Ford CEO Jim Farley Indirectly Says Ford Escape Facing Cancellation

[akirby]

27 minutes ago, The Handler said:

It didn’t help being the first to launch. I actually heard people around town saying they saw the new Bronco and how disappointed they were by it. 

But it hasn’t hurt sales.  I think the Sport crowd likes calling them Broncos.  It certainly adds to the emotional appeal and makes them a little more appealing even with the name confusion.

[rmc523]

18 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Maybe... Explorer Sport was just my suggestion. I don't actually know what Ford is planning.

 

I've become really attached to Cucumber in the last 3 days. It's a great name!

sure.  I’m just speculating where they could go if that was the plan.

[2005Explorer]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Nobody here has ever said that.  And we weren’t talking about entry level models we were talking about entry level vehicles to bring in new customers.  I assume you’re thinking if someone buys a cheap Yaris that makes them a Toyotaphile for life.  I think it’s just the opposite - people who buy cheap vehicles have no loyalty - they’ll buy whatever is cheaper next time.  Within a particular model, lower end versions boost sales and because they’re just decontented versions of the same vehicle they’re very profitable as opposed to a completely different vehicle.

 

Even so Maverick and Bronco Sport have the lower end covered nicely and because they aren’t commodities they should have decent profit margins.  I expect the same for BEVs.

I think you'd be surprised how many new younger customers the Bronco Sport, Maverick and especially Maverick Hybrid are bringing into Ford dealerships. As they push into BEVs this is the group of customers you want coming back to your brand. Ford is a brand that pretty much lives on brand loyalty because to be honest you can get more for less with other brands. If you are selling a brand like Apple sells a brand you need a range of products that appeal to different income levels, age groups and lifestyles.

 

I'd like to see Ford expand their product portfolio a bit in that Bronco Sport and Maverick market. Since the Escape is facing cancelation according to the CEO it opens up a spot for a more attractive offering in that compact market. My guess is it will be a BEV vehicle, but offering a Hybrid in that market would be smart as well. I guess Bronco Sport could become a standard Hybrid like the Maverick then the Escape can be canceled.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said:

 Ford is a brand that pretty much lives on brand loyalty because to be honest you can get more for less with other brands.

Hogwash.  Ford gets tons of conquests because they have great products and features that others don’t have or that Ford does better.  I think you don’t see it because you’re hung up on things that normal buyers don’t care about like big block v8s.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said:

I think you'd be surprised how many new younger customers the Bronco Sport, Maverick and especially Maverick Hybrid are bringing into Ford dealerships. As they push into BEVs this is the group of customers you want coming back to your brand. Ford is a brand that pretty much lives on brand loyalty because to be honest you can get more for less with other brands. If you are selling a brand like Apple sells a brand you need a range of products that appeal to different income levels, age groups and lifestyles.

 

I'd like to see Ford expand their product portfolio a bit in that Bronco Sport and Maverick market. Since the Escape is facing cancelation according to the CEO it opens up a spot for a more attractive offering in that compact market. My guess is it will be a BEV vehicle, but offering a Hybrid in that market would be smart as well. I guess Bronco Sport could become a standard Hybrid like the Maverick then the Escape can be canceled.

Ford will succeed with Maverick and Bronco Sport buyers because they got unique fun vehicles not because they were the cheapest models.

 

Bronco Sport hybrid would further that as would a longer wheelbase Bronco Sport.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said:

Ford is a brand that pretty much lives on brand loyalty because to be honest you can get more for less with other brands.

 

Good point 2005Explorer. Ford's business in the U.S. is indeed heavily dependent customer loyalty. In March, IHS Markit announced the Ford brand had the highest "Overall Loyalty to Make" for the 12th consecutive year. Automotive-Loyalty-Winners-List-2022.pdf (ihsmarkit.com)

 

 

[akirby]

24 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good point 2005Explorer. Ford's business in the U.S. is indeed heavily dependent customer loyalty. In March, IHS Markit announced the Ford brand had the highest "Overall Loyalty to Make" for the 12th consecutive year. Automotive-Loyalty-Winners-List-2022.pdf (ihsmarkit.com)

Its not a good point.  His point is that Ford has terrible products that only sell because of brand loyalty.  It’s just the opposite - they have loyalty because of great products and features.

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Hogwash.  Ford gets tons of conquests because they have great products and features that others don’t have or that Ford does better.  I think you don’t see it because you’re hung up on things that normal buyers don’t care about like big block v8s.

I think both your statement and his can be simultaneously true.  I also don’t think he meant it to the extreme that you’re taking it.

 

I think Ford definitely depends on loyalty - especially in certain segments (like F-series, or Edge which makes the news about it interesting), but also has good conquest sales in others (BS, Maverick, Explorer).  But it’s also true that some competitors are offering more for less money.  Case in point Explorer and Escape’s interiors, while not “bad” may not live up to some competitors.

[jcartwright99]

20 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

A little bird that fly's pretty high told me today people at Ford are NOT HAPPY this was said and internally some damaged control has started. It was UGLY after this and the hope was it would just die on its own and not gain traction.

It was a statement dealing with transition and wasn't said properly with vehicle names and absolute terms; nothing has been finalized if the Escape name was going to transition over to an Electric. "Escape" name recognition is over 85%, the updated model is launching soon (including a large bump in program budget) that fixes the current shortcomings and this is going to over shadow it.  Not a place Ford wants to be with a new model.

 

 

Farley is smart but he’s related to this guy so I expect a few foot in mouth moments.

 

Couldn’t resist…sorry 

 

 

[jpd80]

35 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I think both your statement and his can be simultaneously true.  I also don’t think he meant it to the extreme that you’re taking it.

 

I think Ford definitely depends on loyalty - especially in certain segments (like F-series, or Edge which makes the news about it interesting), but also has good conquest sales in others (BS, Maverick, Explorer).  But it’s also true that some competitors are offering more for less money.  Case in point Explorer and Escape’s interiors, while not “bad” may not live up to some competitors.

Ford also now more sensitive to changing market, adding new product that improve profit and draw attention to the brand,  it doesn’t want to be caught with vehicles that seem to be drifting against better competitors either but I suspect Farley said a bit too much in public as I sense that Ford is nowhere near read to discus the future of Escape beyond it remaining for the next UAW contract period.

[2005Explorer]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Hogwash.  Ford gets tons of conquests because they have great products and features that others don’t have or that Ford does better.  I think you don’t see it because you’re hung up on things that normal buyers don’t care about like big block v8s.

Where did I mention a big block V8? Heck I drive a Ranger with a 2.3 4 cylinder. I buy Ford because I am a loyal Ford customer.

 

As far as competitive products that might be true in the traditional truck segment, but can you look at me with a straight face and tell me Escape is the class leading compact CUV?

[2005Explorer]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Its not a good point.  His point is that Ford has terrible products that only sell because of brand loyalty.  It’s just the opposite - they have loyalty because of great products and features.

Ford has some products that are good values and some that are very poor values versus their competition. I have been around here long enough to remember you arguing anyone who thought Ford should bring out a Jeep Wrangler competitor. You said the future is rounded CUVs and people don't want off-roaders. You also said that the market did not want small "boxy" CUVs when some of us argued that Ford was going in the wrong direction with the Escape and making it too feminine and generic. Look, I am not perfect on my predictions, but you always argue as some industry expert and anyone with a different opinion doesn't have a clue and is stupid. People aren't necessarily looking for cheap, but they are looking for good values in those entry level markets. Maverick is a hot product because it's affordable, but it's also a good value.

 

Now I expect you to come back at me and said you never said any of that stuff, but I have a good memory and remember small things from years ago. Don't make me go back thousands of pages to find it. Lol

Edited June 7, 2022 by 2005Explorer

[akirby]

What I said was Bronco Sport has the boxy/rugged market covered and it made sense for Escape to be softer and go after a different demographic rather than having one vehicle that was a compromise between the two.  IIRC you wanted one vehicle - a boxy escape.  I believe both Escape and Bronco Sport were over 15k each early on but supply chain has wrecked any true sales trends so it’s hard to say right now where they would have been.

 

You think Escape is a failure.  I think it’s doing good but not great and could use some improvement.  More hybrid production would have greatly improved sales.

 

There is nothing about Escape that is so bad that only a Ford loyalist would buy it.

[Deanh]

25 minutes ago, akirby said:

What I said was Bronco Sport has the boxy/rugged market covered and it made sense for Escape to be softer and go after a different demographic rather than having one vehicle that was a compromise between the two.  IIRC you wanted one vehicle - a boxy escape.  I believe both Escape and Bronco Sport were over 15k each early on but supply chain has wrecked any true sales trends so it’s hard to say right now where they would have been.

 

You think Escape is a failure.  I think it’s doing good but not great and could use some improvement.  More hybrid production would have greatly improved sales.

 

There is nothing about Escape that is so bad that only a Ford loyalist would buy it.

it would be interesting if both lineups had hybrids to compare sales/ popularity....

[The Handler]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

But it hasn’t hurt sales.  I think the Sport crowd likes calling them Broncos.  It certainly adds to the emotional appeal and makes them a little more appealing even with the name confusion.

Sure, but it’s still not THE Bronco. I think it can easily stand on its own without the Bronco association. The Maverick does very well without being tied to a well-known nameplate. If the product execution is superb, people will come.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by The Handler

[akirby]

50 minutes ago, The Handler said:

Sure, but it’s still not THE Bronco. I think it can easily stand on its own without the Bronco association. The Maverick does very well without being tied to a well-known nameplate. If the product execution is superb, people will come.

 

Agreed, but what does it hurt?  Why invent a separate name that implies ruggedness?

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

it would be interesting if both lineups had hybrids to compare sales/ popularity....

 

Yeah, it's a shame we don't have a normal market to see what the full potential of each is.

[MyGreatEscape]

Thanks to the few of you who have stood up for the Escape. The Bronco Sport is not appealing to the members of the Ford Escape crowd just yet. However, there are tens and thousands of Ford Escape owners who are quite happy with their vehicles. I have seen the interiors of some of these trucks look cheap and tacky myself, so it is just a matter of one's own perspective. I am proud to be a Ford Escape owner, and I have my third one on order right now.

[T-dubz]

19 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, it's a shame we don't have a normal market to see what the full potential of each is.

I’ve seen more bronco sports on the road then I have seen escapes and the escape has been out twice as long. I have not seen a single man driving a bronco sport. I think the demographic ford was aiming for with the escape is buying the sport instead. If ford offered a sport with 2WD that was priced around the same as an escape, I have no doubt that ford could drop the escape and the sport would do just as many sales to cover both. 
 

if ford plans on keeping the escape, they need to completely rethink its design. The refresh will help, it gets rid of the front end that looks like it’s smiling at you, but it needs more. The body already looks dated like it’s from the same era as the fusion. I think it’s a great opportunity to make something sporty. Something similar to the mach e with less mustang influence but still with an aggressive design. Use the mavericks powertrain, hybrid standard, 2.0 optional. They could even carry over a lot of the interior from the mach e. Maybe  keep the center stack and change the dash to incorporate the 12” IP.

[The Handler]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Agreed, but what does it hurt?  Why invent a separate name that implies ruggedness?

I wouldn’t say it hurts anything. It just causes unnecessary confusion and makes an iconic nameplate less sacred. 
 

The Jeep Renegade is also rugged in appearance, yet doesn’t wear the Wrangler name. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by The Handler

[fuzzymoomoo]

6 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

I think you'd be surprised how many new younger customers the Bronco Sport, Maverick and especially Maverick Hybrid are bringing into Ford dealerships.

Funny you say that, I've been noticing the majority of people I see driving Mavericks so far are retirees. 

[DeluxeStang]

5 hours ago, T-dubz said:

I’ve seen more bronco sports on the road then I have seen escapes and the escape has been out twice as long. I have not seen a single man driving a bronco sport. I think the demographic ford was aiming for with the escape is buying the sport instead. If ford offered a sport with 2WD that was priced around the same as an escape, I have no doubt that ford could drop the escape and the sport would do just as many sales to cover both. 
 

if ford plans on keeping the escape, they need to completely rethink its design. The refresh will help, it gets rid of the front end that looks like it’s smiling at you, but it needs more. The body already looks dated like it’s from the same era as the fusion. I think it’s a great opportunity to make something sporty. Something similar to the mach e with less mustang influence but still with an aggressive design. Use the mavericks powertrain, hybrid standard, 2.0 optional. They could even carry over a lot of the interior from the mach e. Maybe  keep the center stack and change the dash to incorporate the 12” IP.

I think some insiders have mention the next gen escape, probably an ev at this point, is due in like 2025. I agree with your thoughts on the design, I don't hate how the current escape looks, I don't find it ugly, I just think it's meh looking. Well proportioned, good surfacing, but nothing makes you say wow. Ford needs to take a hard look at something like the Tuscon if they want to create a compact crossover that blows peoples minds. 

[silvrsvt]

10 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Funny you say that, I've been noticing the majority of people I see driving Mavericks so far are retirees. 

 

My father in law falls into that-they don't want to spend or need a 60-80K Pickup in the shape of the F-150 and even the Ranger is too big for them. 

 

[silvrsvt]

I have the solution to the Escape name problem-

 

The next gen Bronco Sport adds a LWB model that becomes the Bronco Sport Escape BEV ?

 

 

[silvrsvt]

On 6/7/2022 at 7:03 AM, jpd80 said:

Here’s a thought, what if the “Explorer Sport” was a squarer SUV top hat on the MME?

 

That was my thoughts for it becoming the Edge replacement

 

11 hours ago, MyGreatEscape said:

Thanks to the few of you who have stood up for the Escape. The Bronco Sport is not appealing to the members of the Ford Escape crowd just yet. However, there are tens and thousands of Ford Escape owners who are quite happy with their vehicles. I have seen the interiors of some of these trucks look cheap and tacky myself, so it is just a matter of one's own perspective. I am proud to be a Ford Escape owner, and I have my third one on order right now.

 

I think the criticism of the 2020 Escape has been a bit too harsh-My parents had a 2013 Escape Ti and my wife has a 2017 Escape SEL and my parents just recently got a 2020 Escape. The 2020 Escape interior is fine for what it is and well the styling is just ok-I haven't been a huge fan of Ford's styling direction the past few years outside of a couple products. 

 

The real issue is just the market expectations. Just using a 2013 Ti model vs my wife's 2017 SEL-the SEL actually has more options on it then the 2013-for example it has dual power front seat where the Ti just had a drivers side. But yet it was at least $4-6K cheaper. I think that was the big issue Ford was having with making money on it. 

 

I also get your point about the Maverick and Bronco Sport interiors-they look "cheap" in person, but the Escape gets raked over the coals even though the interior is nicer then both of them. But the Maverick and BS have a better looking design, even though the materials look cheap.