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All Electric Ford F-150 Lightning to be revealed on May 19 at 930 pm ET

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From someone at GMI, the guy in this video talked to a Ford rep, who said that the EPA/range rating was made with 1000 lbs. of cargo factored in.  If that's true, that means the range is actually further than quoted.

 

 

 

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Interesting tidbit in this video, apparently the range on the Lightening is measured with 1000Lbs of cargo. He said the truck he was looking at had about 80% charge and estimated the range at about 350 miles without that cargo, and would put the range from 100% at around 460 miles. If true that's a huge deal!

Edit: He wasn't guessing about that, a Ford rep told him the EPA rating was figured with the 1000lbs.

 

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Posted (edited)

EPA rating is always calculated using "typical load" and that means for pickup trucks, EPA always assumes there is cargo in the bed (same with vans). Additionally, EPA cycle has many high speed operation and repeated acceleration while WLTP for example, have much more low speed operation and less acceleration. The EPA cycle tries to mimic typical suburban use and was designed to return good numbers on ICE vehicles. But it tends to underestimate EVs.

 

Another thing to remember on EPA rating is that EPA made it really easy to goose up the range number because there is a multiplier car companies can use to reverse calculate from eMPG. But everyone have been very conservative, except for you can guess who...

 

So unlike NEDC or WLTP, which tends to be optimistic, EPA range estimate on EV is generally pessimistic. Empirical evidence from data sources online and impartial but uncontrolled testing by websites and magazines generally show that EVs from all brands exceeds their EPA range except for Tesla, which ALWAYS falls short anywhere between 10 to 20% of EPA range. 

Edited by bzcat

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My dad was looking at one and he said that the biggest obstacle for him would be having to upgrade the power utility of electrical grid at the home to accommodate the 80kw of charge needed for the F150.

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8 hours ago, LookingToBuyAFord said:

My dad was looking at one and he said that the biggest obstacle for him would be having to upgrade the power utility of electrical grid at the home to accommodate the 80kw of charge needed for the F150.

You don't "need" the 80kW charger.  You can use the standard level 2 that plugs into a NEMA 14-50 240V outlet or use the level 1 that plugs into a regular 120V outlet.  The 80kW power unit though allows you to back feed power into the home during power outages and includes the auto changeover required by code for that capability.  It requires a professional installation.

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This truck definitely has my interest for my lawn care company, but still not sure I trust a half ton (especially with IRS) to be on constant towing duty. Current using a '10 6.4 F250 to tow a 28ft enclosed trailer full of lawn mowers. It's getting up there in mileage and the fuel mileage is abysmal. We're under 200 miles a week so one charge on the lightning would probably be good for the week (or close to it). Maybe I'll wait for the super duty version ...

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On 5/20/2021 at 12:37 PM, bzcat said:

BTW, I think it is very reasonable to limit any new EV subsidy to vehicles and/or battery packs produced in the US only. We don't need to subsidize Chinese battery or German labor. If Ford wants to take advantage of the credit, bring the midsize EV back to Ohio... fair and square. 

 

On Friday, September 10, Democratic legislators in the U.S. Congress proposed expansions to EV tax credits. U.S. Democrats propose dramatic expansion of EV tax credits that favors Big Three (cnbc.com)

 

Highlights.

  • Removal of the 200,000 vehicle limit for tax credit on new EV purchases. This would make Tesla and GM eligible again.
  • $12,500 tax credit for new EV purchases, when assembled at U.S. plants by union labor. F-150 Lightning should benefit from this.
  • $2,500 tax credit for used EV purchases.
Edited by rperez817

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37 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

On Friday, September 10, Democratic legislators in the U.S. Congress proposed expansions to EV tax credits. U.S. Democrats propose dramatic expansion of EV tax credits that favors Big Three (cnbc.com)

 

Highlights.

  • Removal of the 200,000 vehicle limit for tax credit on new EV purchases. This would make Tesla and GM eligible again.
  • $12,500 tax credit for new EV purchases, when assembled at U.S. plants by union labor. F-150 Lightning should benefit from this.
  • $2,500 tax credit for used EV purchases.

 

It's one thing to increase subsidies to encourage BEV vehicle sales. It's another to make any incentives conditional on being assembled by union labor at U.S. plants. The government has no business in blatantly making union labor an incentive condition or the Democrats using it as an attempt to buy votes. 

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2 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

It's one thing to increase subsidies to encourage BEV vehicle sales. It's another to make any incentives conditional on being assembled by union labor at U.S. plants. The government has no business in blatantly making union labor an incentive condition or the Democrats using it as an attempt to buy votes. 

 

Then that eliminates everyone except GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Is the VW plant union? Right now, only the Bolt would qualify and production is suspended because of battery fires. The future Transit EV and Lightning would qualify. 

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5 hours ago, 92merc said:

I'm guessing Tesla isn't unionized?

 

You are correct 92merc sir for the Tesla Fremont factory in California. Labor force there is currently non-union.

 

4 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Then that eliminates everyone except GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Is the VW plant union? Right now, only the Bolt would qualify and production is suspended because of battery fires. The future Transit EV and Lightning would qualify. 

 

Yes sir FordBuyer. Since none of Stellantis' union represented vehicle assembly plants in the U.S. currently assemble or have plans in the next 6 months to assemble EV, the big beneficiaries of the proposed $12,500 tax credit are General Motors and Ford. In addition to GM's Orion Assembly plant for Bolt and Bolt EUV, EV assembled at these unionized plants should also qualify.

  • GM Factory Zero (Hummer EV, Escalade EV, Silverado EV, Cruise Origin)
  • GM Spring Hill Assembly (Lyriq)
  • Ford Rouge Electric Vehicle Center (F-150 Lightning)
  • Ford Kansas City Assembly (E-Transit)
Edited by rperez817

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15 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Then that eliminates everyone except GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Is the VW plant union? Right now, only the Bolt would qualify and production is suspended because of battery fires. The future Transit EV and Lightning would qualify. 

No. The irony is that VW's German union tried to force the automaker's U.S. plants to unionize under the UAW (in Germany, unions have automatic Board seats) because they were concerned that being non-unionized gave U.S. plants a competitive advantage against German plants. To placate their German unions, VW management negotiated a representation deal with the UAW but forgot one thing. They still had to win a representation vote with their workers. As it turned out, their U.S. workers rejected UAW representation in the vote. The workers were happy with how they were treated by VW management, liked the fact that their plants may have a competitive advantage over German plants, and didn't see a reason to have to start paying union dues.

Edited by Gurgeh

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From FoxBusiness.com

 

Honda, Toyota reject Democrat's pro-union electric car subsidy plan. Honda says it should 'treat all EV's made by U.S. autoworkers fairly and equally'

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/honda-toyota-reject-democrats-pro-union-electric-car-subsidy

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1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

From FoxBusiness.com

 

Honda, Toyota reject Democrat's pro-union electric car subsidy plan. Honda says it should 'treat all EV's made by U.S. autoworkers fairly and equally'

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/honda-toyota-reject-democrats-pro-union-electric-car-subsidy

 

If you really want to get to zero emissions sometime in the next 20 years, then Toyota, Honda, and the Germans and Koreans need to be included. Without them and their production capacity, no way. 

 

Consider the Bolt with many owners wanting GM to buy them back, and no fix in sight. What a nightmare. Tesla models have had trouble too with battery fires. 

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While I like the fact that F-150 Lightning qualifies for the extra $5000 tax credit in the Democrats' proposal, ice-capades, akirby, and FordBuyer make good points about this proposal becoming a political controversy and slowing down the transition to 100% electric vehicles in the USA. That would be bad news for sure.

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Alex on Autos posted his excellent F-150 Lightning overview video today. 

 

 

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https://www.autoblog.com/2021/09/16/ford-f-150-lightning-pre-production-begins/

 

Quote

Ford announced today that the F-150 Lightning electric pickup truck is officially in the pre-production stage of development. The first pre-production trucks are leaving the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center now, and fully-baked production trucks are currently scheduled to be delivered to customers next spring.

In combination with this announcement, Ford is also announcing additional investment in three Michigan facilities to increase its production capacity of the F-150 Lightning. As of today, Ford says it has “over 150,000 reservations” for the Lightning. In total, Ford says it’s going to add 450 new jobs with a $250 million investment. The jobs will be at the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center, Van Dyke Electric Powertrain Center and Rawsonville Components Plant. Ford says this added firepower will allow it to produce 80,000 trucks per year. Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and U.S. Rep. Debbie Dingell attended Ford’s event today.

 

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