rmc523 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 It looks more like the GMC Terrain then the traverse to me. Its definitely better than the current edge. Not a fan of the black plastic below the rear window. Should have just made it body color. All the safety features being standard is great. I was hoping for more interior changes but I guess that was expecting a little too much for a refresh. Anyone know when we can expect a new design for interiors on ford vehicles? This style seems to have been around forever. Ford has done minimal changes on interiors during refreshes lately. I guess you don't expect much on a refresh, but I would expect more than the just about nothing we've seen on many of the latest refreshes. It's not the lone reason, just the latest. My Edge has on going annoyances that have never been fixed (it's a rattle trap, the brakes grab with the lightest pressure [looks like there's a TSB for this], the perimeter sensors go off at random times, to the point that turning them off is one of the first things I do, each time I start the car). It's a shame, because if not for those things I'd be really happy with it. I had Fusion loaners for two weeks (When the Edge was in the shop for the above. First week was a 2016, second a 2017, and I found the dial in the 2017 incredibly annoying. It sucks for things that require multiple gear changes, three point turns, parking spots, etc. I don't think the Lincoln push buttons would bother me though. The Flex will be up for replacement soon. While I would LOVE to get another Flex (at over 100k miles it has fewer rattles than our Edge did new, the Flex has been virtually flawless) it's just the design is too old at this point. I'm not a fan of the Explorer really wither. I do like the new Expedition, and we're thinking of getting a camper, so it'll get a look, but the rotary dial is a significant penalty - it's something you touch a lot. Hmm. Well I had no issues with the rotary shifter in the Fusion rental I had for 4-5 days over Thanksgiving. It was intuitive to me, and not much different than the logic of a traditional gear shifter, you just turn it instead of push it forward or back. I'm with you on the Flex. I love mine, and would like to consider another, but it's hard to justify a new one when it's barely changed......and if anything they've cheapened out on the interior since then (black air vent slats on light interior models, window switch surrounds are the same tan color as the surrounding panels, no longer a silver-ish finish, etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Ford has done minimal changes on interiors during refreshes lately. I guess you don't expect much on a refresh, but I would expect more than the just about nothing we've seen on many of the latest refreshes. The IP for the 2015 Focus refresh was changed kind of a lot, especially the center stack. Thats ultimately why we chose to get a 15 over a massively discounted 14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 The IP for the 2015 Focus refresh was changed kind of a lot, especially the center stack. Thats ultimately why we chose to get a 15 over a massively discounted 14. Any refresh since then has seen minimal interior changes, though. I guess Escape's center console changed, but otherwise there's been little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) I for one have NO idea how most afford a car anymore.... Most people don't. The market would be extremely different if cars were sold for cash instead of the payment games most play these days. Considering how easy it is to get a dead-nuts reliable piece of transportation for $5000 nowadays, ANY new car (even a new Kia) is a substantial luxury. A new car is an image thing for a lot of people, enough to go into significant debt over. I'm not sure what that says about our society but it's not good. Personally, I could afford a new car. But it's a matter of opportunity cost for that chunk of cash - what else could I do with the money. That behind the case, an automaker is going to have to build something pretty spectacular to get me interested. Ford's got the right parts currently, they just haven't combined them into the right package yet. The Focus ST was close, just need it in something big enough for a family. Edited January 12, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 People get caught up in low interest loans without seeing how much cash incentive they may be losing. Industry is levelled out on SAAR and being propelled by easy finance and getting as many customer int new financed vehicles as possible. You just know that something external to the market could knock it All down in a very short time....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 It's not just the zero interest loans. It's a complete change of mindset. Once people start thinking in terms of monthly payments, the total cost isn't important if they've convinced themselves they can scrape by on the payment each month. The problem with that thinking is how fast cars depreciate. Taking on debt for a house, business, or education - things that have a reasonable chance of paying dividends on the investment is one thing. Taking on debt for a car that you're going to drive around in salt and slush and be horribly upside down on in 18 months is a completely different thing. I don't think the industry would sell half as many cars if people actually had to write a $40k check for their new crossover. That would be catastrophic for the industry so I guess let's hope it doesn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Man, this thread has pretty much been bitching and moaning about a trim level we really dont know that much about. There are a lot of unknown factors regarding the performance of the ST, and lets be clear, this isnt an RS version. I actually like this refresh, and find it more attractive than the previous version. It has a more unique look than before. Im glad the light bar is gone considering Lincoln uses it. Regarding entry level performance, the Fiesta isnt gone yet. Perhaps it will be replaced with a performance version of the Ecosport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I was hoping that with the uptune to 335HP, matching the "Nautilus" , Lincoln could (hopefully), up tune there's a bit as well so Lincoln has the HP advantage. If I recall correctly, didn't they detune the Edge engine at the last refresh to keep the MKX ahead in power? Seems like they will be stepping on the MKX toes. All the more reason it needs the 3.0. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 If I recall correctly, didn't they detune the Edge engine at the last refresh to keep the MKX ahead in power? Seems like they will be stepping on the MKX toes. All the more reason it needs the 3.0. They didn’t retune it. Edge uses the 2.0eb and 3.5NA while MKX gets the 3.7NA and 2.7EB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 They didn’t retune it. Edge uses the 2.0eb and 3.5NA while MKX gets the 3.7NA and 2.7EB. Nautilus dropped the 3.7 for the 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 It's not just the zero interest loans. It's a complete change of mindset. Once people start thinking in terms of monthly payments, the total cost isn't important if they've convinced themselves they can scrape by on the payment each month. The problem with that thinking is how fast cars depreciate. Taking on debt for a house, business, or education - things that have a reasonable chance of paying dividends on the investment is one thing. Taking on debt for a car that you're going to drive around in salt and slush and be horribly upside down on in 18 months is a completely different thing. I don't think the industry would sell half as many cars if people actually had to write a $40k check for their new crossover. That would be catastrophic for the industry so I guess let's hope it doesn't happen. All depends on how much a person puts down on a car and most of the time your required to take gap insurance. This also goes back to why subscription cars are going to become a thing-the average car payment is $480 or bucks a month. I think Volvo or someone is offering a subscription model that includes everything (insurance/maintenance/etc) That is around $500, which might be attractive to people Another thing to consider-even if you put down $10K on a car that costs around $40K-your monthly payments aren't going to be all that different either. I found that out when I went to buy my SHO-it didn't even make a difference of $100 bucks a month, so I decided to keep 5K for myself. Cars also aren't depreciationing as fast as they did 20 years ago. Just as an example...I bought a more or less loaded 1998 Mustang GT for around 20K brand new after discounts. I sold it 4 years later for about $4-5K. I bought another Mustang GT in 2006 for $24K after discounts (A Plan for both)....I just sold it last year with 120K miles on it and I got $6500 for it..and ones with lower mileage in good shape like mine went for 2-3K more than that! Other cars might lose their values quicker, but to lose 75% in 4 years really doesn't happen anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 All of which is a worlds worth of difference in cost of ownership vs buying a 10 year old vehicle for $4000 and driving it for 10 years and 200,000 miles for nothing more than the cost of a few parts and junkyard pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Lots of opinions on here about the right way to buy a car and how much you should spend. Lets just say its different for different people. If cost were the only variable used cars would be the way to go. Variables such as credit score, need, reliability, want (etc) all factor in. I could have spent half of what I did on my Fusion on a new Nissan Versa. Why didnt I? I didnt want to drive an uncomfortable, unreliable crap box, that I would of hated driving on long trips with my son. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Back on topic, does anyone know what changes were made for the 2.0? Where did that extra 5 hp come from? I am sure it could be a tune but was curious if they changed anything physically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Back on topic, does anyone know what changes were made for the 2.0? Where did that extra 5 hp come from? I am sure it could be a tune but was curious if they changed anything physically. I doubt they physically changed anything. 5hp isnt that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) slvrsvt....10000 additional down even at 0 % for 60 months is $166.70 a month difference on a payment....where did you figure it only made $100 difference?....96 month loan? And depreciation varies by vehicle...Ford is getting stung by Fusions coming off 3 year leases right now and the 18 residuals reflect that....payments are approx. $100 a month higher on the same cars comparing from 3 years ago. Edited January 12, 2018 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 All depends on how much a person puts down on a car and most of the time your required to take gap insurance. This also goes back to why subscription cars are going to become a thing-the average car payment is $480 or bucks a month. I think Volvo or someone is offering a subscription model that includes everything (insurance/maintenance/etc) That is around $500, which might be attractive to people Another thing to consider-even if you put down $10K on a car that costs around $40K-your monthly payments aren't going to be all that different either. I found that out when I went to buy my SHO-it didn't even make a difference of $100 bucks a month, so I decided to keep 5K for myself. slvrsvt....10000 additional down even at 0 % for 60 months is $166.70 a month difference on a payment....where did you figure it only made $100 difference?....96 month loan? And depreciation varies by vehicle...Ford is getting stung by Fusions coming off 3 year leases right now and the 18 residuals reflect that....payments are approx. $100 a month higher on the same cars comparing from 3 years ago. He commented on 10k but him personally was $5k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 blnsmke...not to nit pick, but that's not how it read...."10000 down didn't even make a difference of $100 a month, so I kept 5k for myself. "...no biggie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 It's not just the zero interest loans. It's a complete change of mindset. Once people start thinking in terms of monthly payments, the total cost isn't important if they've convinced themselves they can scrape by on the payment each month. The problem with that thinking is how fast cars depreciate. Taking on debt for a house, business, or education - things that have a reasonable chance of paying dividends on the investment is one thing. Taking on debt for a car that you're going to drive around in salt and slush and be horribly upside down on in 18 months is a completely different thing. I don't think the industry would sell half as many cars if people actually had to write a $40k check for their new crossover. That would be catastrophic for the industry so I guess let's hope it doesn't happen. It really depends on the type of vehicle you are referring too. Superdutys hold their value extremely well these days. My 2015 F350 Platinum that is in mint condition (always garaged and washed several times a week) was $62k OTD.. I could turn around and sell it for $50-$55k right now. Pay cash or pay 1.74% over 72 months and keep my money in my accounts to make more then that interest rate. And to say that I've only lost $7-$10k over almost 4 years is really good. I was only upside down for the first 7 months of ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 trucks resale is CRAZY....Fords residual on the explorer seem to be bang on as well.....but heres the reality....I don't know how much you put down, but if you financed 62k you've got a payment North of $1000 a month......and we now have several vehicle that hover around that pricing mark. I may be a tad over on the 60k for this new Edge ( most likely loaded it will be 52-53k....) but I for one will NOT spend that sort of dollar amount per month on an auto...think I'm the only one?...call me tight, but I wont spend over $450 a month on a car, I have several other expenditures more important. So, is Ford slowly alienating affordability...nice products yes, but as mentioned, the pricier the car, the smaller the market. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 It really depends on the type of vehicle you are referring too. Superdutys hold their value extremely well these days. My 2015 F350 Platinum that is in mint condition (always garaged and washed several times a week) was $62k OTD.. I could turn around and sell it for $50-$55k right now. Pay cash or pay 1.74% over 72 months and keep my money in my accounts to make more then that interest rate. And to say that I've only lost $7-$10k over almost 4 years is really good. I was only upside down for the first 7 months of ownership. I don't know where you're located at, but here in the salt belt 4 year old trucks struggle to bring 50% of original retail due to the fact that they're crusty underneath and half of them have perforation starting in a few spots. By the time they're 8 years old most are bonafide rust buckets. I really don't know how someone signs up for $1000/month payments and then proceeds to go slosh around in the salty mess we call roads this time of year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 slvrsvt....10000 additional down even at 0 % for 60 months is $166.70 a month difference on a payment....where did you figure it only made $100 difference?....96 month loan? And depreciation varies by vehicle...Ford is getting stung by Fusions coming off 3 year leases right now and the 18 residuals reflect that....payments are approx. $100 a month higher on the same cars comparing from 3 years ago. That's crazy. No wonder Fusion sales are declining so much more than competitors. Obviously the styling affects this too - higher price+basically the same looks=no sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 They didn’t retune it. Edge uses the 2.0eb and 3.5NA while MKX gets the 3.7NA and 2.7EB. I meant the 2.7. It puts out 315HP in the Edge and 335HP in the MKX. I recall reading people questioning why the difference from the same engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I meant the 2.7. It puts out 315HP in the Edge and 335HP in the MKX. I recall reading people questioning why the difference from the same engine. Could be HP rating with 87 octane vs. 92 also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Nautilus dropped the 3.7 for the 2.0. I know but he was talking about the current Edge and MKX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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