rmc523 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/01/ford-byd-batteries/ Chinese electric vehicle maker BYD will supply EV batteries to U.S. automaker Ford, a document on the website of the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology showed on Monday. Ford's China venture with Changan Automobile is seeking government approval to build a plug-in hybrid model equipped with BYD's batteries, according to the document. This marks BYD's first-known battery supply deal with a major global automaker. ADVERTISEMENT Shenzhen-based BYD, which is backed by U.S. investor Warren Buffett, said it would supply EV components including batteries and power management devices. The Dearborn, Michigan-based automaker said last year it planned to launch more than 30 new or significantly redesigned models in China by the end of 2021, of which over a third will be electric vehicles. Ford and BYD did not immediately respond to requests for comment. I'm assuming this is only for Chinese models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 How about Ford starting its own battery company and not relying on another country, especially China, with unstable governments. Tesla makes it's own batteries and is not supply constrained. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: How about Ford starting its own battery company and not relying on another country, especially China, with unstable governments. Tesla makes it's own batteries and is not supply constrained. Why? Because ROI would be less. And that means less money for executive bonuses and salaries and investors. The greed will never stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valve Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: How about Ford starting its own battery company and not relying on another country, especially China, with unstable governments. Tesla makes it's own batteries and is not supply constrained. Ford has already indicated that they are not interested in producing batteries for the current generation of the technology and would look to third party suppliers. The original intent was to potentially bring this in-house for the next generation (solid state) technology. The felt is was a poor investment in a limited life-span technology. I saw this about a year or so ago on an Autoline weekly segment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 46 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: How about Ford starting its own battery company and not relying on another country, especially China, with unstable governments. Tesla makes it's own batteries and is not supply constrained. Unless I'm mistaken, Tesla's batteries are made by Panasonic at Tesla's Gigafactory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 So much for bashing GM for imported "Chinese" Buicks. I love it when another sacred cow bites the dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Where are most of the minerals like lithium currently mined? And at it's cheapest to obtain? Because of that, it only makes sense to make current lithium ion batteries over there. Which is why Telsa is even making them over there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, CKNSLS said: So much for bashing GM for imported "Chinese" Buicks. I love it when another sacred cow bites the dust. Did you read the article/quote? The second sentence says this : Ford's China venture with Changan Automobile is seeking government approval to build a plug-in hybrid model equipped with BYD's batteries, according to the document. That indicates this is a deal aimed at vehicles for the Chinese market. Edited June 1, 2020 by rmc523 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 IT'S FOR CHINESE VEHICLES!! Geez, people. Read. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, akirby said: IT'S FOR CHINESE VEHICLES!! Geez, people. Read. This is a good read........ https://www.usitc.gov/publications/332/journals/the_supply_chain_for_electric_vehicle_batteries.pdf Edited June 1, 2020 by coupe3w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, coupe3w said: This is a good read........ https://www.usitc.gov/publications/332/journals/the_supply_chain_for_electric_vehicle_batteries.pdf The point being if you think these vehicles either wont be "federalized" for U.S. roads in the future-OR the basis for electric vehicles in the U.S. (especially the batteries-one of the most expensive components) you are kidding yourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) Check out how well the Los Angeles Metro Transit Agency did with their BYD buses...... https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-20180520-story.html Edited June 1, 2020 by 7Mary3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 5 hours ago, 92merc said: Where are most of the minerals like lithium currently mined? Australia has been #1 in lithium mining and production in recent years, but the largest Li reserves (over half the earth's estimated total) are in an area of South America called "Lithium Triangle". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 3 hours ago, CKNSLS said: The point being if you think these vehicles either wont be "federalized" for U.S. roads in the future-OR the basis for electric vehicles in the U.S. (especially the batteries-one of the most expensive components) you are kidding yourselves. If and when that happens we can discuss it. Until then it’s a non issue. Were they supposed to import the batteries to China? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: Australia has been #1 in lithium mining and production in recent years, but the largest Li reserves (over half the earth's estimated total) are in an area of South America called "Lithium Triangle". All of that may change, my country Australia is now being punished by China for being outspoken on an independent inquiry into what happened with the spread of the virus China smacked us with an 80% tariff on barley and is looking to cut other resources like coal but blinked with steel... maybe we should squirrel grip them and stop exporting everything including lithium....... Just kidding, we need our exports more than ever..... Edited June 2, 2020 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 A large lithium mine in Northern Nevada is about to go online: https://www.ktvn.com/story/38989830/nevada-mine-could-produce-25-percent-of-worlds-lithium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 11 hours ago, AGR said: A large lithium mine in Northern Nevada is about to go online: https://www.ktvn.com/story/38989830/nevada-mine-could-produce-25-percent-of-worlds-lithium Now that's interesting because for the past few years, current lithium mines have been over supplying the market and driving the price down which has lead to a couple of Mines being temporarily closed. If America proceeds with local supply of lithium in 2022, then that signals its intention to take lithium battery production from start to finish in house in North America, the ramifications of that are huge, most likely driving down the price of batteries much quicker than carmakers would be projecting. At the very least, it keeps all that business activity in North America. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Lithium is NOT the most expensive part of the battery. It is cobalt, which is much more scarce. Luckily, for the past 5 or 10 years, battery manufacturers have been adjusting the chemistry to lower the amount of cobalt in each battery. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, theoldwizard said: Lithium is NOT the most expensive part of the battery. It is cobalt, which is much more scarce. Luckily, for the past 5 or 10 years, battery manufacturers have been adjusting the chemistry to lower the amount of cobalt in each battery. Yes sir, thank you theoldwizard. BYD recently showed off its cobalt-free Blade Battery pack design concept. The cells use LiFePO4 chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) , The only two countries in the world that have a crap ton of cobalt are democratic republic of Congo and Australia. It's usually found in conjunction with copper and nickel mining but yes, Annode and cathode chemistry is moving away from cobalt. Edited June 4, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) I'm old, and all my driving life I have heard "...foreign oil...is bad...must not rely on foreign oil..." Now we produce all the oil we need domestically, but are jumping right in to relying on foreign batteries and foreign solar panels...trading one foreign energy dependency for another. Why was foreign oil produced by enemies bad, but foreign solar panels and batteries produced by enemies somehow OK? The ways of the world just continue to be completely irrational. Edited June 4, 2020 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 38 minutes ago, Kev-Mo said: I'm old, and all my driving life I have heard "...foreign oil...is bad...must not rely on foreign oil..." Now we produce all the oil we need domestically, but are jumping right in to relying on foreign batteries and foreign solar panels...trading one foreign energy dependency for another. Why was foreign oil produced by enemies bad, but foreign solar panels and batteries produced by enemies somehow OK? The ways of the world just continue to be completely irrational. I heard the "foreign oil is bad" stuff too. But foreign oil isn't bad because it's foreign. Same deal with foreign batteries, solar panels, cars, bananas, comic books, or any other foreign goods and services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kev-Mo said: I'm old, and all my driving life I have heard "...foreign oil...is bad...must not rely on foreign oil..." Now we produce all the oil we need domestically, but are jumping right in to relying on foreign batteries and foreign solar panels...trading one foreign energy dependency for another. Why was foreign oil produced by enemies bad, but foreign solar panels and batteries produced by enemies somehow OK? The ways of the world just continue to be completely irrational. Amazing how you can galvanise a nation by branding groups or countries as enemies. Fortunately, the US is still a democracy and there's good processes in place to ensure that trade imbalances are addressed. Edited June 4, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 hours ago, rperez817 said: I heard the "foreign oil is bad" stuff too. But foreign oil isn't bad because it's foreign. Same deal with foreign batteries, solar panels, cars, bananas, comic books, or any other foreign goods and services. It’s not that the foreign goods are bad, just that it has left us significantly less middle income factory jobs. I worked in the inner city for 12 years, where there are so many bombed out factory buildings and large empty spaces where factories used to be. The service industry never sufficiently replaced those jobs with comparable wage jobs. Not everyone is a rocket scientist justifying the expense of college. So many more people used to be able make a decent living making things here with their labor. Perhaps if we still had more manufacturing there would be more decent work opportunities for people And there wouldn’t be so many issues in the inner city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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