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11 hours ago, T-dubz said:

What kind of numbers do the other brands do in fleet? I’d have to imagine Toyota or any other brands fleet sales went down just as much as ford’s right? 

 

I don't have the stats for Q1 2021, sorry T-dubz sir. Prior to the Covid 19 pandemic, Toyota's fleet sales percentage was usually in the 12 - 15% range for passenger cars and light trucks. Ford's fleet percentage for those vehicle types (excluding heavy trucks and commercial vans such as Transit, Transit Connect, and E-Series) was usually twice that. So Ford had a lot more fleet sales to lose after the pandemic decimated the fleet market for passenger cars and light trucks with no major recovery on the horizon.

 

One interesting tidbit in the Ford Q1 sales numbers. Sales of Ford "Heavy trucks", which are almost all sold to fleets, more than doubled in Q1 2021 compared to Q1 2020. This is because of the V shaped rebound in that market since March 2020. Here is a graph for Class 8 trucks, but the same trends should apply to Classes 3-7 where Ford does business.

100520_Class_8_demand_to_2023.5f7b2bf5a2

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

I don't have the stats for Q1 2021, sorry T-dubz sir. Prior to the Covid 19 pandemic, Toyota's fleet sales percentage was usually in the 12 - 15% range for passenger cars and light trucks. Ford's fleet percentage for those vehicle types (excluding heavy trucks and commercial vans such as Transit, Transit Connect, and E-Series) was usually twice that. So Ford had a lot more fleet sales to lose after the pandemic decimated the fleet market for passenger cars and light trucks with no major recovery on the horizon.

 

One interesting tidbit in the Ford Q1 sales numbers. Sales of Ford "Heavy trucks", which are almost all sold to fleets, more than doubled in Q1 2021 compared to Q1 2020. This is because of the V shaped rebound in that market since March 2020. Here is a graph for Class 8 trucks, but the same trends should apply to Classes 3-7 where Ford does business.

100520_Class_8_demand_to_2023.5f7b2bf5a2

 

 

 

 

Another thing I thought of with Heavy Trucks, is that the new F-600 may be included there, which could also cause a jump.

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49 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

For those interested, I started putting together a quarterly trucks comparison of the major players in the different segments, as well as totals per manufacturer at the bottom.

 

For midsize, Ranger is hanging in there around Colorado levels, and GM pulls ahead when adding Canyon volume.  Tacoma outsells all individually.

 

F-series continues to have a big lead over the competition, even when adding Silverado and Sierra (they nudged out the combined win last year with F-150 switchovers).  Ram jumped out to a 24k lead over Silverado, and numerically Ram's growth almost directly equaled Silverado's decline.

 

Heavy Trucks, good to see Ford's sales increasing, we'll see if they maintain that.  Chevy's MD looks like impressive numbers given it's still new.

 

Threw Maverick in there because it's easier to have it built into the chart when I first build it rather than moving things later on.

 

image.thumb.png.bbeabd7c87fbbb05708a47674d038750.png

 

 

 

RMC-

Thx for these numbers-first time I  have seen any Silverado MD numbers.  Wonder what the corresponding International numbers are given they are the same trucks.  I still see very few either (Chevy or International) MD's on the road  around here.   As for Ford I think double the volume vs same qtr. 2020 is a very  good gain given fact Avon Lake was down for how many weeks? 

 

Refresh my memory-these stats  are deliveries to dealers, not customer sales (registrations).

 

As for the concerns many have over lost volumes compared to  'yota, Honda etc. what did we expect?  Stop building cars and it is not realistic to think every lost car sale will translate into a truck/suv sale.  I believe  AK or someone else alluded to fact the profitability number would gain, not the vehicle head count.  Time will tell.

 

One thing I think is  troubling is the Ranger number vs the Taco..  If the old Taco continues to beat Ranger by a significant number, just wait till the new one comes out with a new taller cab.  To me, as I have  mentioned before, at least as far as the "seniors" go on this site, we grew up in Ford, Mopar, or GM families.  Today how many young buyers can say that?  The Toyota, Honda, Subaru loyalty factor I think is there.  Together with the sense that their quality is superior.   

 

The Toyota sales pitch...."The  highest quality new vehicles make the best quality used vehicles"-or words  to  that effect, speaks volumes IMO.

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4 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

One thing I think is  troubling is the Ranger number vs the Taco..  If the old Taco continues to beat Ranger by a significant number, just wait till the new one comes out with a new taller cab.  To me, as I have  mentioned before, at least as far as the "seniors" go on this site, we grew up in Ford, Mopar, or GM families.  Today how many young buyers can say that?  The Toyota, Honda, Subaru loyalty factor I think is there.  Together with the sense that their quality is superior.   

 

The Toyota sales pitch...."The  highest quality new vehicles make the best quality used vehicles"-or words  to  that effect, speaks volumes IMO.


it will take time to take sales away from the Tacoma. It was the only small truck around for years which helped it build up a following. It also still looks pretty good even being as old as it is. I think it has that aggressive look truck buyers want, whereas the ranger is much more subdued. I’d guess the new ranger will take some sales away from the Tacoma in 2023, especially with the raptor and tremor packages.

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29 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

RMC-

Thx for these numbers-first time I  have seen any Silverado MD numbers.  Wonder what the corresponding International numbers are given they are the same trucks.  I still see very few either (Chevy or International) MD's on the road  around here.   As for Ford I think double the volume vs same qtr. 2020 is a very  good gain given fact Avon Lake was down for how many weeks? 

 

Refresh my memory-these stats  are deliveries to dealers, not customer sales (registrations).

 

As for the concerns many have over lost volumes compared to  'yota, Honda etc. what did we expect?  Stop building cars and it is not realistic to think every lost car sale will translate into a truck/suv sale.  I believe  AK or someone else alluded to fact the profitability number would gain, not the vehicle head count.  Time will tell.

 

One thing I think is  troubling is the Ranger number vs the Taco..  If the old Taco continues to beat Ranger by a significant number, just wait till the new one comes out with a new taller cab.  To me, as I have  mentioned before, at least as far as the "seniors" go on this site, we grew up in Ford, Mopar, or GM families.  Today how many young buyers can say that?  The Toyota, Honda, Subaru loyalty factor I think is there.  Together with the sense that their quality is superior.   

 

The Toyota sales pitch...."The  highest quality new vehicles make the best quality used vehicles"-or words  to  that effect, speaks volumes IMO.

 

Yeah, they just recently started breaking Silverado numbers down into LD, HD, and MD.

 

I can't answer that question, as I don't know - its whatever numbers Ford provides.

 

Agreed on the loss of cars affecting things.  The concern though is that other manufacturers have seen their crossover sales jump a lot higher than Ford's, plus (declining) car sales on top of that.  I get the increased profitability argument, but Ford does seem to shrink more and more every few years.  Hopefully the new products coming online will help swing things back in Ford's favor.

 

Tacoma has a built-in following because it's been the only consistent product on the market in that segment for the last few decades.  Colorado/Canyon were on again off again, Ranger was long in the tooth and then gone and only came back what 2 years ago, and is already in the ballpark of Tacoma, with a stop-gap product.  I'm sure when the new "full-effort" one comes out, we'll see numbers jump.

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42 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, they just recently started breaking Silverado numbers down into LD, HD, and MD.

 

I can't answer that question, as I don't know - its whatever numbers Ford provides.

 

Agreed on the loss of cars affecting things.  The concern though is that other manufacturers have seen their crossover sales jump a lot higher than Ford's, plus (declining) car sales on top of that.  I get the increased profitability argument, but Ford does seem to shrink more and more every few years.  Hopefully the new products coming online will help swing things back in Ford's favor.

 

Tacoma has a built-in following because it's been the only consistent product on the market in that segment for the last few decades.  Colorado/Canyon were on again off again, Ranger was long in the tooth and then gone and only came back what 2 years ago, and is already in the ballpark of Tacoma, with a stop-gap product.  I'm sure when the new "full-effort" one comes out, we'll see numbers jump.

 

It seems like the Ranger is starting to gain some grudging respect with its superior powertrain and towing capabilities. The new Tremor doesn't hurt much either. Also the quality and reliability of the Ranger is getting noticed. The latest reviews only seem to be more positive. So I would think Ranger sales could still get better if Ford gets the new one out in timely fashion with another engine option and a hybrid.

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14 hours ago, T-dubz said:

What kind of numbers do the other brands do in fleet? I’d have to imagine Toyota or any other brands fleet sales went down just as much as ford’s right? 

 

I'd have to think that the biggest fleet deliveries are from Ford and Chevrolet with some GMC units, especially when it comes to sales to government agency accounts. And sales of Police units are dominated by Ford. Sales to commercial and/or rental fleets collapsed in the past year so that's primarily where the foreign brands got hurt the most. 

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22 hours ago, akirby said:

 

The new one is softer and splits the market with Bronco Sport.  A lot of people have said they don't like the new styling but love the Bronco Sport styling.   Also fleet sales are way down.  So there are plenty of reasons why Escape alone may not match the old Escape numbers but Escape plus Bronco Sport should outsell the old Escape and at a much higher profit level.

 

I may be in the minority based on all the discussions and comments since the latest Escape was introduced but I actually find the exterior to be a good evolution for the Escape. It's very clean, refined in my opinion and has a Porsche influence in the rear. I won't dispute the negative reviews about the interior quality but really haven't looked at the interior that closely. 

 

I think that the biggest factor in the Escape sales numbers is the production mix with not enough 2.0L's and especially Hybrid availability. 

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29 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

I may be in the minority based on all the discussions and comments since the latest Escape was introduced but I actually find the exterior to be a good evolution for the Escape. It's very clean, refined in my opinion and has a Porsche influence in the rear. I won't dispute the negative reviews about the interior quality but really haven't looked at the interior that closely. 

 

I think that the biggest factor in the Escape sales numbers is the production mix with not enough 2.0L's and especially Hybrid availability. 

 

Looks wise, the new Escape is most often compared to the Macan and the CX5. So it is ironic that most negative comments seem to be about its looks. Most don't comment about the ugliness of the Macan and CX5.  Like most vehicles, the Escape has to be optioned right to bring out its best looks. Most vehicles look nondescript in base trim and boring color and wheels. 

 

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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Looks wise, the new Escape is most often compared to the Macan and the CX5. So it is ironic that most negative comments seem to be about its looks. Most don't comment about the ugliness of the Macan and CX5.  Like most vehicles, the Escape has to be optioned right to bring out its best looks. Most vehicles look nondescript in base trim and boring color and wheels. 

 

The Macan has some large vents (or whatever they are) on the side of the grille which gives it a sporty look. It also doesn’t look like it’s smiling at you. I think the escapes body is fine, just a tweak on the front would do wonders.

licensed-image?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhy99FqvLgk7t

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5 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Tacoma has a built-in following because it's been the only consistent product on the market in that segment for the last few decades.  Colorado/Canyon were on again off again, Ranger was long in the tooth and then gone and only came back what 2 years ago, and is already in the ballpark of Tacoma, with a stop-gap product.  I'm sure when the new "full-effort" one comes out, we'll see numbers jump.

Toyota is supposed to be coming out with an all new Tacoma within a year, so Ranger won’t be competing against an old design from Toyota when the NG model arrives. Fuzzy has hinted that the next Ranger will be impressive, which is encouraging. 

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6 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, they just recently started breaking Silverado numbers down into LD, HD, and MD.

 

I can't answer that question, as I don't know - its whatever numbers Ford provides.

 

Agreed on the loss of cars affecting things.  The concern though is that other manufacturers have seen their crossover sales jump a lot higher than Ford's, plus (declining) car sales on top of that.  I get the increased profitability argument, but Ford does seem to shrink more and more every few years.  Hopefully the new products coming online will help swing things back in Ford's favor.

 

Tacoma has a built-in following because it's been the only consistent product on the market in that segment for the last few decades.  Colorado/Canyon were on again off again, Ranger was long in the tooth and then gone and only came back what 2 years ago, and is already in the ballpark of Tacoma, with a stop-gap product.  I'm sure when the new "full-effort" one comes out, we'll see numbers jump.

 

Chevy starting breaking them apart with the LH and HD diverged.

 

The LH and HD no longer share bodies. 

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7 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

RMC-

Thx for these numbers-first time I  have seen any Silverado MD numbers.  Wonder what the corresponding International numbers are given they are the same trucks.  I still see very few either (Chevy or International) MD's on the road  around here.   As for Ford I think double the volume vs same qtr. 2020 is a very  good gain given fact Avon Lake was down for how many weeks? 

 

Refresh my memory-these stats  are deliveries to dealers, not customer sales (registrations).

 

As for the concerns many have over lost volumes compared to  'yota, Honda etc. what did we expect?  Stop building cars and it is not realistic to think every lost car sale will translate into a truck/suv sale.  I believe  AK or someone else alluded to fact the profitability number would gain, not the vehicle head count.  Time will tell.

 

One thing I think is  troubling is the Ranger number vs the Taco..  If the old Taco continues to beat Ranger by a significant number, just wait till the new one comes out with a new taller cab.  To me, as I have  mentioned before, at least as far as the "seniors" go on this site, we grew up in Ford, Mopar, or GM families.  Today how many young buyers can say that?  The Toyota, Honda, Subaru loyalty factor I think is there.  Together with the sense that their quality is superior.   

 

The Toyota sales pitch...."The  highest quality new vehicles make the best quality used vehicles"-or words  to  that effect, speaks volumes IMO.

The big question for Ford is what is it about Tacoma that makes it so much more popular for buyers than Ranger and Colorado?

 The answer could be as simple as the Tundra being such a poor seller exactly because so many Toyota truck buyers prefer Tacoma.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, they just recently started breaking Silverado numbers down into LD, HD, and MD.

 

I can't answer that question, as I don't know - its whatever numbers Ford provides.

 

Agreed on the loss of cars affecting things.  The concern though is that other manufacturers have seen their crossover sales jump a lot higher than Ford's, plus (declining) car sales on top of that.  I get the increased profitability argument, but Ford does seem to shrink more and more every few years.  Hopefully the new products coming online will help swing things back in Ford's favor.

 

Tacoma has a built-in following because it's been the only consistent product on the market in that segment for the last few decades.  Colorado/Canyon were on again off again, Ranger was long in the tooth and then gone and only came back what 2 years ago, and is already in the ballpark of Tacoma, with a stop-gap product.  I'm sure when the new "full-effort" one comes out, we'll see numbers jump.

Toyota would kill to have Ford’s Truck sales, 84k F Series and 11k Ranger sales last month versus 26k Tacoma, 7k Tundra is not that impressive 

 

with regards F150 buyers Ram our of F Series sales figures, I’ve watched production over the years and Ford und that the sales mix aligns roughly to that in a he proportion 2 to 1, like the plants that make them. So an 84k month splits roughly to 56k F150 and 28k Super Duty.

Edited by jpd80

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59 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The big question for Ford is what is it about Tacoma that makes it so much more popular for buyers than Ranger and Colorado?


Same reason Camry and Corolla were #1.  Brand loyalty.

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19 minutes ago, akirby said:


Same reason Camry and Corolla were #1.  Brand loyalty.

And as I said-if they sell as well as they do now with an old product, what will their numbers be when a "good  Ol' Boy" can wear his cowboy hat while he is driving😎

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22 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

And as I said-if they sell as well as they do now with an old product, what will their numbers be when a "good  Ol' Boy" can wear his cowboy hat while he is driving😎


Honestly I don’t think it matters much.  Might convince a few existing buyers to upgrade sooner but I don’t see it taking market share from Ranger and Canyorado.

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17 minutes ago, akirby said:


Honestly I don’t think it matters much.  Might convince a few existing buyers to upgrade sooner but I don’t see it taking market share from Ranger and Canyorado.

Correct, the whole reason a well aged Tacoma continues to sell well is because 

upgrading it is not a major issue to those loyal buyers.....not at the moment anyway.

 

I still feel there’s an interaction between Tacoma’s success and Tundras lack of it,

that loyalty for Tacoma does not extend to the Tundra.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:


Same reason Camry and Corolla were #1.  Brand loyalty.

Not going to argue against that...other reason is there crap (yota) is worth nearly as much when purchased new....ford cannot help but drown in comparison to depriciation between the brands

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I may be in the minority based on all the discussions and comments since the latest Escape was introduced but I actually find the exterior to be a good evolution for the Escape. It's very clean, refined in my opinion and has a Porsche influence in the rear. I won't dispute the negative reviews about the interior quality but really haven't looked at the interior that closely. 

 

I think that the biggest factor in the Escape sales numbers is the production mix with not enough 2.0L's and especially Hybrid availability. 

Good call and just to echo the point, I too think that fords product mix is a little off, hybrids and 2.0 EBs should be the priority over the 1.5 EB but with that, Ford was stuck with quite a bit of 2020 stock to shift.

Edited by jpd80

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3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Toyota would kill to have Ford’s Truck sales, 84k F Series and 11k Ranger sales last month versus 26k Tacoma, 7k Tundra is not that impressive 

 

with regards F150 buyers Ram our of F Series sales figures, I’ve watched production over the years and Ford und that the sales mix aligns roughly to that in a he proportion 2 to 1, like the plants that make them. So an 84k month splits roughly to 56k F150 and 28k Super Duty.

 

Oh sure.  Tundra's numbers were so low, I didn't even bother including them on the truck chart for full sizers.

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12 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Oh sure.  Tundra's numbers were so low, I didn't even bother including them on the truck chart for full sizers.

Toyota had such high hopes for Tundra but as we’ve mentioned before,

being behind the other great truck brands, it kinda lives in the shadows

and doesn’t attract many buyers.

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3 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Toyota had such high hopes for Tundra but as we’ve mentioned before,

being behind the other great truck brands, it kinda lives in the shadows

and doesn’t attract many buyers.

 

Oh yeah, building that huge factory for it.  They're (finally) about to come out with a new one - I imagine it'll be like Titan in the sense of sales might jump a bit, but jump is relative to the small amount they already are.  A jump for them is monthly variation for the big 3 players.

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2 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Oh yeah, building that huge factory for it.  They're (finally) about to come out with a new one - I imagine it'll be like Titan in the sense of sales might jump a bit, but jump is relative to the small amount they already are.  A jump for them is monthly variation for the big 3 players.

It’s the same situation that Ranger and Colorado are in with Tacoma’s strong sales.

no matter what they do, Tacoma’s following and sales numbers will be unmoved....

A new Tundra might be great but getting more than token interest might be hard.

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9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Correct, the whole reason a well aged Tacoma continues to sell well is because 

upgrading it is not a major issue to those loyal buyers.....not at the moment anyway.

 

I still feel there’s an interaction between Tacoma’s success and Tundras lack of it,

that loyalty for Tacoma does not extend to the Tundra.


It doesn't help they put almost no marketing into Tundra. 

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