Ford August 2016 Sales Down 8%

[jpd80]

Two companies have different goals for their vehicles evidently in sales though they still compete with each other.

How many Camaro and Mustang sales are really cross shopped?

Given the tribal nature of sales, I'd think not many at all..

 

I never said Mustang is a fleet queen though that's what the v6 is primarily for. Ford could had filled fleet orders for the year already and now on MY'17 customers for August-December.

You said that,

Mustang is being given away in lower-end fleet models .....

The base V6 is not much below the cost of 1LT Camaro, some of those Gen 6s can now bee seen

for rent at airports.too. The truth is that both companies use fleet sales judiciously to add value to

their business, I don't think either is excessive.

Edited September 10, 2016 by jpd80

[Harley Lover]

So one model with somewhat higher inventories then it's chief rival is a cause for alarm?. Is GM making Money off it is the real question.

 

 

In no instance is 139 days of supply optimal. Period. If that level of inventory continues for the Camaro, then GM will be forced to cut back production or find a way to move the metal (incentives).

[Donaldo]

Toyota 4Runner sales have doubled since 2010 - it is a player in this market with sales likely going to 6 figures in 2016

4Runner is the 'civilized' Wrangler that is mentioned here - And it has the Toyota perception of being better just because it is a Toyota. Not sure how they do this since I think it is hideous from every angle.

 

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/toyota-4runner-sales-figures.html

 

 

I think also included in this off-road/"active lifestyle" oriented market are vehicles like the Subaru Forester which sold almost 160,000 in 2015, and the Outback which sold 139,000. It's not just a few people in the northeast or Rockies who want a practical daily driver that has AWD and higher ground clearance. The Escape/Explorer/Edge are much lower to the ground than these Subarus.

[MKII]

 

 

I think also included in this off-road/"active lifestyle" oriented market are vehicles like the Subaru Forester which sold almost 160,000 in 2015, and the Outback which sold 139,000. It's not just a few people in the northeast or Rockies who want a practical daily driver that has AWD and higher ground clearance. The Escape/Explorer/Edge are much lower to the ground than these Subarus.

Forester & Outback are 0.8"s higher then the Escape & Edge, & 1.1"s higher then the Explorer.

Is that much higher?

Edited September 10, 2016 by MKII

[BORG]

It seems unlikely that Ford would want two midsize SUVs just so one can have a truck frame for a niche market who want a worse riding, slower, lower gas mileage, more cramped, but better off-roading vehicle that isn't the Expedition. Whatever the Bronco is, it better not be the Everest because the next Explorer in particular will murder it in every possible measure. Remember the Everest doesn't even have an IRS, something all Ford SUVs have had since 2003.

Edited September 10, 2016 by BORG

[jpd80]

It seems unlikely that Ford would want two midsize SUVs just so one can have a truck frame for a niche market who want a worse riding, slower, lower gas mileage, more cramped, but better off-roading vehicle that isn't the Expedition.

And that's entirely because those vehicles are aimed at on road customers that rarely if ever take their vehicles off road.

Perhaps Ford sees a market for a new more rugged vehicle below Expedition - any more than that is just guessing.

 

Whatever the Bronco is, it better not be the Everest because the next Explorer in particular will murder it in every possible measure. Remember the Everest doesn't even have an IRS, something all Ford SUVs have had since 2003.

Which would be fine if indeed Bronco was aimed at the soft road market. In some press releases, Ford has made mention

of going after different customer groups with more rugged looking SUVs. Could it be we're all overshooting the target here?

 

A good litmus test will be if GM builds Colorado 7 SUV as the next Trailblazer...or not.

While Mid Sized Dual Cab truck sales seem to be encouraging would the Utility twin also work?

Edited September 10, 2016 by jpd80

[papilgee4evaeva]

It seems unlikely that Ford would want two midsize SUVs just so one can have a truck frame for a niche market who want a worse riding, slower, lower gas mileage, more cramped, but better off-roading vehicle that isn't the Expedition.

 

They wouldn't be the only ones to do so if they did. Highlander and 4Runner still coexist.

[PREMiERdrum]

I am so curious to see what a Bronco actually is (or if it really exists)

I've been told that the new light truck program, which includes Bronco, was quote "protected" from the upcoming product review, in which very few programs (F-Series, Mustang, D-Utility) have such protection.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I've been told that the new light truck program, which includes Bronco, was quote "protected" from the upcoming product review, in which very few programs (F-Series, Mustang, D-Utility) have such protection.

Thank you, that's very comforting to hear, especially since your sources tend to be very reliable.

[jpd80]

So perhaps we're looking at either a heavy evolution of the current T6 with maybe new top hats

but would that extend to alloy bodies or would HT bodies be a good low cost alternative..

[silvrsvt]

I've been told that the new light truck program, which includes Bronco, was quote "protected" from the upcoming product review, in which very few programs (F-Series, Mustang, D-Utility) have such protection.

Given what is going on and Ford being very proactive about it, what can they realistically kill off without becoming uncompetitive in the marketplace? Yeah the Taurus in North America is going away..but all other sedans can be based or share platforms with CUVs.

 

Maybe Lincoln products that arent S/CUVs?

Edited September 12, 2016 by silvrsvt

[PREMiERdrum]

Given what is going on and Ford being very proactive about it, what can they realistically kill off without becoming uncompetitive in the marketplace? Yeah the Taurus in North America is going away..but all other sedans can be based or share platforms with CUVs.

 

Maybe Lincoln products that arent S/CUVs?

 

I think the review is going to do more shifting of timelines than canceling outright products. Reading the tealeaves, B and C utilities are speeding up, CD6 utilities staying on target, and questions about Edge and its place in a simplified lineup.

 

It's clear to me that Escape is and will be positioned as the new family car... Fusion investment is going to cool.

[jasonj80]

 

I think the review is going to do more shifting of timelines than canceling outright products. Reading the tealeaves, B and C utilities are speeding up, CD6 utilities staying on target, and questions about Edge and its place in a simplified lineup.

 

It's clear to me that Escape is and will be positioned as the new family car... Fusion investment is going to cool.

 

Similar to what I've been told, the small bits I've gotten that basically CUV/SUV will be moved up, Ecosport, Escape and next Edge are being studied to launch before the next Fiesta/Focus/Fusion. They are also studying SUV variants (Think X2,X4,X6).

 

​On another note was told that the old Acadia was the number one traded in vehicle on an Explorer last month that was not an older Explorer.

[PREMiERdrum]

 

​On another note was told that the old Acadia was the number one traded in vehicle on an Explorer last month that was not an older Explorer.

 

I know that there are lots of questions being asked inside the silos wondering why the new Acadia is the new Acadia.. They completely misread what their buyers wanted.

 

Edit to add: The next Explorer is testing well, and has taken the route that GM *should* have taken for the Lambda program. You can change structure without changing concept.

Edited September 12, 2016 by PREMiERdrum

[akirby]

I still think there is room for a 3 row Edge for folks who don't want an Explorer but still need seating for 7.

 

I also think they could do 2 C sized CUVs with the shorter one having unique styling (think Juke or Soul) rather than a B sized ecosport. Both could be made in the new Mexico plant.

[PREMiERdrum]

I still think there is room for a 3 row Edge for folks who don't want an Explorer but still need seating for 7.

 

I also think they could do 2 C sized CUVs with the shorter one having unique styling (think Juke or Soul) rather than a B sized ecosport. Both could be made in the new Mexico plant.

 

You aren't the only one raising these points. Meanwhile, in Dearborn...

[silvrsvt]

I think the review is going to do more shifting of timelines than canceling outright products. Reading the tealeaves, B and C utilities are speeding up, CD6 utilities staying on target, and questions about Edge and its place in a simplified lineup.

 

It's clear to me that Escape is and will be positioned as the new family car... Fusion investment is going to cool.

 

That makes sense. I wonder if we'll see hybrid CUVs coming from Ford sooner then later...id say that's one major thing they are lacking in now.

 

Plus if gas prices go up again, they can readjust to making more fuel efferent sedans.

[akirby]

I expect to see a lot of hybrid B, C and CD utilities going forward.

[Kev-Mo]

 

 

I think also included in this off-road/"active lifestyle" oriented market are vehicles like the Subaru Forester which sold almost 160,000 in 2015, and the Outback which sold 139,000. It's not just a few people in the northeast or Rockies who want a practical daily driver that has AWD and higher ground clearance. The Escape/Explorer/Edge are much lower to the ground than these Subarus.

 

Subaru's are not off road vehicles. They are vehicles marketed for outdoor active consumers, but they don't have low range or serious ground clearance. One can drive a good distance on most US Forest Service roads and get to the remote campgrounds without a serious 4x4 like a Subaru. However, the sales figures on the Wrangler and 4Runner indicate there is healthy market for consumers who want the real deal. Use of the serious 4x4 as intended not is not of concern - the fact they line up to buy them is what matters.

[MKII]

So is Fields going back to "Bold Moves" and give the boot to the Fiesta and carry on with the MK3 Focus while the rest of Ford world moves on to the MK4 Focus?

Edited September 12, 2016 by MKII

[jasonj80]

I still think there is room for a 3 row Edge for folks who don't want an Explorer but still need seating for 7.

 

I also think they could do 2 C sized CUVs with the shorter one having unique styling (think Juke or Soul) rather than a B sized ecosport. Both could be made in the new Mexico plant.

3 row edge could come at mid-cycle refresh, for the amount of them running around Dearborn now makes me think it is well or was, could become your value 3 row player and push the Explorer up a notch, also allows people to get a smaller 3 row vehicle. They are going to need to add something at Oakville to keep the union happy.

 

 

Ford was going to offer their new small diesel in SUVs here late decade, I have no idea on those plans now that VW imploded that market and made Diesel a horrid word. Though they could always send it out for outside testing and use the tagline diesel done right or something like that.

[blazerdude20]

 

You aren't the only one raising these points. Meanwhile, in Dearborn...

The Escape could use more rear leg room, hopefully that's on the docket for next gen. The current one can barely fit a car seat, if you have the seat all the way up. Hard to market that as the new "family" car when the fusion can swallow car seats no problem. The width doesn't seem to be as big a concern.

[ANTAUS]

There was an interesting article on one of the car mags, it was a comparison of the original '84 Chrysler Minivan, against the new Pacifica. From the 3400lbs, 27 inches shorter with an anemic 100hp engine, to todays mega beast. We consumers have gotten so spoiled, and some of them have gotten fat and less flexible. How easy we were able to fit in those vehicles back then.

[rmc523]

So is Fields going back to "Bold Moves" and give the boot to the Fiesta and carry on with the MK3 Focus while the rest of Ford world moves on to the MK4 Focus?

 

Uh? No.

[jasonj80]

We consumers have gotten so spoiled, and some of them have gotten fat and less flexible. How easy we were able to fit in those vehicles back then.

That's why we want cars that drive themselves, one hand in the bag eating Taco Bell and French fries and one hand on the 64oz Pepsi. If you want investment advice on the future, screw the company that makes the first driving car diabetes meds is where it's going to be at.

Edited September 13, 2016 by jasonj80