Deanh Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Ford is on a quality free-fall and my expectation level is aberrant? The problems in MFT/MLT are colossal, I've never seen anything like it in the tech business, nobody in this industry would deliver a product in that condition. I'm not interested in defending Ford's mistakes and I want reassurance that the bozos who are letting these things happen are gone....but there is no reason to believe that since it's now so systemic across many systems. I have never had less faith in Ford than I do right now. I've seen them develop a rock solid quality approach and then COMPLETLEY blow it up in 12 months. What's worse is that these are known design faults, they knew their were problems before the shipped them. They put them in customer hands with the knowledge that they were faulty. That drives me crazy more than anything, shipping bad products because their team couldn't get it right for the deadline. It's just the culture of this new Ford, I don't like it and I want it to change. jesus Borg, your grades in Drama Class must have been terrific..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 jesus Borg, your grades in Drama Class must have been terrific..... POTW. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTaurus Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Ford fight back responding to Consumer Report rating from days ago. Ford probably paid a spot on the local (NY) news radio, explaining the issue with new powershift transmission broadcasting today every half an hour. Describing it as an unfamiliarity of the consumer with the new transmission........ If you want to hear it, go on the computer to listen to CBS News 880. Edited October 27, 2011 by LoveTaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 While I agree the issues as not as bad as the media is making it out to be, ya gotta admit...if this was happening to a competitor rather then Ford, most of you would be making Borgs comments look like raving reviews. :reading: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Be wary of quoting Jobs when scolding Ford for "poor quality." Just last year Apple put out iPhone 4 with a massively flawed antenna, and their answer to the complaints was "you're holding it wrong." Not to mention that their purely cosmetic decisions to use edge-to-edge glass front and back has made shattering when dropped a constant problem. They were also more prone to water damage and cracking. Bezels exist for a reason... While I agree the issues as not as bad as the media is making it out to be, ya gotta admit...if this was happening to a competitor rather then Ford, most of you would be making Borgs comments look like raving reviews. :reading: You obviously spend enough time on these boards to recognize forum user's posting styles so who are you talking about specifically? Yourself, V8-X, and Borg seem to enjoy taking the No true Scotsman stance, trying to avoid appearing to be biased towards Ford's because you're on a Ford forum... It makes you look like heroes... Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 You obviously spend enough time on these boards to recognize forum user's posting styles so who are you talking about specifically? Yourself, V8-X, and Borg seem to enjoy taking the No true Scotsman stance, trying to avoid appearing to be biased towards Ford's because you're on a Ford forum... It makes you look like heroes... Just sayin' Well, duh...I AM a hero. You should pick up my trading cards. :shades: What I am saying is scroll down and read the competitors forum and tell me more drama wasn't made of lesser issues....myself included. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Ford is on a quality free-fall and my expectation level is aberrant? The problems in MFT/MLT are colossal, I've never seen anything like it in the tech business, nobody in this industry would deliver a product in that condition. I'm not interested in defending Ford's mistakes and I want reassurance that the bozos who are letting these things happen are gone....but there is no reason to believe that since it's now so systemic across many systems. I have never had less faith in Ford than I do right now. I've seen them develop a rock solid quality approach and then COMPLETLEY blow it up in 12 months. What's worse is that these are known design faults, they knew their were problems before the shipped them. They put them in customer hands with the knowledge that they were faulty. That drives me crazy more than anything, shipping bad products because their team couldn't get it right for the deadline. It's just the culture of this new Ford, I don't like it and I want it to change. For God's sake. Most teenage girls are less dramatic than you. Solve your problems, Borg---trade the MKX in, buy something else and complain about THAT instead. I'm convinced at this point that the vehicle you seek is not currently built by ANYONE, nor can it ever be. Cue the "Yeah, but, uh, aside from MLT, this is the best vehicle I've owned and even though MLT is quite possibly the worst thing ever released, I'd still wouldn't own a vehicle without it" bizarro resonse in 1....2....3. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Well if that was the case, why is the 2011 Escape outselling the 2001 Escape in a far worse Automotive sales environment? Difference between 2011 & 2001, the size of the SUV's, economy and gas prices. Look back at 2001 gas prices and how well mid-large SUV's sold in comparison to small CUV's/SUV's. Also, the economy now, including gas prices, have made people move from the mid-large SUV's (they really didn't need) to something much more fuel efficient and cheaper. You simply can't look at just sales figures for your conclusion. While I agree the issues as not as bad as the media is making it out to be, ya gotta admit...if this was happening to a competitor rather then Ford, most of you would be making Borgs comments look like raving reviews. :reading: Exactly. And this furthers the point I'll make to GT Keith below. Many love to bash the competitors for problems on much smaller issues, but turn a blind eye or make excuses when it comes to Ford products. It's a great double standard dynamic we have here at BON. Yourself, V8-X, and Borg seem to enjoy taking the No true Scotsman stance, trying to avoid appearing to be biased towards Ford's because you're on a Ford forum... I'm pro-Ford, hell I've owned six Ford products, purchasing four brand new and only regret owning one. But I have no issue calling out a product if it's not to my liking, whether your or others like it or not. That's the great part of having our own opinions. Or bashing a Ford product, as I'd bash any other make/model, for product defects or issues. Why should Ford get a hall pass from such criticism And if you follow any of my posts, I praise the Stang (minus the manual gearbox) and the F-Series lineup, and really like the Flex, Fusion and Taurus. Doesn't mean I'm Ford biased. And because I dislike the Explorer and the direction of the Escape, doesn't mean I'm anti-Ford. I think the Fiesta and Focus are decent products, nothing spectacular, IMHO. But if a product has issues, I'm not one to hold my tongue and spew the company line, where does that get us? If people did nothing but praise Ford, then the products would never improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 "Reliability" should refer to whether the car breaks down and leaves owner stranded. Not 'annoyances' or 'I can't figure out how to run MFT on my own'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notquitesane Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Half the trouble I have from MFT is caused by my iPod. :poke: It works nearly flawlessly when it's not connected. This reminds me of my 2008 Fusion with the ancient Sync system (mine's now running ver 1.3!!!!) When I had an iPhone 3G, it worked flawlessly with Ford's new Sync system. Evil Apple released iOS 3 and it made the iPhone unusable with the Sync system. Everyone viewed this as a Ford issue when in reality it was an Apple issue as it worked perfectly before the update. With subsequent updates, partial functionality was returned but it was never the same as it was before iOS 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 "Reliability" should refer to whether the car breaks down and leaves owner stranded. Not 'annoyances' or 'I can't figure out how to run MFT on my own'. No, reliability should be the number of times the vehicle needs something fixed. 'I can't figure out how to run MFT on my own', is not a fix, but a car doesn't have to leave you stranded to need fixed. The A/C going out won't leave you stranded, but it sure is a concern to reliability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Difference between 2011 & 2001, the size of the SUV's, economy and gas prices. Look back at 2001 gas prices and how well mid-large SUV's sold in comparison to small CUV's/SUV's. Also, the economy now, including gas prices, have made people move from the mid-large SUV's (they really didn't need) to something much more fuel efficient and cheaper. You simply can't look at just sales figures for your conclusion. Exactly. And this furthers the point I'll make to GT Keith below. Many love to bash the competitors for problems on much smaller issues, but turn a blind eye or make excuses when it comes to Ford products. It's a great double standard dynamic we have here at BON. I'm pro-Ford, hell I've owned six Ford products, purchasing four brand new and only regret owning one. But I have no issue calling out a product if it's not to my liking, whether your or others like it or not. That's the great part of having our own opinions. Or bashing a Ford product, as I'd bash any other make/model, for product defects or issues. Why should Ford get a hall pass from such criticism And if you follow any of my posts, I praise the Stang (minus the manual gearbox) and the F-Series lineup, and really like the Flex, Fusion and Taurus. Doesn't mean I'm Ford biased. And because I dislike the Explorer and the direction of the Escape, doesn't mean I'm anti-Ford. I think the Fiesta and Focus are decent products, nothing spectacular, IMHO. But if a product has issues, I'm not one to hold my tongue and spew the company line, where does that get us? If people did nothing but praise Ford, then the products would never improve. "If a product has issues" There's a fine line between acknowledging a few isolated incidents that tend to be the industry norm and spreading vitriolic alarmism about a product you don't own. I don't think you fall into this category but there's at least one poster here that does. If you have the credulity to "call out the issues" then surely you can afford the same credit to those that "down play it." It doesn't make them anymore biased towards Ford. There's plenty of posts in my history bashing Lincoln(Which is one of the most reliable brands of any) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 As far as the transmission goes, I believe the cause of the problem is the fact that the government mandated that cars must increase fuel economy by a huge margin over a small period of time. This results in products being rushed to the market to meet it. Consumer demand will eventually take the market there, but the auto companies would have had a longer time to meet it. With out the government mandate, the Focus would have probably come to the market with a regular 6 speed and a little less fuel economy. There was no magic trick to up the level of technology. As far as MFT goes. Everything i've used with a touchscreen has been buggy, form GPS to my Ipod. What made Ford think this would be different? Ford rushed this tech and made it handle too many systems at once. This won't make me not consider a Ford or a MFT (after all i still like the IPOD). People still buy BMW with the I drive and MB with its clone of the I drive. Every car company has its problems and works through it. It is not the end of the universe. I have a Mustang with that gas tank problem (shutting off gas pumps fifty times during fill up in some gas stations.) and I still love the car. The test will be how Ford learns from its mistakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Ford is on a quality free-fall and my expectation level is aberrant? The problems in MFT/MLT are colossal, I've never seen anything like it in the tech business, nobody in this industry would deliver a product in that condition. I'm not interested in defending Ford's mistakes and I want reassurance that the bozos who are letting these things happen are gone....but there is no reason to believe that since it's now so systemic across many systems. I have never had less faith in Ford than I do right now. I've seen them develop a rock solid quality approach and then COMPLETLEY blow it up in 12 months. What's worse is that these are known design faults, they knew their were problems before the shipped them. They put them in customer hands with the knowledge that they were faulty. That drives me crazy more than anything, shipping bad products because their team couldn't get it right for the deadline. It's just the culture of this new Ford, I don't like it and I want it to change. I don't know what your problem is, my MFT works fine, in fact it has gotten better with age. I have a Sony Walkman MP3 player. At first, when I made any changes to the player(adding or deleting songs, or just simple playlist changes), it would take days for MFT to adjust. Now, it's literally plug and play after I make changes. Just like with the transmission, a little education would stop the whining...well, maybe not in your case. Just an example: when the screen goes blank, then a minute later, it says "Performing System Maintainence," that's a normal function of Sync. If you don't read the manual, you might think that's a "problem." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) For God's sake. Most teenage girls are less dramatic than you. Solve your problems, Borg---trade the MKX in, buy something else and complain about THAT instead. I'm convinced at this point that the vehicle you seek is not currently built by ANYONE, nor can it ever be. Cue the "Yeah, but, uh, aside from MLT, this is the best vehicle I've owned and even though MLT is quite possibly the worst thing ever released, I'd still wouldn't own a vehicle without it" bizarro resonse in 1....2....3. Your paraphrase is misrepresenting the context of my previous statements. But I admit to being conflicted on MLT, it's badly executed technology but I like the concept and the parts that work well, like the IP, steering wheel controls, and capacitive touch panels (not the awful Sony panels). But the software on that center stack and the touch panel they used is just a mind blowing example of delivering horribly faulty tech. That brings me to another point of contention. I do not want a Microsoft badge in my Lincoln, I don't give a sh*t if they are using their technology, my car is not their billboard. Same goes for that Sony badge in Fords....way to go with making an integrated design that purposefully looks like it was dropped in aftermarket! What?! I like Ford's Lincoln-like panel MUCH better, but Sony is the only premium Audio solution. Edited October 29, 2011 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Your paraphrase is misrepresenting the context of my previous statements. But I admit to being conflicted on MLT, it's badly executed technology but I like the concept and the parts that work well, like the IP, steering wheel controls, and capacitive touch panels (not the awful Sony panels). But the software on that center stack and the touch panel they used is just a mind blowing example of delivering horribly faulty tech. That brings me to another point of contention. I do not want a Microsoft badge in my Lincoln, I don't give a sh*t if they are using their technology, my car is not their billboard. Same goes for that Sony badge in Fords....way to go with making an integrated design that purposefully looks like it was dropped in aftermarket! What?! I like Ford's Lincoln-like panel MUCH better, but Sony is the only premium Audio solution. There's not much adhesive holding that SYNC badge on your console, FWIW... :shades: And, unfortunately, you're in the minority on that point. The luxury segment is about excess and most people dropping $50 or $60 large on a car want to show off all the toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) There's not much adhesive holding that SYNC badge on your console, FWIW... :shades: And, unfortunately, you're in the minority on that point. The luxury segment is about excess and most people dropping $50 or $60 large on a car want to show off all the toys. I want Lincoln to have enough integrity to say no to that impulse, just do what's right and people will love them for it. Every detail is absolutely critical. Edited October 29, 2011 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 That brings me to another point of contention. I do not want a Microsoft badge in my Lincoln, I don't give a sh*t if they are using their technology, my car is not their billboard. Same goes for that Sony badge in Fords....way to go with making an integrated design that purposefully looks like it was dropped in aftermarket! What?! I like Ford's Lincoln-like panel MUCH better, but Sony is the only premium Audio solution. I bet you'd piss your pants from excitement if it had a logo of a half-eaten Apple instead... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 That brings me to another point of contention. I do not want a Microsoft badge in my Lincoln, I don't give a sh*t if they are using their technology, my car is not their billboard. Same goes for that Sony badge in Fords....way to go with making an integrated design that purposefully looks like it was dropped in aftermarket! What?! I like Ford's Lincoln-like panel MUCH better, but Sony is the only premium Audio solution. Oh good grief. Get over it already. What ever would you have done back in the day when it wasn't at all uncommon to open the door on just about any GM product and find a door sill the read "Body by Fisher"? How about an Isuzu Impulse that had a badge which read "Handling by Lotus"? Sony, Pioneer, and numerous other aftermarket audio companies have had their products and by extension their advertising in various cars of all makes for going on 20 plus years now. Heck Jeep has a Wrangler that is nothing but a rolling advertisement for the Call of Duty video game. Chevy makes a Camaro with a Transformers logo on it. This is nothing new in the automotive industry and it's not going to stop. I suggest you just get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I already removed the Microsoft Sync badge I had on my console...its glued, pretty easy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) I think Borg as gotta good point, l don't want to start paying expensive $23,500 prices for cars to start looking like a girlie FWD billboard for a naff gays Gucci designer handbags that push up the prices on mass, or my cars got the blue screen off death fitted logo what a sad day for the automotive industry indeed. I just like one name F O R D. Mind you l still prefer the Motorola name, the 8 track in my Escort is still working OK after nearly 40 years why change it if its not broke to a Japanese Sony that would have packed up ages ago, and send the money profits back to Japan for them to invest in Japanese R & D used to slaughter more American companies & American workers jobs? Edited October 29, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I already removed the Microsoft Sync badge I had on my console...its glued, pretty easy.. You didn't lease your MKX And I wouldn't want an Apple logo on anything but an Apple product for many reasons I could say to further inflame the conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) No, reliability should be the number of times the vehicle needs something fixed. 'I can't figure out how to run MFT on my own', is not a fix, but a car doesn't have to leave you stranded to need fixed. The A/C going out won't leave you stranded, but it sure is a concern to reliability. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9JaCqipJCc Do you think this is just another "Whinging Aussie" ? This Aussie guy was very angry with a Ford auto transmission, Ford can't afford to ignore them as they will start losing customers l think Consumer Reports is a very good early warning system. You can't ignore customers like Toyota do, blame the customer, and hide problems hoping they will go away by sweeping them under the floor mats. I personally can't see why Ford are having problems with cars like the Fiesta in Consumer Reports, we had the new Fiesta ages before you got it Stateside surely any teething problems would have been sorted out ages ago. Edited October 29, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I personally can't see why Ford are having problems with cars like the Fiesta in Consumer Reports, we had the new Fiesta ages before you got it Stateside surely any teething problems would have been sorted out ages ago. Because Europeans saw the Ford/Getrag transmission as a follow-on to VW's lead in bringing these twin-clutch transmissions to market, where it had been presented as primarily a paddle-shift automated manual, that could be left in "D", but was aimed at people who shift. Come to the US, with the brain-dead, who put it in "D", and when it doesn't perform exactly like a regular torque-converter slush-box, get upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) Do you think this is just another "Whinging Aussie" ? Yes he is and local knowledge helps here: Who buys an 8 year old car that been pedaled around saline Western Australia without an external trans cooler? Problem with a used car is that we don't know how the previous owner has treated the cooling system.................. Knowing that, who would buy such a car without an extended warranty? Answer: very few people. This Aussie guy was very angry with a Ford auto transmission, Ford can't afford to ignore them as they will start losing customers l think Consumer Reports is a very good early warning system. You can't ignore customers like Toyota do, blame the customer, and hide problems hoping they will go away by sweeping them under the floor mats. FoA moved onto FG in 2008 and the cooler set up is completely differentso the point is moot. FJM, the car is 8 years old and in my books, any factory faults are null and void given that time frame.... Edited October 29, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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