Ford to import Fusion from China... or not

[grbeck]

Regarding the Chevrolet Malibu - hasn't that been somewhat of a sales dud since the new generation arrived? Has it really been "turning any heads" away from more profitable crossovers and SUVs?

 

The Fusion had been selling well. The real problem here has been the lack of anything that looks new. Ford could, however, discontinue the North American Taurus, and simply consolidate its passenger car offerings around the Focus and Fusion (with the Mustang catering to its loyal audience).

 

As interest in sedans declines, the marginal players will leave first. They could theoretically exit the segment faster than it shrinks, thus giving the strongest entries the ability to at least maintain sales. Ford has been the strongest of the domestics in this segment, particularly in rural areas, where it's common to see a Ford passenger car parked beside an F-Series or Expedition in the driveway.

 

If you look at the Honda Civic and Accord, it's apparent that they have been designed to be the "anti-SUV." Both are still low, and make no attempt at mimicking the ride height, or even ease of entry and exit, offered by crossovers and SUVs. They are also a fair bit more expensive than the preceding generation.

 

It's almost as though Honda is saying, "If you really want a car, we'll give you a low-slung one, and you'll pay more for the extra equipment and more deluxe interior.'" Perhaps this has influenced Ford's strategy...?

[jasonj80]

 

If you look at the Honda Civic and Accord, it's apparent that they have been designed to be the "anti-SUV." Both are still low, and make no attempt at mimicking the ride height, or even ease of entry and exit, offered by crossovers and SUVs. They are also a fair bit more expensive than the preceding generation.

 

It's almost as though Honda is saying, "If you really want a car, we'll give you a low-slung one, and you'll pay more for the extra equipment and more deluxe interior.'" Perhaps this has influenced Ford's strategy...?

 

But at the same time Honda has the CR-V, and there is the Passport coming back next year that will be aimed at the Accord buyer that wants an SUV that currently is leaving Honda for Ford/Nissan/Lexus. So they are appealing to their loyal car fans while giving them options for SUV's. There is also a roomer that the Civic Hatchback will be gaining AWD and a higher ride height to go after the Crossteck from Subaru.

 

​

[tbone]

I think it stinks. Buying the wife a new Escape. Only way to get BLIS is to package it up with a bunch of stuff she'll never use. It used to be standard on the Titanium.

I would agree the packages need to be well thought out. I actually think safety options should be standard though.

[rmc523]

I think it stinks. Buying the wife a new Escape. Only way to get BLIS is to package it up with a bunch of stuff she'll never use. It used to be standard on the Titanium.

 

But I think the point would be that with fewer option combinations, oddities like that wouldn't happen.

 

SE comes with this this, and this.

SEL adds this and that as standard, with a few options.

Titanium comes with most things standard, with maybe one or two options.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I think it stinks. Buying the wife a new Escape. Only way to get BLIS is to package it up with a bunch of stuff she'll never use. It used to be standard on the Titanium.

Packaging for the Escape has been stupid ever since the 2013 model came out.

[jpd80]

Regarding the Chevrolet Malibu - hasn't that been somewhat of a sales dud since the new generation arrived? Has it really been "turning any heads" away from more profitable crossovers and SUVs?

I Remember a year or so back when GM said the success of the new Malibu actually hurt profitability;

Chevrolet needed a better mid-size sedan, but what it didn't need was for that sedan to steal it's own

customers from a GM CUV, which is what happened, didn't help that all the CUV's were so old back then..

 

As interest in sedans declines, the marginal players will leave first. They could theoretically exit the segment faster than it shrinks, thus giving the strongest entries the ability to at least maintain sales. Ford has been the strongest of the domestics in this segment, particularly in rural areas, where it's common to see a Ford passenger car parked beside an F-Series or Expedition in the driveway.

 

If you look at the Honda Civic and Accord, it's apparent that they have been designed to be the "anti-SUV." Both are still low, and make no attempt at mimicking the ride height, or even ease of entry and exit, offered by crossovers and SUVs. They are also a fair bit more expensive than the preceding generation.

 

It's almost as though Honda is saying, "If you really want a car, we'll give you a low-slung one, and you'll pay more for the extra equipment and more deluxe interior.'" Perhaps this has influenced Ford's strategy...?

Q3 Pre-tax result for Nth America"

Ford - $1.9 Billion

Toyota - $500 Million

The big difference between the two is F Series sales, something Toyota failed at miserably.

 

The Fusion had been selling well. The real problem here has been the lack of anything that looks new. Ford could, however, discontinue the North American Taurus, and simply consolidate its passenger car offerings around the Focus and Fusion (with the Mustang catering to its loyal audience).

Fields delaying car product sales was based on a predicted industry wide slowdown that didn't happen.

I wonder if a larger Focus will draw more mid sized customers and release a few more compact buyers

for Ecosport and small C Utility......that would give Ford reason to mix merge Fusion and Taurus segments.

[jpd80]

Packaging for the Escape has been stupid ever since the 2013 model came out.

Have you ever noticed that the vehicles with the most ordering options tend to be the real movers and shakers

 

I noticed that Hackett never once mentioned the ordering complexity that surrounds F150,

That build complexity seems less of an issue when you're making bucket loads of cash...

[rperez817]

Regarding the Chevrolet Malibu - hasn't that been somewhat of a sales dud since the new generation arrived? Has it really been "turning any heads" away from more profitable crossovers and SUVs?

 

No sir. Malibu U.S. sales in 2016 nearly reached 228,000. That's the highest sales figure the nameplate achieved in the 21st century. Like many other midsize sedan models, Malibu sales declined in 2017 up to the end of November. But it's still on track to reach 180,000 units for the whole year. That figure is comparable to Malibu sales in 2004 and 2008, two years corresponding to a redesign. Also, GM dramatically cut fleet sales of Malibu with the new 2016 model, and cut them even more in 2017.

 

Chevrolet crossover and SUV sales have been stable or growing in the past couple years, and Chevrolet's retail market share has been increasing. So Malibu hasn't been turning customers away from crossovers and SUVs.

[jpd80]

Quick question, did the 2016 Malibu sales figures also include sales of the Fleet only Malibu Limited from earlier in the year?

[rmc523]

Quick question, did the 2016 Malibu sales figures also include sales of the Fleet only Malibu Limited from earlier in the year?

 

Probably.

[rperez817]

Quick question, did the 2016 Malibu sales figures also include sales of the Fleet only Malibu Limited from earlier in the year?

 

Yes sir, I agree with rmc523. New Malibu sales began in late 2015, but Chevrolet continued selling remaining Malibu Limited models into the early part of 2016.

[jpd80]

OK, here's something from left field, I started looking at which other North American plants produce CD4 based products,

Oakville and Flat Rock. A change is coming at Oaville, Flex and MKT are probably not going to continue on much longer.

so, what it Fusion and Mondeo go to Oakville to service US, Europe and ROW markets, like it does with the Edge...

 

That would clear the way for Flat Rock to continue as now,maybe pick up MKZ successor and stay a slow speed plant.

but with a bit more aligned product..

Edited December 16, 2017 by jpd80

[2b2]

^ wouldn't that require Fomoco to CARE about a(ny) market other than China & the F-series?

But I think the point would be that with fewer option combinations, oddities like that wouldn't happen.

 

SE comes with this this, and this.

SEL adds this and that as standard, with a few options.

Titanium comes with most things standard, with maybe one or two options.

my fear is that, like statistics can be Made-To-Mean whatever the boss (or wisest-guy) wants,

imho it'll be very hard to quantify accurately what changes in Choice-VARIABLES really mean in terms of definitely-influenced sales

so

easier to screw things(pkgs/opts) up and blame the loss of sales on OTHER then the screw-up:

"oh the market indicates..."

• Have you ever noticed that the vehicles with the most ordering options tend to be the real movers and shakers

 

• I noticed that Hackett never once mentioned the ordering complexity that surrounds F150,

That build complexity seems less of an issue when you're making bucket loads of cash...

• chicken/egg, tail/dog? to a degree, more choice OUGHT TO help volume, But ALSO:

• vice-versa:

• IF volume is already enormous... I tend to imagine a certain minimum number for EVERY configuration Over-All -or- perhaps a minimum-required choicing then ADD another choice for each 50k(guess) sales?

Edited December 16, 2017 by 2b2

[Harley Lover]

OK, here's something from left field, I started looking at which other North American plants produce CD4 based products,

Oakville and Flat Rock. A change is coming at Oaville, Flex and MKT are probably not going to continue on much longer.

so, what it Fusion and Mondeo go to Oakville to service US, Europe and ROW markets, like it does with the Edge...

 

That would clear the way for Flat Rock to continue as now,maybe pick up MKZ successor and stay a slow speed plant.

but with a bit more aligned product..

 

How many products migrate to CD6? Could it be possible that Oakville becomes a CD6 plant (in line with your idea), along with FRAP? Is current thought that Mustang will migrate to a RWD version of CD6 in its next iteration, or will its chassis remain bespoke (perhaps finally getting a Lincoln cousin)?

[akirby]

I’m convinced the next Mustang will be CD6 based to share more parts. I think Edge/MKX can go either way. Wouldn’t surprise me if it stayed CD4 at least for a few more years.

[Harley Lover]

That's a good point about Edge/Nautilus (wink) - if indeed CD6 has designed in hybrid or PIH capability, at some point Edge/Nautilus should get that capability too, probably at the next redesign.

[fuzzymoomoo]

That's a good point about Edge/Nautilus (wink) - if indeed CD6 has designed in hybrid or PIH capability, at some point Edge/Nautilus should get that capability too, probably at the next redesign.

I think its pretty clear based on what Ford has been saying that eventually every model they offer (except for Heavy Trucks and maybe Super Duty) will at the very least have a hybrid option.

[Bob Rosadini]

"Statistics 101..How to Lie W

 

^ wouldn't that require Fomoco to CARE about a(ny) market other than China & the F-series?

my fear is that, like statistics can be Made-To-Mean whatever the boss (or wisest-guy) wants,

imho it'll be very hard to quantify accurately what changes in Choice-VARIABLES really mean in terms of definitely-influenced sales

so

easier to screw things(pkgs/opts) up and blame the loss of sales on OTHER then the screw-up:

"oh the market indicates..."

• chicken/egg, tail/dog? to a degree, more choice OUGHT TO help volume, But ALSO:

• vice-versa:

• IF volume is already enormous... I tend to imagine a certain minimum number for EVERY configuration Over-All -or- perhaps a minimum-required choicing then ADD another choice for each 50k(guess) sales?

 

"Statistics 101..How to Lie With Numbers"

 

In any case, I hated the thought that when I replace my SHO and still want a 4 dr. sedan, my choice would carry a "made in Mexico" tag. Looks like Hackett is trying to make that seem like a better option

[fuzzymoomoo]

"Statistics 101..How to Lie W

 

 

"Statistics 101..How to Lie With Numbers"

 

In any case, I hated the thought that when I replace my SHO and still want a 4 dr. sedan, my choice would carry a "made in Mexico" tag. Looks like Hackett is trying to make that seem like a better option

as much as my fellow union brothers would hate it, I would rather buy a car made in Mexico than China.

[Pioneer]

as much as my fellow union brothers would hate it, I would rather buy a car made in Mexico than China.

I will buy a foreign branded vehicle made in the US before I buy a Ford made outside of the US and Canada.

 

You hear that, Hackett? The Civic is looking like my next car in 5 years. Steelcase logic isn't going to work at Ford. People don't care where their office equipment is made.

[silvrsvt]

You hear that, Hackett? The Civic is looking like my next car in 5 years. Steelcase logic isn't going to work at Ford. People don't care where their office equipment is made.

 

I'd say given the opportunity, the vast majority of people won't care where their car is built, because they will be buying trucks/CUVs made in the US instead.

 

I'm not a fan of it either, but given how the market is going, it make sense, from a business standpoint to build sedans where they are in demand.

[The Handler]

 

How many products migrate to CD6? Could it be possible that Oakville becomes a CD6 plant (in line with your idea), along with FRAP? Is current thought that Mustang will migrate to a RWD version of CD6 in its next iteration, or will its chassis remain bespoke (perhaps finally getting a Lincoln cousin)?

I don't really see a need for RWD cars other than the Mustang. I can't picture a successful Mustang-based Lincoln sports car.

[jpd80]

I don't really see a need for RWD cars other than the Mustang. I can't picture a successful Mustang-based Lincoln sports car.

the Mustang based Lincoln sports car has been discussed a few times, it wouldn't be that hard to implement

but I suspect that sort of vehicle is way down the priority list.

 

Fusion may be simply changing plants in North America, the only two "open" alternatives are Flat Rock (MKZ?)

and Oakville (Fusion in when Flex and MKT vacates?)

Edited December 16, 2017 by jpd80

[Moosetang]

I don't really see a need for RWD cars other than the Mustang. I can't picture a successful Mustang-based Lincoln sports car.

The conventional wisdom agrees with you. On thenother hand, Kia of all brands has a new RWD sedan. I'm wondering if someone at Ford is thinking the day of the conventional midsize sedan is ending, and maybe it's time to add more enthusiast appeal to the segment to give it a reason to continue.

[SoonerLS]

Have you ever noticed that the vehicles with the most ordering options tend to be the real movers and shakers

 

I noticed that Hackett never once mentioned the ordering complexity that surrounds F150,

That build complexity seems less of an issue when you're making bucket loads of cash...

That build complexity isn't a problem with the F-Series, it's a necessity. There are some people who buy them like cars ("ooh, shiny, seats five, pretty color"), but there are more people who buy them tailored to meet a need. Those people know, f'rinstance, that they want the 3.73 e-locker rear end, EB35 mill, 157" wheelbase, SuperCrew cab, and Max Payload but not Max Tow, and if they can't get that combination, they'll go to Chebbie to get it there.