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Bronco reportedly getting 7 Speed matched with 2.7L Ecoboost

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As much as I'm annoyed with Ford's apparently inability to control the releases of its own product news lately, I'm also disappointed that every Bronco rumor goes from zero to ridiculous assumption in about one second.

It's gonna be a mid-sized, off-road focused SUV with 300-ish hp.  As much as I'm a member of the "save the manuals" club, a good auto isn't a deal breaker.  I also have no real opinion on a hybrid version, as I wouldn't be likely to buy that variant.

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13 minutes ago, ZanatWork said:

As much as I'm annoyed with Ford's apparently inability to control the releases of its own product news lately, I'm also disappointed that every Bronco rumor goes from zero to ridiculous assumption in about one second.

It's gonna be a mid-sized, off-road focused SUV with 300-ish hp.  As much as I'm a member of the "save the manuals" club, a good auto isn't a deal breaker.  I also have no real opinion on a hybrid version, as I wouldn't be likely to buy that variant.

that over-reaction is a barometer of how much hype and excitement there is about this release...

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10 hours ago, ANTAUS said:

3.5L/3.7L was dropped as an option in the Edge, Mustang and F150.  Edge just has the 2.0L and 2.7L in Sport trim to simplify the offerings...  The 3.7L was dropped in the F150 and MKX as well. I would expect that MKT and Flex would be next to drop it, as they are dropped as well. The 2.3L can do the job, with more torque, so might as well simplify things.

 

There is a difference between dropped and replaced.  The F150 still has a base V6, 3.3L.

Drivetrains are always updated and/or replaced, nothing is static.  Unless you're talking about Ram.

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16 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

How about instead of replacing EVERY window in the train station, maybe every other one and bricking up the others? Yes I know, I'm narrow minded and the train station will pay long term dividends long after the next Bronco is forgotten.  My grandkids will enjoy the dividends generated because of all the brilliant minds that will flock to Ford to work in that magnificent structure.😎

Well guys I guess I have to back off a bit.  I have to say, with 3 EB's in my family (mine a 68 and one son a 68 and another a 74) we have a bit of passion on this subject.  And reading this gloom and doom set me off-but with Hatchett at the controls, what can you expect?    What passion for Ford does he have beyond his perception of what is good for the bottom line.  And no flames please- I get it-that is what it is all about.

Yesterday the WSJ had a half page article on the new..."reinvented city center".  Article goes on to list numerous large projects including hotels and commercial space.  Goes on to say vacancy rates in Rennaisasance Center were 1.9% in 3rd qtr.  Also mentioned Ford's $740 million makeover that..."will bring about 2500 jobs".

Sooo-having said that, if Hatchett is chopping funds for new product, at least once the severance packages are covered for the 2500 employees in the Train Station,  the family can always rent it. 

And I should add-one reason why I remain so loyal to Ford IS the fact it is one of the last true family businesses of any size in this country.  And there is no doubt-their allegiance to Detroit has to be a key factor in the train station issue.

Just wish they would at times have a bit more passion toward their legacy beyond Detroit.  Then again, who knows,  I'm told Bill Ford has a passion for BIG trucks-perhaps Avon Lake will get some dollars to meet the new threat coming from GM/Navistar. Oh but that is another thread-sorry.

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I'm pretty sure anything with longitude engine and 10 speed auto will be available with hybrid eventually down the road. That was the whole reason for aligning every mid to large size vehicles with F-150 drivetrain development.

If Ford is going to sell a F-150 hybrid, then it will pay the bills for an Explorer, Mustang, Transit, Bronco, Ranger, Bronco hybrid too. And maybe also an Edge hybrid depending on where the next get goes.

What I'm thinking is that Ford is going to slow-trot a lot of the hybrid models until F-150 hybrid is printing money. F-150 hybrid is the volume model that will lower the cost for every other model. In the early going, you will only see hybrid on select high MSRP applications like Aviator GT or Mustang GT where Ford is not as exposed on marginal costs of the hybrid component. But once F-150 hybrid plows the rest of the field, you will see hybrid everything with every engine.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, bzcat said:

If Ford is going to sell a F-150 hybrid, then it will pay the bills for an Explorer, Mustang, Transit, Bronco, Ranger, Bronco hybrid too.

Nope, a hybrid power train developed primarily for F150 still has to be justified for use in each of the vehicles you mentioned. If the business case for adding that  expenditure against expected return from sales does not stand up, it won't be approved....

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6 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Nope, a hybrid power train developed primarily for F150 still has to be justified for use in each of the vehicles you mentioned. If the business case for adding that  expenditure against expected return from sales does not stand up, it won't be approved....

From the way I'm understanding it, the only work that will be needed is to place the battery pack in the vehicle-everything else is self contained to the powerpack (Engine/Transmission)-the F-150 sales would pay for that alone and putting a battery pack/engineering for it would be alot cheaper.

 

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As far as I'm aware, the Hybrid squeaked by so don't get too alarmed yet.  And I don't believe Ford acknowledged that a Hybrid Bronco was on the table, they haven't really talked about it besides telling us it will be available in 2 and 4 door and was geared less for rock climbing and more for dessert running like the Raptor.  I imagine Bronco to be as a little more capable than Ranger or Everest, but not quite as extreme as Wrangler.  

Edited by Assimilator

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53 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

And I don't believe Ford acknowledged that a Hybrid Bronco was on the table,

The 2020 Ford Bronco is one of several models for which Ford has now confirmed a hybrid variant. The Bronco promises head-turning design and a hybrid version that doesn’t sacrifice truck toughness, and it should make an intriguing mashup of old and new.

published April 26, after the investor meeting. 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a20073583/after-gutting-its-car-lineup-ford-to-hybridize-bronco-and-other-trucks-and-suvs/

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3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Nope, a hybrid power train developed primarily for F150 still has to be justified for use in each of the vehicles you mentioned. If the business case for adding that  expenditure against expected return from sales does not stand up, it won't be approved....

Yes, but the cost is substantially lower for those models because it is basically just the battery costs. The sunks cost involved in the development of the hybrid system are borne by the F-150.

And also, I don't think you realize that there is no option for Ford to forgo hybridization - it must be done. 2025 CAFE is still with us despite all kinds of nonsense from the White House. The car companies have all quietly closed rank in support of status quo... no one wants the rule to change now. There won't be any new mid or large size vehicles or performance cars without batteries for sale as we go beyond 2025. The regulatory framework has already decided that for Ford. This is why CD6 switched to longitude engine... to take advantage of the economy of scale afforded by the F-150 volume. Bronco may start off without a hybrid option but hybrid may be the only Bronco still for sale after 2025. You can substitute Mustang, or Aviator, or any number of mid or large size Ford vehicles in that last sentence.

This is clearly evident in Ford's thinking and explains why the new RWD hybrid system is basically attached to the 10 speed auto. It can (and probably will) be added to all RWD vehicles sooner or later with all different engines. The only variable will be the size of the batteries, which will vary according to application and function.

Edited by bzcat

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24 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Yes, but the cost is substantially lower for those models because it is basically just the battery costs. The sunks cost involved in the development of the hybrid system are borne by the F-150.

And also, I don't think you realize that there is no option for Ford to forgo hybridization - it must be done. 2025 CAFE is still with us despite all kinds of nonsense from the White House. The car companies have all quietly closed rank in support of status quo... no one wants the rule to change now. There won't be any new mid or large size vehicles or performance cars without batteries for sale as we go beyond 2025. The regulatory framework has already decided that for Ford. This is why CD6 switched to longitude engine... to take advantage of the economy of scale afforded by the F-150 volume. Bronco may start off without a hybrid option but hybrid may be the only Bronco still for sale after 2025. You can substitute Mustang, or Aviator, or any number of mid or large size Ford vehicles in that last sentence.

This is clearly evident in Ford's thinking and explains why the new RWD hybrid system is basically attached to the 10 speed auto. It can (and probably will) be added to all RWD vehicles sooner or later with all different engines. The only variable will be the size of the batteries, which will vary according to application and function.

Bz, to expand upon your thought, it would then make sense that Mustang might indeed eventually end up on CD6 (to take advantage of its built in battery packaging capability) or the Mustang chassis for the upcoming hybrid already has enough space (somewhere?) to carry its battery pack.

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It could be argued that the coalition of voters who delivered the White House to Trump in 2016 also delivered a mandate to do away with (or significantly reduce) the 2025 CAFE numbers.  Whether or not that mandate is/was durable enough to survive successive elections may never be known.  The 2018 election went down as a split decision so it's hard to read the tea leaves there.  It'd be very interesting to see the results if the CAFE standards be put to a direct ballot referendum.  Personally, I think there's far less support for them among the car-buying public than the regulators in DC think there is.

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What mandate, he lost the popular vote in 16

Edited by pictor

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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

And also, I don't think you realize that there is no option for Ford to forgo hybridization - it must be done. 2025 CAFE is still with us despite all kinds of nonsense from the White House. The car companies have all quietly closed rank in support of status quo... no one wants the rule to change now. There won't be any new mid or large size vehicles or performance cars without batteries for sale as we go beyond 2025. The regulatory framework has already decided that for Ford. This is why CD6 switched to longitude engine... to take advantage of the economy of scale afforded by the F-150 volume. Bronco may start off without a hybrid option but hybrid may be the only Bronco still for sale after 2025. You can substitute Mustang, or Aviator, or any number of mid or large size Ford vehicles in that last sentence.

This is clearly evident in Ford's thinking and explains why the new RWD hybrid system is basically attached to the 10 speed auto. It can (and probably will) be added to all RWD vehicles sooner or later with all different engines. The only variable will be the size of the batteries, which will vary according to application and function.

I've sent you a PM.

I'm aware of what you're saying, there's a lot being talked about internally regarding cost cutting,  it may well be that hybrids are green lighted,

I know you think it's all worked out but it's not the slam dunk decison you make it out to be, some decisions are really hard.

Edited by jpd80

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22 hours ago, mackinaw said:

Let me get this straight.  You're basing your assumption on a unsubstantiated rumor for a vehicle nobody's ever seen, much less driven.  

Only on BON.

And based on recent choices they are making. You can't be the only one not noticing that the quality of Fords or the constant cost cutting, increasing recalls and general disarray with the corporate decisions. I'll admit it is too early to make a call on Bronco, but the other choices Ford has made as of late seem to involve cutting and retreating.

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16 minutes ago, pictor said:

What mandate, he lost the popular vote in 16

Two quick lessons:

1.The US is a Republic, not a direct democracy

 2. Political talk will be dealt with harshly if it goes beyond this. 

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Politics aside, automakers have to roll with the punches and if CAFE is being reviewed, I'm sure that GM, Ford and FCA will lobby to protect their vehicles and push for changes that suit them and more profits (Large trucks and SUVs)

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I don't think Ford would have dropped all of it's cars and EVs if they were concerned they couldn't meet CAFE regs without them.

Although Ford has some BEVs arriving, they still see a long future for Hybrids as the best efficiency solution for the most customers.  They have said they will be the largest Hybrid manufacturer in the world, and I'm sure most of that has to do with F-150.

There is definitely a clash in philosophies, VW and GM are going all in on BEVs while Ford and Toyota are not.

 

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I do believe that Hybrids are the way for the future, specifically plug in hybrids. That said please god Ford don't cheap out like I think you will. 

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4 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I do believe that Hybrids are the way for the future, specifically plug in hybrids. That said please god Ford don't cheap out like I think you will. 

Don't count on it (not cheaping out, that is).

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Who knows, attitudes may have shifted towards future BEVs at Ford and they want to fund those instead of Hybridizing absolutely everything.  Ford's Hybrid strategy is very similar to EcoBoost, robust and scalable technology that makes class-leading power from lower displacement which usually comes with class-leading fuel economy.  It can either be the reason you buy the vehicle, or have no impact on your decision at all, but it should just works for all customers.  Like anything else, in order to overcome resistance, you need to offer only benefits with the technology, no compromises.  The F-150 and the 3.5L EcoBoost is a case study in exceeding expectations to overcome long-held beliefs, however even with superior performance across the board for EcoBoost, people still have existing preferences that Ford must service too.  

What's interesting to me is that Ford has had zero influence on the rest of the industry interms of Drivetrains, Aluminum, etc, nobody is really mimicking them at all.  That might be the case for their Hybrid strategy as well.  

 

 

Edited by Assimilator

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9 hours ago, MY93SHO said:

There is a difference between dropped and replaced.  The F150 still has a base V6, 3.3L.

Drivetrains are always updated and/or replaced, nothing is static.  Unless you're talking about Ram.

Beat me to it. F150 is also a bad example because they added two engines to the lineup (3.0 PSD and EB27) while only dropping one (6.2), so they're a net +1 over where they were in '11.

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I say kill CAFE... 

 

If liberals want more efficient vehicles, then they can put their money where their mouth is and only buy fuel efficient vehicles.  Lead by example, not force.

 

This is just another terrible example of a political party using the power of government to restrict free trade and dictate what we can and can't purchase. 

 

We should all be able to buy an H2, or a V10 Dodge Viper if we so wish, and can afford to throw down the moola.

Edited by probowler

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5 hours ago, Assimilator said:

I don't think Ford would have dropped all of it's cars and EVs if they were concerned they couldn't meet CAFE regs without them.

Under CAFE, Utilities are considered trucks and have different fuel economy targets to those of similar sized cars but not only that, the required overall fleet average can changes in favor of the heavier, less fuel economic mix. ..In a way, CAFE is helping legislate cars out of existence, who is going to keep selling cars that make less profit compared to utilities and also have tougher CAFE fuel targets.

 

Hybrids will come to most Ford vehicles but my hunch is that they will be delayed until Ford absolutely needs to sell them.

Edited by jpd80

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14 hours ago, bzcat said:

Yes, but the cost is substantially lower for those models because it is basically just the battery costs. The sunks cost involved in the development of the hybrid system are borne by the F-150.

This could be said by many parts of the Explorer, Ranger and Bronco.  I will NOT give any credit to Big Jim on the plan to "re-use" as much as possible from the F150 and Mustang in these vehicles.  Obviously the next generation Edge will follow this.

I would like to see the Continental continued, especially in its longer version, again, using many of the same components as possible.

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