Ford gets downgraded on rising SUV competition from GM

[rmc523]

 

 

Well Ford changed the F-150 pretty quickly...new front end and other stuff 2-3 years after it launched in 2015. Seems like Ford is trying to cement their lead over the competition and the F-series is going to be getting lots of changes the next 24-36 months

 

Don't forget about the Diesel and Hybrid F-150s...

 

PremierDrum mentioned somewhat recently that they were about to start getting very aggressive with updates to the F-Series

 

Pedal to the metal!

[MKX1960]

 

Especially considering you can get a very closely related pickup starting in the mid-to-high 20s. Low-to-mid 30s if you go crew cab.

It's also likely there are more incentives on the F-150.

[630land]

Seems like to average people, the only full size SUV's sold are Tahoe and Suburban, seen all over media. So, they assume Ford only sells pickups and rental cars. Analysits on the coasts only see government issued GM Utes and assume same. Not fair , but Ford's gotta get the word out

Edited August 7, 2017 by 630land

[MKX1960]

He opened up the discussion by including crew cab F150 and no doubt that does get cross shopped against

the more expensive Expedition.

 

Lots of vehicles get cross shopped regardless of whether we think it's aligned product or not. Buyers go in wanting

one vehicle and on plenty of occasions come away with something different to originally planned.....

 

.

I'm cross shopping Limited F-150 with Platinum Expedition. After seeing pricing, I've all but written off the Expedition.

[MKX1960]

I suspect the people cross shopping an F150 and Expedition are pretty low. Either you want a truck or you don't. I have never considered an Expedition in lieu of a truck and I know a lot of truck owners who would think similarly. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but they are very different vehicles in reality.

I went from a 14 F-150 Tremor to a 16 Expedition Platinum. I don't do any towing and the only hauling is groceries or a few items from Home Depot. I kept the Expedition 2 days short of a year and traded for a 17 Explorer Platinum.

[akirby]

Seems like to average people, the only full size SUV's sold are Tahoe and Suburban, seen all over media. So, they assume Ford only sells pickups and rental cars. Analysits on the coasts only see government issued GM Utes and assume same. Not fair , but Ford's gotta get the word out

 

 

Expedition is more truck-like (exterior) and when it comes to women shopping vehicles they tend to like what their girlfriends are driving and that's where GM's sales lead pays off.

 

I expect the new Expedition to counter that and start turning the tide but it may be a decade or more before Ford catches GM given their huge and long sales lead.

[630land]

Having a new Equinox and Traverse adds to the image, too.

[rmc523]

Seems like to average people, the only full size SUV's sold are Tahoe and Suburban, seen all over media. So, they assume Ford only sells pickups and rental cars. Analysits on the coasts only see government issued GM Utes and assume same. Not fair , but Ford's gotta get the word out

 

Well, it hasn't helped the Expedition/Navigator haven't been worth advertising in 10 years (aside from the McConoughey dog ad for Navigator).......and really 14 years since they were truly all new for 2003.

 

I'm guessing they'll make a big advertising push with the new ones out.

[jasonj80]

PremierDrum mentioned somewhat recently that they were about to start getting very aggressive with updates to the F-Series

I do suspect there will be surprises over next year as the new GM twins and RAM are new next year. Diesel production starts in Feb.

[tbone]

 

Well, it hasn't helped the Expedition/Navigator haven't been worth advertising in 10 years (aside from the McConoughey dog ad for Navigator).......and really 14 years since they were truly all new for 2003.

 

I'm guessing they'll make a big advertising push with the new ones out.

I think Ford advertising leaves a lot to be desired. They don't do a good job of pushing their products as far asI'm concerned.

[rmc523]

I think Ford advertising leaves a lot to be desired. They don't do a good job of pushing their products as far asI'm concerned.

I agree, at least outside of the trucks. The trucks are consistently advertised, and the ads are updated. Everything else is pretty much advertise a bit at launch and then nothing.

At least we don't have to endure any "real people, not actors" ads from our favorite brand.

Edited August 8, 2017 by rmc523

[kyle]

 

 

Expedition is more truck-like (exterior) and when it comes to women shopping vehicles they tend to like what their girlfriends are driving and that's where GM's sales lead pays off.

 

I expect the new Expedition to counter that and start turning the tide but it may be a decade or more before Ford catches GM given their huge and long sales lead.

This was my point when saying Expedition and Navigator are an unknown since they haven't proved anything yet. Do I think they will sell well? Sure do but GM is not going to let them steal market share from them without putting up a huge fight. GM can be more aggressive on the incentives and if you've been to any Cadillac store it is far and away a nicer

Place than most Lincoln stores. General statement before I get the handful of examples where Lincoln has a nicer facility than a Cadillac point.

[rperez817]

Seems like to average people, the only full size SUV's sold are Tahoe and Suburban, seen all over media.

 

In that segment, GM has something around 75% market share. In Texas, it's probably even higher. The plant that makes them in Arlington is running full steam to meet demand.

[papilgee4evaeva]

This was my point when saying Expedition and Navigator are an unknown since they haven't proved anything yet. Do I think they will sell well? Sure do but GM is not going to let them steal market share from them without putting up a huge fight. GM can be more aggressive on the incentives and if you've been to any Cadillac store it is far and away a nicer

Place than most Lincoln stores. General statement before I get the handful of examples where Lincoln has a nicer facility than a Cadillac point.

 

And don't forget GM has a plant dedicated to its big SUVs, whereas the Expedition and Navigator share a building with the Super Duty. Probably not very likely that Ford can build more anywhere else (if I'm wrong, someone tell me).

 

RE: the stores - are you talking only about the ones that are dedicated Cadillac dealers, or are you including the ones that share lot space with the Chevy Sonic?

[fordmantpw]

 

And don't forget GM has a plant dedicated to its big SUVs, whereas the Expedition and Navigator share a building with the Super Duty. Probably not very likely that Ford can build more anywhere else (if I'm wrong, someone tell me).

 

Ford has the flexibility to move more Super Duty cab & chassis production away from KTP and to OHAP. Those trucks are built in both places, however the SD pickup is only built at KTP.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Ford has the flexibility to move more Super Duty cab & chassis production away from KTP and to OHAP. Those trucks are built in both places, however the SD pickup is only built at KTP.

 

Yeah, that's what I was mainly referring to. Does chassis cab production really move the needle in comparison to the pickups though?

[tbone]

This was my point when saying Expedition and Navigator are an unknown since they haven't proved anything yet. Do I think they will sell well? Sure do but GM is not going to let them steal market share from them without putting up a huge fight. GM can be more aggressive on the incentives and if you've been to any Cadillac store it is far and away a nicer

Place than most Lincoln stores. General statement before I get the handful of examples where Lincoln has a nicer facility than a Cadillac point.

Now that the Expedition has softer lines and is really similarly styled as the Explorer, I think it will penetrate the market deeper this time. They sell tons of Explorers and a large number are driven by women.

 

I agree the Lincoln dealerships are suspect. I hope this is something Ford works to address in the near future, especially since they are finally getting great products to put in them. Every time I drive by a Ford/Lincoln dealership near me and see the two brands mixed together, it really pisses me off.

[jpd80]

As recently as June, Louisville has been pumping out over 40,000 builds in a single month:

Super Duty.............32,192

Expedition................6,286

Navigator..................1,785

TOTAL....................40,253

 

 

With regard to Super Duty production transferred to Avon Lake,

that production appears to be slightly more than 500 builds.

 

Avon Lake June production

E Series................5,808

Super Duty...............569

Medium Duty............911

TOTAL..................7,288.

 

Arlington June Production:

Escalade....................2,735

Escalade ESV............1,826

Suburban...................5,993

Tahoe.......................11,854

Yukon.........................4,666

Yukon XL....................3,669

TOTAL......................30,743

 

While the new Expedition and Navigator should curry a lot of interest with buyers,

I think GM's lead in production of full sized Utilities in a dedicated plant is quite safe

[SoonerLS]

This was my point when saying Expedition and Navigator are an unknown since they haven't proved anything yet. Do I think they will sell well? Sure do but GM is not going to let them steal market share from them without putting up a huge fight. GM can be more aggressive on the incentives and if you've been to any Cadillac store it is far and away a nicer

Place than most Lincoln stores. General statement before I get the handful of examples where Lincoln has a nicer facility than a Cadillac point.

That has been a problem for Lincoln, and not just with respect to Cadillac; by all reports, the Lincoln stores were lagging behind almost all of the luxury marques. It's one of the reasons that they've been pushing hard on Lincoln dealers to update and upgrade their facilities over the last decade. My local Lincoln dealership wasn't as nice as the Ford shop next door (same owner), and they ended up making it an annex to the Ford store and moving the Lincoln dealership to another location they bought (and brought up to the new Lincoln standard) about 30 minutes away on the other side of OKC.

 

Strangely enough, the only Lincoln dealership ads I see are from a dealership in El Reno, about 20 minutes west of OKC. They tout the Black Label program in their understated ads, FWIW.

[SoonerLS]

I agree, at least outside of the trucks. The trucks are consistently advertised, and the ads are updated. Everything else is pretty much advertise a bit at launch and then nothing.

At least we don't have to endure any "real people, not actors" ads from our favorite brand.

I first heard the phrase "launch and abandon" in relation to Ford's marketing efforts for pretty much everything except the F-Series and Mustang back in the early '90s. Some things never change, although they really should...

 

I couldn't tell you the last time I saw an ad specifically for the Fusion or Focus...

[jpd80]

The reduction in Fusion and Focus sales is not really attributed to a lack of advertising,

confirming the decision to not spend more in a segment that's in full retreat.

[SoonerLS]

The reduction in Fusion and Focus sales is not really attributed to a lack of advertising,

I neither said nor implied that it was, I only said I don't recall seeing ads for either vehicle in a very long time.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I neither said nor implied that it was, I only said I don't recall seeing ads for either vehicle in a very long time.

the big 3 they were pushing on Hulu last month were Fusion, Explorer, and F-150

[jpd80]

I neither said nor implied that it was, I only said I don't recall seeing ads for either vehicle in a very long time.

Not directed at anyone.

[silvrsvt]

I neither said nor implied that it was, I only said I don't recall seeing ads for either vehicle in a very long time.

 

 

Define what medium those ads are done though. To be honest there is so much advertising these days that everything more or less gets mixed together unless there is some sort of stand out advertisement.