E Transit unveiling 11/12/20

[CKNSLS]

Mean while else where on the Internet....................

 

They are laughing at the 126 mile range.....that will be much, much less when loaded in a colder climate.

 

And calling it another "Ford mistake".

 

 

[bzcat]

I posted this before in another thread. My cousin used to work at UPS dispatch and he told me the goal for route planning is to keep the mileage under 50 miles a day. Most of their drivers do about 30~40 miles a day in the Los Angeles region. If they are driving more than that, they are wasting too much time in traffic instead of generating revenue (i.e. doing pickups and deliveries). So this gives you an idea of what the average fleet use on vans. 126 miles range is more than double what UPS use as max for route planning. This is why Amazon is so bullish on converting its vans to EVs... it makes good business sense based on the use case. 

 

Another example is USPS... their Grumman LLV and Transit/Promaster parcel vans average less than 20 miles a day in most urban and suburban zip codes. Lots of stop and go, which is perfect for EVs. It's why I think USPS should look at EV as the primary replacement option for Grumman LLV.

Edited November 12, 2020 by bzcat

[fuzzymoomoo]

49 minutes ago, bzcat said:

I posted this before in another thread. My cousin used to work at UPS dispatch and he told me the goal for route planning is to keep the mileage under 50 miles a day. Most of their drivers do about 30~40 miles a day in the Los Angeles region. If they are driving more than that, they are wasting too much time in traffic instead of generating revenue (i.e. doing pickups and deliveries). So this gives you an idea of what the average fleet use on vans. 126 miles range is more than double what UPS use as max for route planning. This is why Amazon is so bullish on converting its vans to EVs... it makes good business sense based on the use case. 

 

Another example is USPS... their Grumman LLV and Transit/Promaster parcel vans average less than 20 miles a day in most urban and suburban zip codes. Lots of stop and go, which is perfect for EVs. It's why I think USPS should look at EV as the primary replacement option for Grumman LLV.

That's the point I was (admittedly poorly) I was trying to make earlier. Ford has tons of data on how the average Transit is used, and if there's one segment they truly understand it's the needs of work fleet buyers. They know exactly what they’re doing. 

[ausrutherford]

So got to wonder if the Transit Connect and Custom are next. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, CKNSLS said:

Mean while else where on the Internet....................

 

They are laughing at the 126 mile range.....that will be much, much less when loaded in a colder climate.

 

And calling it another "Ford mistake".

They’re wrong and besides, who gives a crap?

[snooter]

I do not have much of an issue with the range but its grossly inadequate for outside city deliveries...the market is local city and thats where it is going...i will enjoy the fun show here if vw buys out ford....

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

And calling it another "Ford mistake".

 

Any effort on Ford's part to aggressively get into BEV and mobility services, as they announced today with E Transit, is not a mistake. 

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, bzcat said:

I posted this before in another thread. My cousin used to work at UPS dispatch and he told me the goal for route planning is to keep the mileage under 50 miles a day. Most of their drivers do about 30~40 miles a day in the Los Angeles region. If they are driving more than that, they are wasting too much time in traffic instead of generating revenue (i.e. doing pickups and deliveries). So this gives you an idea of what the average fleet use on vans. 126 miles range is more than double what UPS use as max for route planning. This is why Amazon is so bullish on converting its vans to EVs... it makes good business sense based on the use case. 

 

Another example is USPS... their Grumman LLV and Transit/Promaster parcel vans average less than 20 miles a day in most urban and suburban zip codes. Lots of stop and go, which is perfect for EVs. It's why I think USPS should look at EV as the primary replacement option for Grumman LLV.

this is exactly the market they’re targeting with this.   I’m sure down the road they’ll have longer range models, but initially this is exactly what they’re going for.

[Harley Lover]

10 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

Mean while else where on the Internet....................

 

They are laughing at the 126 mile range.....that will be much, much less when loaded in a colder climate.

 

And calling it another "Ford mistake".

 

There are times when you make a good point. There are other times when you don't. This is the latter. 

 

Who should we believe: the LEADER in commercial truck sales who have shared their research findings that drove their decision on the battery size -or - random internet know-nothings who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground? Hmmm, not a tough call, is it?

 

And oh, by the way, Ford have already stated that this is not the only version on the E Transit, there are more (range) to come.l

[Harley Lover]

10 hours ago, bzcat said:

It's why I think USPS should look at EV as the primary replacement option for Grumman LLV.

 

You're 100% right, but USPS is the poster child for an organization that is penny wise and pound foolish - they will make the purchase decision based on lowest acquisition cost, and call it a day. 

[twintornados]

11 hours ago, bzcat said:

Another example is USPS... their Grumman LLV and Transit/Promaster parcel vans average less than 20 miles a day in most urban and suburban zip codes. Lots of stop and go, which is perfect for EVs. It's why I think USPS should look at EV as the primary replacement option for Grumman LLV.

 

If someone could produce an EV chassis that would fit under the Grumman LLV's aluminum body (original chassis is the Chevrolet S-10) AND make it affordable (i.e. battery range equals $$$, so 75 mile range should be max) it would be a surefire hit to retrofit a lot those LLV's as an EV. Nimble, lightweight and those aluminum bodies last forever!! The ones used in a more rural setting? Refit with the new 3 cyl Ford 1.0L Ecoboost. Fleet would be updated for years to come.

[rmc523]

2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

You're 100% right, but USPS is the poster child for an organization that is penny wise and pound foolish - they will make the purchase decision based on lowest acquisition cost, and call it a day. 

 

What ever happened to the replacement for that thing?   We’ve seen several testing units but nothing since.

 

1 hour ago, twintornados said:

 

If someone could produce an EV chassis that would fit under the Grumman LLV's aluminum body (original chassis is the Chevrolet S-10) AND make it affordable (i.e. battery range equals $$$, so 75 mile range should be max) it would be a surefire hit to retrofit a lot those LLV's as an EV. Nimble, lightweight and those aluminum bodies last forever!! The ones used in a more rural setting? Refit with the new 3 cyl Ford 1.0L Ecoboost. Fleet would be updated for years to come.

USPS was looking for larger vans/vehicles to better accommodate increased package deliveries.

[twintornados]

2 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

USPS was looking for larger vans/vehicles to better accommodate increased package deliveries.

 

I remember...nothing seemed to "take off" per se with the exception of Pro Master RAM vans...I see a lot of them in my area but still, the Grumman LLV is the ubiquitous Postal delivery vehicle, handling a good percentage of daily mail needs. Seems like it would be obvious to refit them in stages for low cost acquisition over the course of several years....Bolinger, Rivian, et al can get into the market by offering a complete refit job for a low per vehicle price.

[ice-capades]

1 hour ago, twintornados said:

 

I remember...nothing seemed to "take off" per se with the exception of Pro Master RAM vans...I see a lot of them in my area but still, the Grumman LLV is the ubiquitous Postal delivery vehicle, handling a good percentage of daily mail needs. Seems like it would be obvious to refit them in stages for low cost acquisition over the course of several years....Bolinger, Rivian, et al can get into the market by offering a complete refit job for a low per vehicle price.

 

USPS added a lot of the Pro Master RAM vans to the fleet here in CT in the past couple of years. 

[rmc523]

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

I remember...nothing seemed to "take off" per se with the exception of Pro Master RAM vans...I see a lot of them in my area but still, the Grumman LLV is the ubiquitous Postal delivery vehicle, handling a good percentage of daily mail needs. Seems like it would be obvious to refit them in stages for low cost acquisition over the course of several years....Bolinger, Rivian, et al can get into the market by offering a complete refit job for a low per vehicle price.

no not that - there’s been some sort of competition between a bunch of different companies for the Grumman replacement - Ford has an entrant too but obviously they’ve not chosen anything yet.

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

 

USPS added a lot of the Pro Master RAM vans to the fleet here in CT in the past couple of years. 

and That will become an issue...I have several LARGE companies dead set on replacing all their Rams with Transits due to issues such as blown engines at 2 years..and constant issues...along with long waits for parts regarding servicing. Classic case of attempting to save initial cost and paying a lot more for it in the long run.

[twintornados]

39 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Ford has an entrant too but obviously they’ve not chosen anything yet.

 

Yes, imagine the Transit modified with partner Oshkosh and now available as an EV. Should give it the edge needed to become the next Postal delivery vehicle. Same basic vehicle but can be had in EV mode for urban delivery cycles as well as ICE power for rural delivery vehicles.

[bzcat]

 

 

 

16 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

So got to wonder if the Transit Connect and Custom are next. 

 

I'm sure Transit Custom EV will be offered in Europe. The chassis is the same for Transit and Transit Custom so whatever modification they made to Transit, they can slap the smaller Custom body on it too. Although Transit Custom is FWD but the EV will be RWD... probably doesn't matter.

 

Transit Connect is a C1 vehicle so Ford is not going to invest money in it to make it EV, and there is no sign of C2 Transit Connect. We'll have to see how the Ford-VW van alliance develops. VW Caddy is brand new and sits on MQB architectural which is also not EV friendly.

[lfeg]

Speaking from the user side. When I was working, our warehouse vans (E150s and E350s) often went less than 30 miles a day, and when they did it was 70 miles or less a day. And they were parked inside each night. The E Transit would be perfect. And why large fuel tanks were needed?  - None of the drivers ever wanted to "waste their time" stopping to fill up until it was running on fumes. Charging overnight eliminates that hassle.

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

and That will become an issue...I have several LARGE companies dead set on replacing all their Rams with Transits due to issues such as blown engines at 2 years..and constant issues...along with long waits for parts regarding servicing. Classic case of attempting to save initial cost and paying a lot more for it in the long run.

The flex coupling recall hasn't scared them off? That's good news. 

[rperez817]

10 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

You're 100% right, but USPS is the poster child for an organization that is penny wise and pound foolish - they will make the purchase decision based on lowest acquisition cost, and call it a day. 

 

That's what most government fleet procurement people do, it's not only USPS. Some of my friends who work at GSA say that agency of the U.S. federal government browbeats automakers into practically giving away cars and trucks especially on the large orders.

[CKNSLS]

12 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

There are times when you make a good point. There are other times when you don't. This is the latter. 

 

Who should we believe: the LEADER in commercial truck sales who have shared their research findings that drove their decision on the battery size -or - random internet know-nothings who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground? Hmmm, not a tough call, is it?

 

And oh, by the way, Ford have already stated that this is not the only version on the E Transit, there are more (range) to come.l

OK-we shall see. It will be all in the sales numbers. As far as opinions-this is the Internet-they flow freely as water. You have to remember-all auto makers have gotten things wrong-despite market research and experience. I do however agree with one of the points being made elsewhere, In cold climates with a full load the vehicles range will be abysmal.

Edited November 13, 2020 by CKNSLS

[snooter]

Probably no more than a 15 mile radius for deliveries...they want gas vehicles gone and then they will regulate the ever luvin hell out of the power suppliers or they simply will be tax payer owned.....yea it should work out well....

[Harley Lover]

For those concerned about the Transit's range, here's what Mercedes is doing with its E Sprinter in Europe:

https://www.autonews.com/retail/why-esprinter-not-coming-us-market

 

Quote

Mercedes has been selling the all-electric eSprinter delivery van for about six months in Europe.

Interest from logistics providers is strong. At the end of August, Mercedes booked a major order from Amazon for some 1,800 electric vans.

The eSprinter only has a range of 170 kilometers — or 106 miles.

Mercedes has decided not to offer the eSprinter in the U.S. because safety specifications and other performance requirements cannot be sufficiently met. "The components for the electric drive system do not meet Daimler's internal standards for crash tests that go beyond legal requirements," a source told Germany's Automobilwoche, a sibling publication of Automotive News.

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Harley Lover

[silvrsvt]

So going back about cold weather impact of range...

 

From what I understand, this is a two sided thing-one is to keep the battery at a temp that its performance isn't impacted and the other is HVAC usage.

 

With that said, couldn't that stuff be maintained overnight while its plugged in (i.e. use the grid power to keep temp at set specifics) to lessen its impact?

 

Just as an example, keep the cabin at 50-60 degrees then warm it up to 70 or so when its in use, plus keep the batteries warm, so they aren't drawn down as much during use during the day?

 

I'm also assuming the impact gets worst the colder it is-if your below freezing all day its a problem,. but if it warms up to 40 or during the day, its not as bad?