Anthony Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/business/ford-f150-aluminum-trucks.html Ford expected aluminum to give its truck a critical advantage in an era of tougher fuel-economy standards and rising gasoline prices. The company also thought the truck would pull customers away from General Motors and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, and command prices high enough to increase Ford’s profit, despite aluminum’s higher cost. But the revolutionary switch seems to be giving Ford less of an edge than it had hoped. With moderate gasoline prices, fuel economy is no longer a persuasive factor for many truck buyers. While sales are brisk, F-Series trucks — including the F-150 and the brawnier Super Duty — have only slightly increased their share of the full-size pickup truck segment since the aluminum models arrived. Their share is actually lower than it was in 2013. Moreover, the lightweight metal has become one of several factors weighing down Ford’s profitability. In 2017, the company’s income in North America fell 17 percent, in part because of rising steel and aluminum prices. Edited March 2, 2018 by Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 Of course we know that aluminum AND steel prices have gone up.... But it makes you wonder if aluminum is going to be a key part of the next generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Record sales. Record ATPs. $6B-$8B annual profit. Some folks are hard to please. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 But it makes you wonder if aluminum is going to be a key part of the next generation. Only if it makes a huge impact on profitability of the vehicle...and there is no crystal ball for fuel prices. IMO they'd be stupid to abandon it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Record sales. Record ATPs. $6B-$8B annual profit. Some folks are hard to please. But market share is less then in 2013 with record sales?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 You sure that article wasn't written by GM? Actually, Wall street speculators. The quote below instantly lost at me at the credibility. If they understood Ford's approach to the F150 is that it is constantly being updated and improved. We don't even know how good or bad the RAM or Silverado will be. Also, Chevy uses aluminum sparingly because I think they don't want to go all in (so they can still use the bear commercials) and cost is cheaper. “Ford will have the oldest truck on the market, so it’s not going to get easier from here,” Mr. Lache said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I want to see a 2014 Silverado, RAM, and F150 coming from the rust belt. The long term durability of the aluminum could be a huge selling point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 But market share is less then in 2013 with record sales?! I guess maybe because Colorado/Canyon returned? I like how the article tries to blame decreasing profitability on F-series being made out of aluminum, as if that's the problem at Ford. While the rising cost of aluminum is a concern, Ford has much larger problems, and F-series is NOT one of them. What a stupid article. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 https://twitter.com/mikemartinez_an/status/969280481354272768 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 https://twitter.com/mikemartinez_an/status/969280481354272768 Is that true? Reuss was on CNBC yesterday for the Denali unveiling and he said 90% for steel. Then kept touting why they didn't go with all aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 But market share is less then in 2013 with record sales?! Possible if the overall market increased more (especially if they’re including Canyorado). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Possible if the overall market increased more (especially if they’re including Canyorado). However, that doesn’t mean Ford could have gotten that additional market share with F series. You’re not going to get loyal GM or RAM fans to buy a Ford no matter what. And especially if the others gained market share by cutting prices or risky financing. I think Ford is in the sweet spot as far as factory capacity, ATPs and sales volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 You sure that article wasn't written by GM? Actually, Wall street speculators. The quote below instantly lost at me at the credibility. If they understood Ford's approach to the F150 is that it is constantly being updated and improved. We don't even know how good or bad the RAM or Silverado will be. Also, Chevy uses aluminum sparingly because I think they don't want to go all in (so they can still use the bear commercials) and cost is cheaper. “Ford will have the oldest truck on the market, so it’s not going to get easier from here,” Mr. Lache said. Yeah its not like the F-150 already hasn't had refresh since it came out and is being constantly updated for the next 2-3 years. I'm assuming we'll see a second gen Alu truck in 2020 or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 But market share is less then in 2013 with record sales?! Ram's sales have increased drastically since then, and has picked up more share than Ford has. Look at the ATP for Ford vs. Ram, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I'm assuming we'll see a second gen Alu truck in 2020 or so Yes, I'm thinking the next one will be a 2021 showing up in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) A lot of the conjecture of market percentage evaporates when you realize that Ford has three truck plants running three shifts and basically selling everything they make at an average of $44,700 Aluminum was not about superior economy, it was about loading up the highly profitable 4x4 crew cabs with as many options as possible without running foul of CAFE. It is by far their most profitable line bar none and in February, F Series sales of +68K outsold the combined total of GM's mid and full sized trucks. The market is starting to cool now, so it will be interesting to see if GM gets the same lift in sales as the AL F series did, I have a feeling that they won't have a "watershed moment" like F series because gm has chosen a more evolutionary path and with that, there's no tech "ace" over Ford. Edited March 2, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Possible if the overall market increased more (especially if theyre including Canyorado). Yet another reason why Ranger should have been brought back 3 years ago 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) Yet another reason why Ranger should have been brought back 3 years ago even if done in 2011, it would have allowed Ford to put Focus production at Cuautitlan instead of Fiesta. but absolutely agree that Ford missed the bus on Mid Sized trucks, we understand why they didn't bring Ranger but that doesn't mean we all liked or agreed with the decision. Edited March 2, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Rams sales increase can be largely based on the absolutely STUPID incentives FCA laid on the truck..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Rams sales increase can be largely based on the absolutely STUPID incentives FCA laid on the truck..... Which makes what Ford has been able to do with F150 even more impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 We're slowly getting closer to 2030. That's the year I'll render my final judgement on the decision to go aluminum with F Series. I find 15 years to be an optimal test period for new automotive tech. Failure or success is usually quite obvious by then. But dayum, that loomnum body sure worked out well on the super duty in the eye candy dept. That's the best looking truck Ford has made since at least 1986, possibly earlier even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Yet another reason why Ranger should have been brought back 3 years ago 3 years ago few people thought it was a good idea. 3 years ago most posters at this site claimed a 7/8 truck would only cannibalize more profitable F-150 sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Yes, I'm thinking the next one will be a 2021 showing up in 2020. Farley said as much. Said the hybrid would arrive in 2020. Yet another reason why Ranger should have been brought back 3 years ago That too would've technically resulted in a lower F-series marketshare. Ford truck sales would've gained, but not F-series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Also, Chevy uses aluminum sparingly because I think they don't want to go all in (so they can still use the bear commercials) and cost is cheaper. That's the sensible approach. Aluminum is a good choice for certain parts of a pickup truck, such as hood, wheels, tailgate, etc. Ford went overboard with aluminum use in F-150. Especially for the bed. The article in the OP is correct. Compared to the costs of using aluminum so extensively, the benefits to Ford and to F-150 customers are not as much as Ford originally expected. Good news is that Ford may have learned their lesson. New 2019 Ranger (my next truck!) uses aluminum appropriately and sparingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 But dayum, that loomnum body sure worked out well on the super duty in the eye candy dept. That's the best looking truck Ford has made since at least 1986, possibly earlier even. I'll just leave these here: Ford went overboard with aluminum use in F-150. Especially for the bed. According to who? GM? I'm fine with the Al bed in mine, as are most folks that are buying these trucks to the tune of about one truck every 36 seconds. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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