Lincoln to be Renamed?

[FordBuyer]

I would like to see Lincoln launch its new MKEscape with exclusive to Lincoln 2.7 liter Ecoboost as standard, and only two optional models would be Hybrid and Hybird Plug-ins, each getting 45 mpg or more. Make the MKEscape with features/engines exclusive to Lincoln only. So if you want the 2.7 L V6, or hybrid small CUV, you have to buy Lincoln. Really ratchet up the Lincoln exclusivity with each new model launch. Make Lincoln extra special for luxury, exclusivity features, and hybrid technology/fuel efficiency and power. Don't offer the MKEscape with same engines/drivetrain as Escape. Also make the new 8 speed auto for Lincoln first.

[ZanatWork]

I don't find Lincoln's mission to make much sense, and I think the current form would serve better as "Mercury"...which was the better division before it was mismanaged into nonexistence.

 

Mercury was "tarted up Fords"...which is EXACTLY what's in every Lincoln showroom right now. The difference is that Mercury had an interesting history, whereas Lincoln is largely something you buy while waiting to die. Y'know, like a Buick.

 

I never said that there could be no commonality...and by claiming I did, you're a lying P.o.S. Congrats on failing as a person!

 

However, the differentiation needs to go further than it has, and if they want Lincoln to compete with real luxury marques...they need to find something beyond krill grilles and full-width taillights to do it. Competing with Acuras, Buicks, and Lexus ES models isn't even vaguely original or compelling. Every manufacturer has restyled and up-leathered versions of their milquetoast offerings...Lincoln needs to step higher or just accept that they're only 1 tier above typical Ford territory.

 

Y'know...like Mercury.

 

Like I said - you think Lincoln can't be successful unless they do totally bespoke platforms that don't share a single thing with any Ford ever made. That is a ticket to failure for Ford to try and do that. Even Cadillac is sharing platforms going forward. Lexus shares platforms. Audi shares platforms. Nobody says they aren't luxury or that they aren't successful.

 

The MKZ is the closest yet to a unique Lincoln. But even it was already "in the can" when the new Lincoln direction was announced. And we haven't seen any of the other new vehicles yet so you can't comment on what Lincoln is planning for them.

 

You're also ignoring all of the foundation work they're doing which is totally different than ever before. Dedicated staff of 150 with a totally separate design studio. New dealership experiences. What about all of the Lincoln exclusive features? Does the Fusion have a retractable glass roof or electronically controlled suspension or a push button tranny selector?

 

I don't know anybody (except maybe you) who compares cars on a spec sheet and decides that one is not worth buying because it shares a wheelbase, track and base engines with a Ford.

 

If you don't like the new Lincoln that's fine but it's somewhat ignorant to say they're doing the same thing they've always done based on the MkZ wheelbase and base engine.

[rmc523]

I don't find Lincoln's mission to make much sense, and I think the current form would serve better as "Mercury"...which was the better division before it was mismanaged into nonexistence.

 

Mercury was "tarted up Fords"...which is EXACTLY what's in every Lincoln showroom right now. The difference is that Mercury had an interesting history, whereas Lincoln is largely something you buy while waiting to die. Y'know, like a Buick.

 

I never said that there could be no commonality...and by claiming I did, you're a lying P.o.S. Congrats on failing as a person!

 

However, the differentiation needs to go further than it has, and if they want Lincoln to compete with real luxury marques...they need to find something beyond krill grilles and full-width taillights to do it. Competing with Acuras, Buicks, and Lexus ES models isn't even vaguely original or compelling. Every manufacturer has restyled and up-leathered versions of their milquetoast offerings...Lincoln needs to step higher or just accept that they're only 1 tier above typical Ford territory.

 

Y'know...like Mercury.

 

Well, the differentiation between the MKZ and Fusion is already more than we've seen in quite some time, and as has been mentioned, the MKZ was already largely set in stone before all these new changes (design department, etc) were implemented. You seem to be focused on now/the current lineup and not the future lineup. You have to build a foundation before putting the building up. I'm sure as the brand grows/strengthens that more unique offerings in more niche markets will be pursued. What good does it do to produce one "look at me" car if the rest of the lineup isn't up to par? Start by building up the entire "mainstream" lineup and then go for the more "look at me" products.

[akirby]

I don't find Lincoln's mission to make much sense, and I think the current form would serve better as "Mercury"...which was the better division before it was mismanaged into nonexistence.

 

Mercury was "tarted up Fords"...which is EXACTLY what's in every Lincoln showroom right now.

 

However, the differentiation needs to go further than it has

 

I see - you're just a frustrated Mercury lover who is pissed off at Ford for killing it.

 

And what in the world does this have to do with what's currently in the showroom? This is about a new plan for Lincoln that just got underway last year. We haven't seen any totally new Lincolns yet. Wait until the small CUV comes out next year - that one will be 100% Lincoln designed totally by the new dedicated staff with all the new toys. If that one looks like a tarted up Escape then your criticism will be deserved. It won't.

[jpd80]

Farley said nearly 80 percent of dealers have expressed interest in building new, Lincoln-only dealerships.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitne...7#ixzz29sTCgJo9

 

Probably a bit out there I know but if 80% of Ford dealerships want to build dedicated Lincoln showrooms, you can bet something is up.

 

The sheer volume of product needed to be sold and serviced to justify those investment dollars says that Ford is up to something that's probably

still part of a NDA with dealer principles, could it be that Ford intends to relaunch co-branding like Mercury to increase those sales....

 

Just spit-balling here because I know it sets up competition with Titanium Fords but maybe, enough differentiation adds incremental value instead of competition,

a new higher series Mercury line would act as the perfect justification to transition Lincoln products to more unique luxury vehicles. Perhaps a Mercury line could

be relaunched as a higher series and become re-skinned Titanium /SEL Fords replacing the pre 2013 Lincoln line up which in turn would allow post 2013 Lincolns

shift to more upmarket with more distinctive and unique vehicles.

 

A plan like that would allow Ford to add a ton of vehicles to Lincoln-Mercury dealerships that don't really compete as much with Ford high series vehicles

but add plenty to both Ford's production plants and bottom line profits. A step into the luxury world that would allow Lincoln to play on two levels.

 

I can also understand that I could be reading way too much into the response from dealerships but for so many to be prepared to invest serious capital, something is up..

Edited October 20, 2012 by jpd80

[Stentgraft95]

Is there room in between ford's Titanium trim level and Lincoln or are you suggesting that Ford would have to pull back in order to make that room.

[jpd80]

Is there room in between ford's Titanium trim level and Lincoln or are you suggesting that Ford would have to pull back in order to make that room.

Perhaps place a new brand in the existing Lincoln slot (re-skinned Fords) and move Lincoln to an even higher playing field (new top hats)

the re-skinned brand vehicles could then be priced closer to high series Fords...but maybe that creates more problems than it solves......

Edited October 20, 2012 by jpd80

[Stentgraft95]

 

Perhaps place a new brand in the existing Lincoln slot (re-skinned Fords) and move Lincoln to an even higher playing field (new top hats)

the re-skinned brand vehicles could then be priced closer to high series Fords...but maybe that creates more problems than it solves......

 

On the surface, I actually like this concept aside from the fact that moves me out of the price range for Ford's marquee brand!

[sullynd]

Perhaps place a new brand in the existing Lincoln slot (re-skinned Fords) and move Lincoln to an even higher playing field (new top hats)

the re-skinned brand vehicles could then be priced closer to high series Fords...but maybe that creates more problems than it solves......

 

That's a great idea, I have a name and logo ready for the re-skinned Ford brand which is priced closer to the high series Fords... Let me find it....

 

[jpd80]

I was thinking of a good way for an old friend to return, without directly competing with Ford and providing valuable products to Lincoln dealerships.

I can understand a lot of people having reservations about excess costs and duplication but maybe the benefits now outweigh the negatives?

[2005Explorer]

What difference does it make whether Lincoln is a division or a wholly owned subsidiary (separate company)? Separate companies owned by the same parent often share platforms.

 

Who cares what the name is as long as the vehicles are good. It's just marketing.

 

I know, however I just think it's goofy for them to start pretending that the Lincoln Motor Company is an independent company and has nothing to do with the Ford Motor Company all in the name of marketing. If they want to actually separate it into a wholly owned subsidiary then it would make sense, however I doubt it could function as a profitable stand alone subsidiary.

 

It is still the Lincoln division even though Ford might fool a few people that don"t know much about cars into thinking the new Lincoln is it's own company independent of Ford.

 

Anyhow I though they had a plan for Lincoln all figured out or are they just making up stuff as they go along? This interview sort of makes a person wonder that's all.

Edited October 21, 2012 by 2005Explorer

[akirby]

I just think it's goofy for them to start pretending that the Lincoln Motor Company is an independent company and has nothing to do with the Ford Motor Company all in the name of marketing.

 

Is Lexus trying to fool their customers into thinking that it's not a Toyota subsidiary or that it doesn't share platforms with them? How is what Lincoln is doing any different than what Toyota is doing with Lexus or Nissan with Infiniti or Honda with Acura?

 

Or is it just the fact that it says "motor company" at the end?

 

Would anybody in their right mind not know that Lincoln was owned by Ford?

Edited October 21, 2012 by akirby

[Kris Kolman]

Wondered if this was all a marketing move, but a business move... By splitting off Lincoln as a subsidiary would Ford have business advantages with its international push? Perhaps to untangle Lincoln from any fixed agreements the Ford brand has in certain markets. The subsidiary doesn't have to be any more than the marketing and selling side of the house, with the product development and manufacturing remaining "in-house".

[silvrsvt]

Would anybody in their right mind not know that Lincoln was owned by Ford?

 

Don't underestimate stupidity/lack of knowledge of people.

[Anthony]

Would anybody in their right mind not know that Lincoln was owned by Ford?

 

If I were to informally poll everyone is my office, most would not know. People who don't follow at least the fringe of the car industry don't know these things. I'd say most normal people outside the Midwest don't know nor care. Just like most don't know Infiniti is owned by Nissan or Lexus is owned by Toyota.

 

Most people don't know Frito Lay is owned by Pepsi and they deal with those items on a regular basis.

 

Heck, when I worked in the banking industry, you know how many people I saw refinance their mortgage with another company just to get away from the bank they were with?......and both banks were owned by the same company! These were half million dollar loans!

 

People don't care about things they don't have an interest in.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Intrepidatious

[ds91776]

About a year ago or so a friend of mine was looking to buy a new car and asked for my help since he knew I was a car industry buff. We test drove 6-7 cars and he walked away happy with an Elantra only because the Focus was in such low supply at the time. In any case while answering one of his questions about the car industry I learned that he didn't know that Lexus was created by Toyota and Acura by Honda...and this from a guy whose family had owned nothing but Hondas or Toyotas for 20 years or more. In fact...he could hardly believe it. Intrigued, I took an informal poll amongst my non-car-industry-nutt-friends and family and I would say about only half of them knew that other than BMW and Mercedes-Benz none of the luxury brands were independent companies. Not scientific, I know...but an interesting story I think for us car-guys to remember.

[ANTAUS]

One of last weeks Jeopardy questions... "Honda created this luxury brand in the 80's"...one person replied with 'Ultima"...really? No one got it correct... Granted, these aren't people that we can disqualify and say they are stupid when obviously they are in that game show, but there are just some people who dont know, or care. These are probably consumers that just buy something according to the price and if it's pretty, and thats its.

[ZanatWork]

I'm focused on the "wow, another rebuilding plan for Lincoln" babble, and-note this-"what's actually happened".

 

I'm not going to assign the new MKZ any awards until something besides show cars and "test mule spy shots" are out there. Is it attractive? Absolutely....well, I'm not a huge fan of the grille, but that's not changeable right now. How does it drive, how does it feel, especially when compared to its sibling?

 

Those bits aren't in, yet.

 

Until then...the MKS is constantly beaten up (and usually selling poorly) as too close to the Taurus. The current MKZ does better, but it's another obvious tarting-up. The MKT is beloved to few (although I have a backward affection for it, admittedly), and the Navigator was worst-in-class in most categories when last updated.

 

This is NOT impressive. No amount of excuses will change that.

 

I am mad at Ford for killing Mercury, I've never lied about that...and I'm angrier still that the dead marque-and the first car brand I ever knew or loved-is basically being clumsily mimicked by the division that was supposed to be well upstairs from them. The sins that supposedly killed Mercury are being committed by Lincoln, and it's a less-interesting division, historically.

 

If my frustration is hard for some to fathom, I find people being fine with Lincoln's mediocrity to be at least as puzzling.

 

Well, the differentiation between the MKZ and Fusion is already more than we've seen in quite some time, and as has been mentioned, the MKZ was already largely set in stone before all these new changes (design department, etc) were implemented. You seem to be focused on now/the current lineup and not the future lineup. You have to build a foundation before putting the building up. I'm sure as the brand grows/strengthens that more unique offerings in more niche markets will be pursued. What good does it do to produce one "look at me" car if the rest of the lineup isn't up to par? Start by building up the entire "mainstream" lineup and then go for the more "look at me" products.

[Edstock]

The sins that supposedly killed Mercury are being committed by Lincoln, and it's a less-interesting division, historically.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but considering that even the new MKZ is an interim design, in that it has not been done from the beginning by Max and the new gang, you have yet to see anything definitive of what Lincoln can be, yet you proclaim that Ford is doing to Lincoln what it did to Mercury.

 

 

Please explain in detail how you know this. Have you seen the next Lincolns that will be replacing the MKS and the MKT and the Navigator? Have you seen the upcoming small Lincoln? Please tell us how these new vehicles are signs that Ford is doing a Mercury with the Lincoln brand.

[sullynd]

One of last weeks Jeopardy questions... "Honda created this luxury brand in the 80's"...one person replied with 'Ultima"...really?

 

When the wife and I test drove a Fit years ago (We were considering a Fiesta before we got the Flex, but it wasn't available yet, so we test drove a Fit to get a sense of a small car) the sales kid in the back told me that Hondas were good cars, because they are made by Acura.

Edited October 21, 2012 by sullynd

[akirby]

If I were to informally poll everyone is my office, most would not know. People who don't follow at least the fringe of the car industry don't know these things. I'd say most normal people outside the Midwest don't know nor care. Just like most don't know Infiniti is owned by Nissan or Lexus is owned by Toyota.

 

Most people don't know Frito Lay is owned by Pepsi and they deal with those items on a regular basis.

 

Heck, when I worked in the banking industry, you know how many people I saw refinance their mortgage with another company just to get away from the bank they were with?......and both banks were owned by the same company! These were half million dollar loans!

 

People don't care about things they don't have an interest in.

 

Sorry - what I meant was would it matter to someone who was looking to buy a Lincoln vehicle whether it was called Lincoln or Lincoln Motor Company or LMC or whether it was a division or a separate company? I don't believe so and that was my point.

[akirby]

I am mad at Ford for killing Mercury, I've never lied about that...and I'm angrier still that the dead marque-and the first car brand I ever knew or loved-is basically being clumsily mimicked by the division that was supposed to be well upstairs from them. The sins that supposedly killed Mercury are being committed by Lincoln, and it's a less-interesting division, historically.

 

If my frustration is hard for some to fathom, I find people being fine with Lincoln's mediocrity to be at least as puzzling.

 

Nobody here is "fine" with the CURRENT crop of Lincolns. I don't think anyone would argue they need to be better. But that doesn't make the current ones complete failures, either.

 

You say that Lincoln is mimicking what was done with Mercury and that's just ridiculous. The new Lincoln brand revival was just started last year. How could they possibly make all the changes that need to be made including 7 new products in 1 or 2 years? You have to look at what they're doing differently now than what they were doing before. Namely:

 

Hired a dedicated Lincoln design chief and a staff of 150 who work on nothing but Lincoln. When did they do that for Mercury?

 

Required dealers to provide a separate Lincoln experience (and 80% have already agreed) based on 5 star hotel concierge service.

 

Committed to 100% unique sheetmetal and drivetrains including ecoboost options (this is not just taking the v6 away from Fusion). This was certainly never even considered for Mercury since Mercuries even shared interiors with Fords.

 

Committed to a full lineup of 7 vehicles.

 

Committed to unique features (Led lighting, retractable glass roofs, electronic suspension, push button gear selection, etc. etc.)

 

 

This is NOTHING like Ford has ever done with Lincoln or Mercury in the past and this is why we're optimistic about Lincoln's future and it has nothing to do with whether they have a "BMW killer' or bespoke platforms.

 

So either you don't know what they're doing or you don't believe they'll actually do it to which we would simply say - wait and see and you'll be proven wrong.

[2005Explorer]

Sorry - what I meant was would it matter to someone who was looking to buy a Lincoln vehicle whether it was called Lincoln or Lincoln Motor Company or LMC or whether it was a division or a separate company? I don't believe so and that was my point.

 

So then why would Ford be wasting time and marketing dollars on trying to re-brand the company to LMC or whatever? They might actually want people to know that Lincoln is a Ford Motor Company product since it is quite likely that the Ford name is more respected by the general public.

 

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but the Lincoln brand isn't exactly held in high regards like it was 50 years ago. With that said, maybe they will need to re-brand the luxury division as time goes on. I guess it comes down to how the "new Lincolns" do. If they do well then we know it was only a product problem. If they deliver the product, but the brand is still struggling then maybe it's time to dump the old Lincoln name.

 

Heck I think the same it true of Buick in the U.S. and if not for China that brand would have been dumped long ago.

Edited October 21, 2012 by 2005Explorer

[Edstock]

I guess it comes down to how the "new Lincolns" do.

 

It's all about the product. Always has been, always will be.

[rmc523]

I'm focused on the "wow, another rebuilding plan for Lincoln" babble, and-note this-"what's actually happened".

 

I'm not going to assign the new MKZ any awards until something besides show cars and "test mule spy shots" are out there. Is it attractive? Absolutely....well, I'm not a huge fan of the grille, but that's not changeable right now. How does it drive, how does it feel, especially when compared to its sibling?

 

Those bits aren't in, yet.

 

Until then...the MKS is constantly beaten up (and usually selling poorly) as too close to the Taurus. The current MKZ does better, but it's another obvious tarting-up. The MKT is beloved to few (although I have a backward affection for it, admittedly), and the Navigator was worst-in-class in most categories when last updated.

 

This is NOT impressive. No amount of excuses will change that.

 

I am mad at Ford for killing Mercury, I've never lied about that...and I'm angrier still that the dead marque-and the first car brand I ever knew or loved-is basically being clumsily mimicked by the division that was supposed to be well upstairs from them. The sins that supposedly killed Mercury are being committed by Lincoln, and it's a less-interesting division, historically.

 

If my frustration is hard for some to fathom, I find people being fine with Lincoln's mediocrity to be at least as puzzling.

 

As akirby said, nobody here is saying that the current Lincoln lineup is spectacular and should be left alone.....on the contrary, I think most agree that the lineup needs to be redone top to bottom. Though a nice vehicle, most have said the MKS is too close to the Taurus since the Taurus debuted [after it]. The current MKZ is not even worth discussing as we know what its successor looks/is like. MKT is a good product that missed exterior design-wise, which obviously hurts its sales - the interior is great. One can't argue that there isn't differentiation between the Flex and MKT. Navigator most agree, including myself that it's got outclassed powertrains, a not very good looking exterior, and maybe an ok interior. That said, if the word from PREMiERdrum on the next-gen Navigator is correct, it sounds like it's going to be a great product.

 

Nobody is "fine" with Lincoln's current mediocrity, we're just choosing to look forward at what's coming rather than what is here now, which except for the MKZ (and even it doesn't fully fall under the new lineup), isn't much. Yes, it is another rebuilding effort for the brand, but the changes that have been implemented or are being implemented have not been seen in prior attempts (at least that I'm aware of), at the very least giving this effort a much better chance to succeed.

 

When the wife and I test drove a Fit years ago (We were considering a Fiesta before we got the Flex, but it wasn't available yet, so we test drove a Fit to get a sense of a small car) the sales kid in the back told me that Hondas were good cars, because they are made by Acura.

 

Yeah, I have to keep my mouth shut many times when going to test drive various vehicles (mostly Ford or Lincoln), some of the stuff they say is completely wrong.