldn't get class 8 Fords anymore, it opened up their eyes to other brands in other classes and categories. The MDC garage used to be full of Fords -- and only Fords --  for years.  They even had Ford payloaders and backhoes! Now over the years it's a collection of various Ford, GM, Dodge class 1 thru 5 trucks and cars. Heavies became IHC or Freightliners. So I believe Ford LOST out on the deal!  Big time! Same is true of the CTDOT. After a hiatus of 20 years, the CTDOT just recently bought a bunch of F750 dumps/plow/salters, and I THINK they're Powerstrokes. I'm still working on that info Bob R!! And $670 million for low volume Western Star was ridiculous when they only paid $300 million for much higher volume Fords.