jasonj80 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 If it is an install issue wouldn't Charger/Tahoe etc would have the same issues? So either the Explorer is sealed better or doesn't bring in as much outside air. I would be interesting in a control study, IE test officers not in Explorer for CO levels as well as a regular Explorer driver. Etc This story is short on scientific facts at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I think the idea that there is a design flaw is a bit premature at this point. There seems to be quite a bit of difference in outcomes between various police departments. Some have issues some don't so what is the difference between them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I think the idea that there is a design flaw is a bit premature at this point. There seems to be quite a bit of difference in outcomes between various police departments. Some have issues some don't so what is the difference between them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I think the idea that there is a design flaw is a bit premature at this point. There seems to be quite a bit of difference in outcomes between various police departments. Some have issues some don't so what is the difference between them? difference in what and how all the cop equipment is installed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Exhaust leaks are always possible; that's one reason why the auto manufacturers try so hard to seal the underside of the cabin on modern cars. If you have aftermarket installers punching extra holes in the shell and doing a so-so of sealing them, that's not a design flaw on Ford's part, it's shoddy workmanship on the part of the installer. As for why it's not affecting other LE vehicles, I'd imagine that it's the same reason as why it's only affecting the PIs and PIUs of some departments--it's all about what extra equipment is installed and if/where it penetrates the cabin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 and that fume being picked up by the A/C either front or rear to which Ford is reprogramming to add more fresh air . If there was a leak near the HVAC pick up, wouldn't you want recirc under full power? The first treatment for carbon monoxide poisoning is to get the patient fresh air. If they thought it was coming in through the fresh air intake, they'd likely do something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) The first treatment for carbon monoxide poisoning is to get the patient fresh air. If they thought it was coming in through the fresh air intake, they'd likely do something else. It depends if we're talking about a chronic build up or periodic gassing under full acceleration which is when people are smelling SO2. It is possible that two different things are occurring in different vehicles. First rule of Ford's automotive warranty is blame the customer, you drilled holes in it, you didn't close the back door, you drove it too hard too often..... Yeah, I've heard them all and the best one is they all do that sir..... Edited August 4, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 This has to be a chronic buildup while idling. WOT may introduce a noticeable smell but not enough for that type of CO poisoning. As for Ford blaming installers - if it's only occuring on PIUs with huge holes left by installers then I'd say that's putting blame where blame belongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Has there been any indication this has affected the sedan, which is essentially the same platform? Most of the equipment is installed in the center console or the rear of the vehicles, unless a cage was added. So aside from possible holes in the firewall for power supply, those would be the main areas for possible leakage. In the sedan the trunk is basically sealed off from the cabin, whereas the Utility is obviously open. Gun racks, gun/equipment vaults, and radios are the primary items that go to the rear, so there are a number of opportunities for holes to be drilled in the floor. I know manufacturers are reluctant to accept responsibility, but there are a number of mitigating factors that suggest it may not be Fords direct issue. However, from a public relations perspective, it's still their issue and needs to be dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 LS Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Local news are saying ford may have to issue a recall on the cracked exhaust manifold on PIUs only. That part is in the engine compartment, not rear of vehicle! Maybe PIU used a different design for it, or different suppliers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Has there been any indication this has affected the sedan, which is essentially the same platform? Most of the equipment is installed in the center console or the rear of the vehicles, unless a cage was added. So aside from possible holes in the firewall for power supply, those would be the main areas for possible leakage. In the sedan the trunk is basically sealed off from the cabin, whereas the Utility is obviously open. Gun racks, gun/equipment vaults, and radios are the primary items that go to the rear, so there are a number of opportunities for holes to be drilled in the floor. I know manufacturers are reluctant to accept responsibility, but there are a number of mitigating factors that suggest it may not be Fords direct issue. However, from a public relations perspective, it's still their issue and needs to be dealt with. I asked the same. Nobody knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) I asked the same. Nobody knows. According to this NHTSA doc ( https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2017/INOA-EA17002-5925.PDF), they are investigating the Explorer, including the PIU, for exhaust odor issues. There's no mention of the Taurus or PI. (It does reference the Police Interceptor, but it's clear that they're actually referencing the PIU rather than the sedan.) Interestingly, the number of complaints is actually very small, 2719 incidents out of a population of 1.3 million vehicles. Edited August 5, 2017 by SoonerLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02MustangGT Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I have a 2002 Mustang GT that I drive 4 times per month and I smell like exhaust fumes after I park it. I installed long tube headers, cat-less H Pipe and high flow mufflers, should I be concerned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I have a 2002 Mustang GT that I drive 4 times per month and I smell like exhaust fumes after I park it. I installed long tube headers, cat-less H Pipe and high flow mufflers, should I be concerned? only if you can taste almonds...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 There are a lot of modifications done by Ford as part of the available options for the Police Interceptor units. Attached is a copy of the 2018 Police Interceptor Utility Order Guide so that everyone can see for themselves. 2018 Police Interceptor Utility Order Guide.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 According to this NHTSA doc ( https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2017/INOA-EA17002-5925.PDF), they are investigating the Explorer, including the PIU, for exhaust odor issues. There's no mention of the Taurus or PI. (It does reference the Police Interceptor, but it's clear that they're actually referencing the PIU rather than the sedan.) Interestingly, the number of complaints is actually very small, 2719 incidents out of a population of 1.3 million vehicles. The most recent spin I've read is that Ford and NHTSA are differentiating the exhaust smell issue from the carbon monoxide issue, ie 2 different problems: Ford believes the issues in the police vehicles are caused by aftermarket modifications that require wiring access holes to be drilled in the rear of the vehicle that are not sealed properly. Those holes do not exist on the Explorer sold to consumers and the automaker contends it has not seen the same issue with the regular SUV. NHTSA has an unrelated open investigation covering an estimated 1.33 million Ford Explorers — both police models and regular models — from 2011-17 model years for reports of exhaust odors in the main cabin. The investigation comes after 2,719 reports fielded by NHTSA and Ford. Eleven of those involve the police interceptor versions. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2017/08/03/ford-explorer-carbon-monoxide/104254060/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 According to Boston's Fox channel 25, they reported today that .."Auburn Police report the Ford engineers have fixed the carbon monoxide problem and all Ford Explorers are back in service." No specifics given as to just what "fix" was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2017/08/carbon_monoxide_leaks_inside_a.amp Seems taillight and aftermarket equipment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 I'm glad to see they are working quickly to resolve this rather than just play blame game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2017/08/carbon_monoxide_leaks_inside_a.amp Seems taillight and aftermarket equipment. Interesting snippet from that article: The town found three other Ford Explorers tested positive for carbon monoxide - two fire department vehicles and one public works vehicle. Those vehicles, which do not have the Interceptor package, should be fixed by Monday. I wonder what modifications those vehicles had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdegrand Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 I couldn't find any articles regarding the fix in the local Austin newspapers this morning. Hopefully, they will get the word out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Interesting snippet from that article: I wonder what modifications those vehicles had. Probably strobes in the lights. So wiring going to each taillamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 I couldn't find any articles regarding the fix in the local Austin newspapers this morning. Hopefully, they will get the word out. Maybe this, auburn police say cruiser problem fixed after co scare by cyrus moulton telegram & gazette staff posted aug 5, 2017 at 8:06 pm updated at 6:15 am http://www.telegram.com/news/2017080...after-co-scare Auburn - the Auburn police department announced saturday evening that they believe they have corrected the carbon monoxide issue in local cruisers which recently sent six officers to the hospital. “the police department was very pleased and impressed with the rapid and professional response by Ford and its engineering staff which spent several days troubleshooting the problem,” auburn police said in a statement on the department’s facebook page. “we anticipate that by monday the co issue (will) have been corrected in the three remaining vehicles that have not been modified to correct the problem.” Auburn police said Saturday that modifications to correct the CO problem included removing exterior aftermarket emergency lighting, sealing the tail light wiring areas and replacing the rear spoiler clips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 This still makes it sound like Ford was at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Interesting snippet from that article: I wonder what modifications those vehicles had. Even though the other Explorers weren't PIUs, they likely had strobes or some other emergency lighting installed, so I suspect that was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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