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joseodiaga4

Next gen Lincoln Nautilus for China leaked

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Chinese market vehicle. From the op link: 

Quote

While the mid-size is slated to be built and sold in China, its future in North America isn’t clear, as the Ford Oakville Assembly plant will stop producing the current generation Edge and Nautilus in 2023 to make way for the Ford Explorer and Lincoln Aviator EVs.

 

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Not putting Chinese in the title is just clickbait advertising.  I’ve had to explain this is Chinese only multiple times in other Nautilus groups/forums.

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38 minutes ago, akirby said:

Not putting Chinese in the title is just clickbait advertising.  I’ve had to explain this is Chinese only multiple times in other Nautilus groups/forums.

Fixed!!

I thought it wasn’t necessary, I mean as far as we know the next gen is going to be China only

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29 minutes ago, joseodiaga4 said:

Fixed!!

I thought it wasn’t necessary, I mean as far as we know the next gen is going to be China only


I was referring to FordAuthority and the other sources, not this topic.  Sorry.

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It looks pretty good.  I still say it’s a shame China gets all these products while the US has to soldier on with the same stable for extended periods.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

It looks pretty good.  I still say it’s a shame China gets all these products while the US has to soldier on with the same stable for extended periods.

The issue is that China is moving en masse to BEVs and Ford still delivering gasoline and hybrids. The vehicles that Ford sells now won’t sell in a couple of years.

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The next generation Nautilus pictured here was supposed to be built in China for China consumption and imported here to North America for North America consumption as well. I’m not sure if that is still the plan or not but there’s a 50/50 chance it still happens.

 

The next gen Edge will definitely be China only with zero plans of coming here.

Edited by ExplorerDude

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What is Ford's plan to fill this size/segment?  

 

-Matt

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Looks too generic now, especially the frontend.  It lost the details that made it special.  It doesn't look "Lincoln".

 

Since I'll never see one in person, I doubt they care about my opinion. 

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2 hours ago, MGolden said:

What is Ford's plan to fill this size/segment?  

 

-Matt

EV, I believe. But we don't know much about the several EV SUVs/CUVs Ford and Lincoln say they have coming in the next 2-3 years, other than that the first one will be an Explorer/Aviator-sized EV. The question about the mid-sized 2-row CUV size that the Nautilus currently occupies will be telling, however. Unlike the Aviator-sized vehicle (larger mid-sized with 3 rows), the ICE Nautilus will be shut down completely in North America before its EV replacement arrives. With Aviator there should be overlap, allowing an easier transition. With the EV Nautilus (or whatever it will end up being called), FMC will be betting that the market is ready to go all-in EV in this segment within a couple or three years.

Edited by Gurgeh

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50 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

EV, I believe. But we don't know much about the several EV SUVs/CUVs Ford and Lincoln say they have coming in the next 2-3 years, other than that the first one will be an Explorer/Aviator-sized EV. The question about the mid-sized 2-row CUV size that the Nautilus currently occupies will be telling, however. Unlike the Aviator-sized vehicle (larger mid-sized with 3 rows), the ICE Nautilus will be shut down completely in North America before its EV replacement arrives. With Aviator there should be overlap, allowing an easier transition. With the EV Nautilus (or whatever it will end up being called), FMC will be betting that the market is ready to go all-in EV in this segment within a couple or three years.


It is the same thing with the Edge being absent from the lineup but it is only 200K units; Ford has an issue that they don't have plants to make a smooth transition form ICE to Electric.


If Ford can move 50% of those buyers to a Corsair or Aviator they will be happy, the rest can get a new RX. Ford would love to import vehicles from China, Korea, and Mexico like GM does. GM escapes all negative PR on that over 50% of its vehicles are imported to the US.  If Ford tried that it would be front page news.  Even if it was a modest import of 50K units of the Nautilus and Zephyr that could never sustain a plant investment the PR would be a disaster.

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9 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

The next generation Nautilus pictured here was supposed to be built in China for China consumption and imported here to North America for North America consumption as well. I’m not sure if that is still the plan or not but there’s a 50/50 chance it still happens.


That makes sense especially if the EVs aren’t quite ready.  I hope if they do that they keep the current front end for NA to match Corsair and Aviator.

 

I also thought they might build it alongside Corsair in Louisville as Escape sales start to drop but that might not be possible with the BEV plans.

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19 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The issue is that China is moving en masse to BEVs and Ford still delivering gasoline and hybrids. The vehicles that Ford sells now won’t sell in a couple of years.


right and Even so, they’re getting fresh product until BEV models arrive.

 

meanwhile in its home market, we’re stuck with a warmed over 2016 MKX.  The new dash certainly helps but still.   And a minimal at best Corsair refresh.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:


right and Even so, they’re getting fresh product until BEV models arrive.

 

meanwhile in its home market, we’re stuck with a warmed over 2016 MKX.  The new dash certainly helps but still.   And a minimal at best Corsair refresh.

Which is confounding as a C2 Edge could easily be built alongside Escape at Louisville for the next few years.

2.5 HEV and PHEV offerings would be perfect and match componentry already in use. Also take some pressure 

off Ford delivering so many different BEVs in the next few years.

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Which is confounding as a C2 Edge could easily be built alongside Escape at Louisville for the next few years.

2.5 HEV and PHEV offerings would be perfect and match componentry already in use. Also take some pressure 

off Ford delivering so many different BEVs in the next few years.

There have been tons of rumors about C2 products and exploding demand. Maverick is so popular they are looking to add that 3rd shift at Hermosillo but that may not be enough. I’ve heard rumors of Bronco Sport actually going to Louisville as well to allow for just Maverick production at Hermosillo to meet global demand. Wild stuff I know!

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13 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

FMC will be betting that the market is ready to go all-in EV in this segment within a couple or three years.


My opinion doesn’t mean squat, but I’m betting Ford is wrong on this. I think the transition will be longer and I hope Ford doesn’t short themselves with such a limited and potentially stale lineup of ICE vehicles to sell in the meantime.  They talk about their record sales of EVs, however they likely could have exceptional or record sales of their ICE vehicles if they weren’t hampered by parts shortages or intentional production suppression.  
 

This Lincoln looks pretty good, and I bet it would sell here. It is getting pretty old to see so many new vehicles for the Chinese market with better technology than what is available here.  Lincoln has a very small portfolio to offer its customers and it is aging as rmc523 had mentioned.  So when sales fall off because of lack of new ICE product, we will hear them say it’s because everyone wants EVs not because of them failing to keep their products fresh, which is disappointing. 
 

12 hours ago, jasonj80 said:


GM escapes all negative PR on that over 50% of its vehicles are imported to the US.  If Ford tried that it would be front page news.  Even if it was a modest import of 50K units of the Nautilus and Zephyr that could never sustain a plant investment the PR would be a disaster.


I could care less what GM is doing.  One of the reasons I buy Ford vehicles is they seem to try to build many of them in the US or at least NA. I will NEVER buy a Chinese vehicle. It’s bad enough you can’t avoid general consumer goods made there. If at all possible, I try to avoid supporting regimes that are actively trying to subvert the US. 

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5 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

There have been tons of rumors about C2 products and exploding demand. Maverick is so popular they are looking to add that 3rd shift at Hermosillo but that may not be enough. I’ve heard rumors of Bronco Sport actually going to Louisville as well to allow for just Maverick production at Hermosillo to meet global demand. Wild stuff I know!

Really interesting indeed. Seems like c2 is a runaway success. If I'm remembering correctly, ford wants to have around 12 vehicles with that platform. Excited to see what they come up with, I hope at least one of them is a cool enthusiasts car, but that may be me getting my hopes up haha. 

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Hi there, was lurking and found that the front end of the new Nautilus looks a lot like this EV teaser from Lincoln in 2021. Could they be related? Maybe it’s the electrified version
 

https://fordauthority.com/2021/07/enhanced-lincoln-ev-teaser-image-reveals-zephyr-inspired-front-end/amp/

738C8EEC-E968-48F3-900C-11FADF9D5757.webp

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6 hours ago, BigBendMatt said:

Hi there, was lurking and found that the front end of the new Nautilus looks a lot like this EV teaser from Lincoln in 2021. Could they be related? Maybe it’s the electrified version
 

https://fordauthority.com/2021/07/enhanced-lincoln-ev-teaser-image-reveals-zephyr-inspired-front-end/amp/

738C8EEC-E968-48F3-900C-11FADF9D5757.webp

I don’t think so.  I think it’s just a shared design language.

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On 11/21/2022 at 6:36 AM, BigBendMatt said:

Hi there, was lurking and found that the front end of the new Nautilus looks a lot like this EV teaser from Lincoln in 2021. Could they be related? Maybe it’s the electrified version
 

https://fordauthority.com/2021/07/enhanced-lincoln-ev-teaser-image-reveals-zephyr-inspired-front-end/amp/

738C8EEC-E968-48F3-900C-11FADF9D5757.webp


That is the Chinese only  Zephyr
Lincoln-Zephyr_MA_2-copy.jpg?auto=webp&o

On 11/18/2022 at 9:02 PM, tbone said:

I could care less what GM is doing.  One of the reasons I buy Ford vehicles is they seem to try to build many of them in the US or at least NA. I will NEVER buy a Chinese vehicle. It’s bad enough you can’t avoid general consumer goods made there. If at all possible, I try to avoid supporting regimes that are actively trying to subvert the US. 


I agree with you it should build it here when there is a business case for it but when the option is losing money building it here, not having it, or having it imported from China the choice becomes more difficult; it isn't Black and White. Not having product costs sales, hurts brand awareness, and for a brand that doesn't have the best brand image to begin with they can't afford to lose much more to remain in a viable business case. 86,929 unit sales in 2021, 24,443 were Nautilus about 28% of the brands total volume. The Lincoln dealers need product and sales to stay open, pay taxes keep people employed. There are major markets with one Lincoln dealer, that makes it even harder the sell the limited product you have or want to get another dealer to invest to open a showroom so failure becomes self fulfilling. At some point they'll just pull the plug and it will become a Chinese only brand.

 

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55 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

At some point they'll just pull the plug and it will become a Chinese only brand.

 

If Lincoln's renaissance as a BEV only brand in the U.S. market doesn't come to fruition, that is almost certainly what will happen. 🙁

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9 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

 


That is the Chinese only  Zephyr
Lincoln-Zephyr_MA_2-copy.jpg?auto=webp&o


I agree with you it should build it here when there is a business case for it but when the option is losing money building it here, not having it, or having it imported from China the choice becomes more difficult; it isn't Black and White. Not having product costs sales, hurts brand awareness, and for a brand that doesn't have the best brand image to begin with they can't afford to lose much more to remain in a viable business case. 86,929 unit sales in 2021, 24,443 were Nautilus about 28% of the brands total volume. The Lincoln dealers need product and sales to stay open, pay taxes keep people employed. There are major markets with one Lincoln dealer, that makes it even harder the sell the limited product you have or want to get another dealer to invest to open a showroom so failure becomes self fulfilling. At some point they'll just pull the plug and it will become a Chinese only brand.

 


I don’t disagree with you, it is a complex matter for sure.  I also find the Zephyr to be a nice looking vehicle that also hasn’t landed here.  It will be interesting to see what happens because losing 28% of your volume in one vehicle is substantial.  They are going to have to do something, because I don’t think three vehicles is going to cut it.   

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50 minutes ago, tbone said:


I don’t disagree with you, it is a complex matter for sure.  I also find the Zephyr to be a nice looking vehicle that also hasn’t landed here.  It will be interesting to see what happens because losing 28% of your volume in one vehicle is substantial.  They are going to have to do something, because I don’t think three vehicles is going to cut it.   


Dont forget there are at least two and probably 3 BEVs coming around the time Nautilus disappears.  But I’d love to see it stick around with a hybrid built here.

 

Planning to keep our 22 for a long time.

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On 11/18/2022 at 4:42 AM, Anthony said:

Looks too generic now, especially the frontend.  It lost the details that made it special.  It doesn't look "Lincoln".

 

Since I'll never see one in person, I doubt they care about my opinion. 

I mean, it's 10X times better than the current version. 

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