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rmc523

Ford October 2019 Sales Chart

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Some ugly numbers for cars, but it's to be expected.

 

Hopefully Explorer and Escape can start pushing numbers back up.  Lincoln overall is doing very well, which is awesome to see.

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Combined Ranger/F series YTD - 800K, up 50K over last year's F series only.   That's 50K incremental volume for Ranger.  So much for Ranger stealing too many F series sales.

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I think GM already demonstrated that midsize truck wouldn't steal fullsize sales. That's what gave Ford to confidence to go forward with fast track process to bring T6 Ranger to the US.

 

At the end of the day, I think having Ranger being absent from the market for a few years was a positive. It cycled out/weened the bargain buyers out of the old Ranger market and gave Ford essentially a clean slate to price the new truck properly to reflect demand and competition. 

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3 hours ago, akirby said:

So much for Ranger stealing too many F series sales.

 

Who thought that Ranger "steals" F Series sales? 

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14 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Who thought that Ranger "steals" F Series sales? 

 

It's naturally a fear.  And was also one of the reasons we didn't get Ranger years ago.

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4 hours ago, akirby said:

Combined Ranger/F series YTD - 800K, up 50K over last year's F series only.   That's 50K incremental volume for Ranger.  So much for Ranger stealing too many F series sales.

 

I wonder, a year ago, when all the planners were thinking about what the Ranger would do in CY 2019, were they thinking in the under-100K range, or above?  With 2 months to go, it's looking like somewhere between 80 and 85K

 

HRG

Edited by HotRunrGuy

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20 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Who thought that Ranger "steals" F Series sales? 

 

It was a common theory by a lot of people as to why we didn't get Ranger sooner.

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2 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

I wonder, a year ago, when all the planners were thinking about what the Ranger would do in CY 2019, were they thinking in the under-100K range, or above?  With 2 months to go, it's looking like somewhere between 80 and 85K

 

HRG

 

Not sure but I bet it was fairly conservative considering the slow rollout and limited options and only running one shift.   I don't think they care a lot about volume until they get the new platform and a full array of models and features.

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Look at Aviator go!  Over 1,500 in October.

 

Explorer inventory looks to be back in shape. Not growth numbers, but it's a more expensive vehicle with fewer incentivizing so it's doing better that I feared.  

 

Ranger outsold Colorado, although not the GM pair combined, but it is getting close.

 

 

Edited by Assimilator

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Who thought that Ranger "steals" F Series sales? 

Ford did the moment Derrick Kuzak said that Ranger was seven eights the size of F150.

 

The real reason Ranger is back again is because it is the second most profitable vehicle

for Ford, so it was an easy decision to end Focus and put Ranger at MAP.

 

While F150 may be down a few units thanks to Ranger, I wonder if Colorado is taking 

an even bigger hit, I've noticed it's sales continue to fall as Ranger holds at  8,000 sales.

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While F150 may be down a few units thanks to Ranger, I wonder if Colorado is taking 

an even bigger hit, I've noticed it's sales continue to fall as Ranger holds at  8,000 sales.

Camaro is also fading, 2,756 and not a good sign for surviving to another generation...

 

7,513 sales for Lincoln Utilities,

Aviator 1,540
MKC 2,167
MKT 96
Nautilus/MKX 2,356
Navigator  1,354

 

That's awesome, Well done Lincoln.

Edited by jpd80

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Ford did the moment Derrick Kuzak said that Ranger was seven eights the size of F150.

 

Thank you jpd80 sir. You are absolutely correct, I found this article from pickuptrucks.com 9 years ago that confirms what you said. https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/09/ford-previews-all-new-global-ranger-but-its-not-coming-to-north-america.html

 

"The new Ranger is 90 percent of the size of an F-150"

 

I remember that Ford executives made all sorts of silly excuses for not introducing T6 Ranger to U.S. and Canada markets earlier. Didn't realize that Kuzak made that comparison to F-150 as one of those excuses. Sure enough, he did.

 

Anyway, Ford's past mistakes and excuses in this regard are past. 2019 Ranger in U.S. is off to a great first year. And having Ranger in the lineup virtually guarantees that Ford will steal the title of "U.S. pickup truck sales leader" from GM when 2019 comes to an end. As a 2019 Ranger owner, that makes me happy.

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If anything the F-150 steals sales from the Ranger considering some pretty heavy discounting on certain models that can bring it's cost close to the Ranger.

 

The whole "it's 90% the size of an F-150" argument that Ford used back when the T6 was released doesn't hold up when you see an F-150 and Ranger parked side by side. There's a significant size difference in real life.

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The market for compact pickups is growing in the  world, so much so that Ford is developing a pickup truck based on the C2 platform.  Nautilus and Corsair so doing well.  Aviator could be better if not for everything that happened

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Mustang sales atrocious...i dont really know how much longer ford can continue to keep it at that rate...another month and continual mounting evidence the entire health of the company is dependent on F series....they better hope there is not another shift into high mpg sedans as they have nothing to offer...we get 12.9mpg average on our fleet of explorers...new 2020 explorer is due early next year...we have had only minor issues on the fleet so hope they get chiraq figured out soon.

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6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you jpd80 sir. You are absolutely correct, I found this article from pickuptrucks.com 9 years ago that confirms what you said. https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/09/ford-previews-all-new-global-ranger-but-its-not-coming-to-north-america.html

 

 

 

 

I remember that Ford executives made all sorts of silly excuses for not introducing T6 Ranger to U.S. and Canada markets earlier. Didn't realize that Kuzak made that comparison to F-150 as one of those excuses. Sure enough, he did.

 

Anyway, Ford's past mistakes and excuses in this regard are past. 2019 Ranger in U.S. is off to a great first year. And having Ranger in the lineup virtually guarantees that Ford will steal the title of "U.S. pickup truck sales leader" from GM when 2019 comes to an end. As a 2019 Ranger owner, that makes me happy.

They missed a golden opportunity to have Ranger in MAP in  2011 and Focus in Mexico with Fiesta but I guess

Focus at MAP was needed to qualify for the DOE loan for more efficient vehicles. I just wish that Ford had found

another way to have cars in Mexico and all trucks and Utes made in the USA and Canada.

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1 hour ago, snooter said:

Mustang sales atrocious...i dont really know how much longer ford can continue to keep it at that rate...another month and continual mounting evidence the entire health of the company is dependent on F series....they better hope there is not another shift into high mpg sedans as they have nothing to offer...

The two highest profit vehicle groups in Ford are   F series and Ranger, after that it’s a toss up between Transit and Explorer. All the rest cover costs and maybe small profit.

 

Everything has and always will spin on the profit generated by F series, fields knew that but Hackett thinks he knows better

 

Mustang and Bronco are both considered iconic heritage vehicles and neither is going anywhere as Ford has just agreed to a next gen Mustang in the new UAW contract

 

a little birdie told me that if Camaro sales don’t lift, it’s toast as all the money was spent doubling down on CT4 and CT5

Stupid is as stupid does I guess, if a $35k LT1 was the rescue plan for Camaro, it’s all too late.

Edited by jpd80

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28 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The two highest profit vehicle groups in Ford are   F series and Ranger, after that it’s a toss up between Transit and Explorer. All the rest cover costs and maybe small profit.

 

Everything has and always will spin on the profit generated by F series, fields knew that but Hackett thinks he knows better

 

Mustang and Bronco are both considered iconic heritage vehicles and neither is going anywhere as Ford has just agreed to a next gen Mustang in the new UAW contract

 

a little birdie told me that if Camaro sales don’t lift, it’s toast as all the money was spent doubling down on CT4 and CT5

Stupid is as stupid does I guess, if a $35k LT1 was the rescue plan for Camaro, it’s all too late.

 

Would Bronco technically fall under the Ranger family or is that it's own thing despite being under the T6 umbrella?

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23 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

Would Bronco technically fall under the Ranger family or is that it's own thing despite being under the T6 umbrella?

It's like this, Bronco is the first vehicle on the next gen T6 platform and was done in two parts, the engineering package sets the parameters that will cover Bronco, Ranger, Everest and Amarok. The top had was developed by Ford US and the engineering for it out of Melbourne, Ranger is roughly twelve months later and Everest/Amarok another twelve months after that.

 

Incorporated in all those vehicles is development of regional packages, Bronco Nth American specific for now, Ranger has so many regional variances, Everest too. Amarok is on the to do list but I think Ford NA has a greater appreciation of just how much work is involved in a true global platform....

Edited by jpd80

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Isn't VW doing most, if not all the work on the Amarok top hat since it's a VW badged truck? 

 

Also: that really didn't answer my original question. Does Ranger family encompass all of T6?

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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With regards the Mustang......do those sales figures include "rest of the world" sales? I think perhaps not......and I think that's an important aspect in keeping Mustang alive (aside the fact its one of it's iconic models). I believe you can add something like another 40-odd % to that total figure to include ALL sales.

 

That being said, whilst the news of the all-new-Mustang to be built at FRAP is good news, Ford needs to keep Mustang fresh. After 3 years ('15-'17MY) we saw a heavy refresh for the '18MY. Here we are at the start of the 3rd model following that refresh and no sign of a second refresh for the '21 model year...........and no idea on timescales for the all new car (other than it will be delivered within the 4 years of the that UAW contact). I appreciate Ford have their hands full of new models soon-to-be-released, but I hope they give Mustang another boost before that all new model.

 

 

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

The two highest profit vehicle groups in Ford are   F series and Ranger, after that it’s a toss up between Transit and Explorer. All the rest cover costs and maybe small profit.

 

Everything has and always will spin on the profit generated by F series, fields knew that but Hackett thinks he knows better

 

Mustang and Bronco are both considered iconic heritage vehicles and neither is going anywhere as Ford has just agreed to a next gen Mustang in the new UAW contract

 

a little birdie told me that if Camaro sales don’t lift, it’s toast as all the money was spent doubling down on CT4 and CT5

Stupid is as stupid does I guess, if a $35k LT1 was the rescue plan for Camaro, it’s all too late.

The mustang nameplate will live on....the car as we know i doubt continues...there is already a push to use that nameplate across a wide range of product...dealers have to be aware the only draw to get shoppers on the lot that are not looking for a truck based product would be the mustang nameplate...as it stands if you want a hatch or small based car you need not waste your time with ford...not sure thats a survivable business model in the long run....the alliance with vw is starting to make more sense

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34 minutes ago, snooter said:

the alliance with vw is starting to make more sense

 

Is it though? VW gets access to Ford commercial vans and T6 (Ranger). Ford gets access to the MEB platform that they arguably don't need after investing so much into E1 and Rivian. 

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 Ford gets access to the MEB platform that they arguably don't need after investing so much into E1 and Rivian. 

 

MEB seems to be more of a European calculus, whereas E1 and Rivian are focused here. Access to MEB also probably allows Ford to assess 'best practice' from another manufacturer with regard to what Ford did with E1.

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2 hours ago, snooter said:

The mustang nameplate will live on....the car as we know i doubt continues...there is already a push to use that nameplate across a wide range of product...dealers have to be aware the only draw to get shoppers on the lot that are not looking for a truck based product would be the mustang nameplate...as it stands if you want a hatch or small based car you need not waste your time with ford...not sure thats a survivable business model in the long run....the alliance with vw is starting to make more sense

Slow down, you're connecting a lot of dots that don't go together.

 

 

VW alliance is partnering for Europe and ROW only, Ford absolutely

refused to let VW have access to Ranger and Transit for North America.

 

What we're seeing is the evolving of "Two Fords", vehicles for North America

and vehicles for Europe/ROW., Ranger, Transit, Escape and "Fusion crossover"

will probably be the only vehicles shared between the two.

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