Ford to Rethink Where It Builds Its Vehicles.

[mackinaw]

Shawn Fain's response:

 

"UAW President Shawn Fain slams Ford CEO's comments on 'manufacturing footprint"

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2024/02/15/ford-ceo-says-company-will-rethink-where-it-builds-vehicles-after-last-years-autoworkers-strike/72612953007/

[akirby]

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

Everybody wants to earn more money and then they run over to Walmart to buy the cheapest Chinese crap they can get the hands on. I for one will not worry about the 900 dollars added to the cost of a new vehicle. The workers bust their ass for the company and deserve every penny they get.

 

This is just another useless thread to bash the UAW and unions in general. It should be locked.

It’s not about charging a little more or losing some profit.  It’s about being able to compete with the Japanese, Koreans, Chinese and Europeans.  Not to mention the constant threat of strikes and business disruptions.   F series is fine but lower priced vehicles will suffer greatly.

[twintornados]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

It’s not about charging a little more or losing some profit.  It’s about being able to compete with the Japanese, Koreans, Chinese and Europeans.  Not to mention the constant threat of strikes and business disruptions.   F series is fine but lower priced vehicles will suffer greatly.

 

Still another useless post only to bash unions. How do American built cars fare in foreign markets? Terrible as the Japanese, Korean, Chinese and Euopean markets tariff the hell out of our products. But sure...it's the Unions fault and every American auto worker should be happy making less and less so that they can sell cars cheaper and appease shareholders. There is a fine line and blaming unions is not part of that line.

[tbone]

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Still another useless post only to bash unions. How do American built cars fare in foreign markets? Terrible as the Japanese, Korean, Chinese and Euopean markets tariff the hell out of our products. But sure...it's the Unions fault and every American auto worker should be happy making less and less so that they can sell cars cheaper and appease shareholders. There is a fine line and blaming unions is not part of that line.

You really believe that the impact of this latest contract and the long term implications of it have no bearing on the ability to compete with all the different brands?  You do understand it’s American consumers that are also going to feel that impact right? Nobody disputes that the workers didn’t deserve raises, and I believe everyone should make as much money as they can, but that contract is pretty extraordinary, and the unions approach to it was not positive IMO.  

[ice-capades]

9 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Still another useless post only to bash unions. How do American built cars fare in foreign markets? Terrible as the Japanese, Korean, Chinese and Euopean markets tariff the hell out of our products. But sure...it's the Unions fault and every American auto worker should be happy making less and less so that they can sell cars cheaper and appease shareholders. There is a fine line and blaming unions is not part of that line.

 

Both Ford and the UAW are responsible for a number of reasons including a lot of short-sighted decision making by Ford executives and a lot of other factors that hurt Ford, its customers and its shareholders long term. The UAW bears just as much of the responsibility for the current situation and is not a victim. A respectful discussion, pro and con, based on individual experiences and knowledge on both sides can be beneficial in learning more, as long as the parties involved can agree to disagree. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

41 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

as long as the parties involved can agree to disagree. 

my observation is Shawn Fain is incapable of that. 

[GearheadGrrrl]

The shortage of workers is worldwide= Cheap workforces are disappearing and companies won't have cheap workers to exploit to make up for their mismanagement.

[silvrsvt]

17 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

The shortage of workers is worldwide= Cheap workforces are disappearing and companies won't have cheap workers to exploit to make up for their mismanagement.

 

But automation and moving it to other countries where the cost of living is cheaper (plus whatever tax breaks they get) will make their decisions easier.

 

No matter what a company pays for its workers, mismanagement will kill it off sooner then later...that is a pretty cavalier comment that lower paid workers are the Only reason they stay in business. 

[Joe771476]

Let them price themselves out of a job! We won't be able to afFORD a Ford! And if Ford continues its path toward EV's, they will be out of business!

Edited February 16 by Joe771476

[akirby]

2 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

The shortage of workers is worldwide= Cheap workforces are disappearing and companies won't have cheap workers to exploit to make up for their mismanagement.

Paying market or higher than market wages to workers who choose those jobs with free will is not exploiting them.  If you don’t like the pay go find another job or start your own business.

[fuzzymoomoo]

18 minutes ago, akirby said:

Paying market or higher than market wages to workers who choose those jobs with free will is not exploiting them.  If you don’t like the pay go find another job or start your own business.

I will give the union credit where credit is due, they’re trying to set the market rate and in doing so actually making serous attempts to organize foreign plants down south. Whether or not the market can bear it, or the organization attempts are even successful remains to be seen. I am skeptical. 

Edited February 16 by fuzzymoomoo

[akirby]

13 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Still another useless post only to bash unions. How do American built cars fare in foreign markets? Terrible as the Japanese, Korean, Chinese and Euopean markets tariff the hell out of our products. But sure...it's the Unions fault and every American auto worker should be happy making less and less so that they can sell cars cheaper and appease shareholders. There is a fine line and blaming unions is not part of that line.

You don’t have to like it, but that is the reality of a free market retail business environment.  Failing to maintain cost parity with your competition puts your business at risk  of reduced profit margins, lower sales and in extreme cases bankruptcy.  If the union chooses to raise their labor costs significantly above the competition then there will be consequences.  The same goes for taxes, interest, rent, software costs, etc.  if costs get too high and there are other options then changes are made.

 

Thats not union bashing.  Its reality.  Ford was willing to absorb higher costs to a point, but the union demanded far more than that so now there will be consequences.  It’s not personal.

[grbeck]

13 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Still another useless post only to bash unions. How do American built cars fare in foreign markets? Terrible as the Japanese, Korean, Chinese and Euopean markets tariff the hell out of our products. But sure...it's the Unions fault and every American auto worker should be happy making less and less so that they can sell cars cheaper and appease shareholders. There is a fine line and blaming unions is not part of that line.

 

Ford's strategy has been to open local factories and build vehicles tailored to the conditions of those countries.

 

Visit London, Paris or Tokyo...very few people will want to drive an F-150 or even an Explorer in those cities - let alone pay for the gas to keep it running. 

[akirby]

15 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I will give the union credit where credit is due, they’re trying to set the market rate and in doing so actually making serous attempts to organize foreign plants down south. Whether or not the market can bear it, or the organization attempts are even successful remains to be seen. I am skeptical. 
 

 

 

I know that’s what they think and want to happen, but that’s not reality.  All it will do is drive more jobs to Mexico or other countries or eliminate jobs altogether.

[akirby]

BTW the company was offering 20% raises along with continuing free healthcare.  In no way shape or form was that paying workers less and less.  Just the opposite.

[HotRunrGuy]

20 hours ago, twintornados said:

I for one will not worry about the 900 dollars added to the cost of a new vehicle.

 

The irony is that the UAW got their members a $1500 Member Discount, on top of the A-Plan employee purchase plan an employee can use, so they don't have to pay the up-charge as a result of their new contract.

 

HRG

[mackinaw]

And now we have this: "UAW threatens new strike at Ford's Kentucky Truck Plant if local contract isn't resolved"

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2024/02/16/uaw-threatens-strike-ford-kentucky-truck-plant-local-contract-negotiations/72629651007/?csp=chromepush

[DeluxeStang]

15 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Still another useless post only to bash unions. How do American built cars fare in foreign markets? Terrible as the Japanese, Korean, Chinese and Euopean markets tariff the hell out of our products. But sure...it's the Unions fault and every American auto worker should be happy making less and less so that they can sell cars cheaper and appease shareholders. There is a fine line and blaming unions is not part of that line.

Saying unions aren't part of that fine line is like saying icebergs had nothing to do with the Titanic sinking. The greed of people like Fein is a weight around Ford's neck to the tune of thousands of additional dollars to get the same job done. Ford employee's deserve decent salaries, but holy shit dude, does someone who bolts a tire on deserve to be paid more than a Ford engineer or designer? 

[Footballfan]

41 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Saying unions aren't part of that fine line is like saying icebergs had nothing to do with the Titanic sinking. The greed of people like Fein is a weight around Ford's neck to the tune of thousands of additional dollars to get the same job done. Ford employee's deserve decent salaries, but holy shit dude, does someone who bolts a tire on deserve to be paid more than a Ford engineer or designer? 

If you want to talk greed, let's start at the CEO level.  The engineer or designer works in a nice air conditioned office, sits in a comfy chair all day, and can walk out of the office at the end of a workday without any aches or pains.  I have the highest respect for those folks on the line who come in every day and do their jobs.  

[Gurgeh]

1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

And now we have this: "UAW threatens new strike at Ford's Kentucky Truck Plant if local contract isn't resolved"

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2024/02/16/uaw-threatens-strike-ford-kentucky-truck-plant-local-contract-negotiations/72629651007/?csp=chromepush

I had no idea so many Ford locals had still not approved a new contract. While it is certainly their right under the law, going hardball on striking the Kentucky Truck Plant (again) isn't going to do much to help restore company/union relations (which may not be something the UAW's new leadership actually wants to see) and reaffirm FMC's commitment going forward to depend on UAW labor as much as possible for its production.

 

"The threat comes a day after Ford CEO Jim Farley suggested that the Dearborn automaker is rethinking its U.S. footprint after the union opted to strike at the Kentucky plant, making it the first truck factory hit during the Detroit-based union's targeted strike amid contract talks last fall...

 

"Strikes over local contracts aren't unprecedented, but they're not common. Members at UAW Local 1166 representing workers at Stellantis NV's casting plant in Kokomo, Indiana, went on strike over their local agreement in 2022.

 

"Farley on Thursday told financial analysts during the the Wolfe Research Global Auto and Auto Tech Conference that Ford's relationship with UAW, which historically had been productive, has changed since the union’s battle with the Dearborn automaker last fall.

 

" 'Our reliance on the UAW turned out to be we were the first truck plant they shut down,' Farley said.  'And that was a moment for us. Clearly, our relationship has changed … does it have business impact? Yes.'

 

"Along with Kentucky Truck, there are 19 other open local agreements across Ford, according to the union, along with several open local agreements at General Motors Co. and Stellantis NV."

Edited February 16 by Gurgeh

[Footballfan]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

BTW the company was offering 20% raises along with continuing free healthcare.  In no way shape or form was that paying workers less and less.  Just the opposite.

If you look at the highest inflation in 50 years we have seen this decade, that 20 percent does not seem so large. 

[silvrsvt]

23 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

If you look at the highest inflation in 50 years we have seen this decade, that 20 percent does not seem so large. 

 

And what makes the UAW more special than other people that haven't got COLAs or pay raises in the same time?

 

Anyways what this boils down to is that the UAW has broken its relationship with Ford it has had over the past 40 years or so. Being adversarial to your employer isn't good for your job stability long term.  

[silvrsvt]

28 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

If you want to talk greed, let's start at the CEO level.  The engineer or designer works in a nice air conditioned office, sits in a comfy chair all day, and can walk out of the office at the end of a workday without any aches or pains.  I have the highest respect for those folks on the line who come in every day and do their jobs.  

 

So since we are painting with platitudes here, what about all the assembly line workers who call out on unauthorized sick day the first day of hunting season, basically knee caping any production for a day or two?

Saying one group has it better than the other is disingenuous 

[iamweasel]

48 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

If you want to talk greed, let's start at the CEO level.  The engineer or designer works in a nice air conditioned office, sits in a comfy chair all day, and can walk out of the office at the end of a workday without any aches or pains.  I have the highest respect for those folks on the line who come in every day and do their jobs.  

 

And those folks on the line have every opportunity to get that engineering or designer job if they want. 

 

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

If you want to talk greed, let's start at the CEO level.  The engineer or designer works in a nice air conditioned office, sits in a comfy chair all day, and can walk out of the office at the end of a workday without any aches or pains.  I have the highest respect for those folks on the line who come in every day and do their jobs.  

I was gonna say something mean, but I didn't want to be petty. So I'll just say if you think being an engineer is easy because they have air conditioning and chairs, then you've never really had a quality conversation with an engineer. There were so many sleepless nights that my grandfather, and other Boeing engineers had when trying to create things like the original 747, because they were having to solve problems no-one knew even existed, because no-one had tried to engineer a civilian airliner at that scale before. Boeing has nice offices, and good benefits, that didn't mean his job was easy. 

 

It's not just physical discomfort that makes a job uncomfortable, and if it is, well then hell, my grandfather has you beat there as well. There were times where they'd have to hike through miles of mountainous terrain to get to a crash site. Pretty sure that's gonna give you some aches and pains.