Is there a market for a compact pickup?

[J-150]

They also had small trucks like Dodge D50, Mazda B210, Subaru Brat, Datsun 620. Those seem to be what people think we need.

Fields told us we didn't need a truck like this because Ford offered the Fiesta for budget conscious consumers.

 

So...

Edited March 30, 2018 by J-150

[jpd80]

US ranger never grew significantly over its 28 year span. From 83-97 the chassis didn't change at all. In 98 they switched the front suspension to IFS from TTB and stretched the reg cab by 2" in length. From the cab back the frame/chassis of a 1983 is pretty much interchangeable with a 2011.

 

They did "fill out" the body panels in 93 and a little more in 98 but the chassis and interior dimensions didn't change other than the 2" stretch on the reg cab mentioned above. For proof, consider that the 93-94 trucks with the then-new "wider" body have the exact same interior as the 89-92 trucks. All they did was make the doors thicker.

 

1st gen explorer (91-94) was 100% ranger parts for chassis and dash forward (although the front fenders had bigger wheel openings). 2nd gen explorer (95-01) were an update on the 1st gen chassis and introduced the IFS that would eventually make it's way into Ranger in 98. When 3rd gen explorer came out in 2002 with a completely different, unrelated chassis designed to accommodate the 4.6L and IRS, Ford continued to build the 2 door Explorer Sport and Sport Trac on the previous 2nd gen platform which still shared a lot of parts and dimensions with the Ranger.

 

It was the platform divorce in 2002 that sealed the fate of both Explorer and Ranger as by 2010 neither was selling enough to justify it's own platform. If they had still shared a common platform and assembly line, things might have been different. Problem was the ranger platform just wasn't big enough to swallow the mod motor which was the only available V8 at that time and Explorer needed a V8. At the same time the IRS explorer platform was too expensive for Ranger.

 

Just another example of Ford catching wild success, getting to the edge of market domination, and then making a series of bad decisions that blows the whole thing up. At least they always bounce back and the next success is never far away.

Mostly agree with what you said.

The reason Ford US backed away from T6 Ranger was that in 2006 at the kick off meeting,

they expressed a desire to have a truck smaller than the Ranger planned for ROW, that being

too similar in size to the Sport Trac - funny that the BOFs Ranger, Explorer and Sport Trac were

then all cancelled in 2011...

 

Had Ford seized the initiative in 2006 and developed a Ranger for all and an Explorer on T6,

things may have been different but maybe they would have arrived too late to change what

was already happening...

 

Mind you, D3 Explorer did an amazing job of resurrecting declining sales.

Edited March 30, 2018 by jpd80

[jpd80]

Fields told us we didn't need a truck like this because Ford offered the Fiesta for budget conscious consumers.

 

So...

I stopped listening when Derrick Kuzac said Ranger was a 7/8s of an F150,

I understand whay Ford did away with all the BOF Rangers and Explorers

but that doesn't mean we agree with it in a improving market.

[silvrsvt]

It sure didn't help that gas prices in the US a least doubled from 2003 to 2007.

 

Gas prices and the Great Recession helped kill off frame based SUVs and prompted the move to unibody CUV's

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/204740/retail-price-of-gasoline-in-the-united-states-since-1990/

Edited March 30, 2018 by silvrsvt

[ANTAUS]

I think in essence it sounds good, but the perception from customers of what such a "trucklet" can do is what will weight it down. Keep it as a Fiesta based "Courier" for example, just to do regular Home Depot runs and such it's fine. But the consumer now expected another row of seats, a few more doors, to pull this, to pull that, this and that toy, this bedline, this differential, etc.etc. Suddenly you have a truck that could be simple and start at a low price, into something that competes price wise with the Ranger, with the capacity and hauling abilities of a Fiesta hatchback.

 

I do have a friend that has some ear 80's Toyota truck thingy, I call it 'Rusted death trap" and refuse to ride in it, but he likes it's compact dimensions with the occasional "throw things in the bed" lifestyle, whereas he mentioned todays F150 you need a step ladder to grab anything from the truck bed.

[silvrsvt]

My Father In Law jokes around with my dad not to get rid of his 1998 Ranger (they are both 70) because new trucks are so expensive and large.

 

The thing is that automakers aren't going to go back to the days of making $10K stripper special Rangers.

 

A Small CUV can fit 8 feet pieces of molding and lumber (plywood won't work-I tried it with the wife's Escape) and you can get a tarp to put in it if you need to get mulch or move brush to the dump-

 

A small pick would be able to do the same but I wonder about overall length-a useful bed would be about 5ft at minimum and then add that to the back of say an escape based vehicle and it wouldn't be much smaller then a Ranger. I don't think 2 door model would sell.

[T-dubz]

I think to do the compact pickup and make it feasible, you only make it in 4 door and it should have a 4 ft bed with 5ft optional. Keep it about the width of an escape. This is where the designers can also go a little crazy, maybe make it similar to the Santa Cruz pickup concept from hyundai. Parking would be a breeze. Itd be able to fit in any garage, even a compact parking spot. Also they could do the composite bed like the sport trac had, but copy the Ridgelines trunk in the bed feature too.

Edited March 30, 2018 by T-dubz

[ZanatWork]

The biggest truth, to me, is that the Transit Connect fulfills most of the same jobs that a Ranger would, with the added bonus of sheltering the payload from thieves/elements.

My employer is regularly buying Nissan NV2000s (they won't even discuss Ford vehicles after the DCT fiasco with our Fiestas) because they're relatively cheap, fairly rugged/dependable, and versatile. The mini truck market has likely been wounded by the baby work van offerings.

[jpd80]

The moment you make your little compact a four door with a 4 ft o 5 ft bed and the same width as an Escape

your compact vehicle becomes just as long and wide as the T6 Ranger

 

I only say this to point out just how hard it is ti make a usable compact crew cab pick up.

[MKX1960]

The moment you make your little compact a four door with a 4 ft o 5 ft bed and the same width as an Escape

your compact vehicle becomes just as long and wide as the T6 Ranger

 

I only say this to point out just how hard it is ti make a usable compact crew cab pick up.

A regular cab would probably sell better. I see a lot of the older one's here. Nothing rusts here, so people hang onto trucks until they're pretty tired.

[silvrsvt]

A regular cab would probably sell better. I see a lot of the older one's here. Nothing rusts here, so people hang onto trucks until they're pretty tired.

 

Given how the 2 door SUV market basically has gone away and the rarely of full size non super cab type vehicles for personal use...it won't work. That would be a major compromise for most buyers

[Assimilator]

Although I've never been in a T6 Ranger, I have been in all of the newer midsize trucks in the US and it's always striking to me how small the interior feels compared to something like a midsize SUV. The floors are up really high because of the frames so it really feels like your sitting reclined on the floor like a sedan. You can only make a framed truck so small before it's mostly just frame. I'm not a big fan of them for sure and I sympathized with Ford's initial disinterest, but Bronco certainly makes it more understandable.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Assimilator

[jpd80]

Although I've never been in a T6 Ranger, I have been in all of the newer midsize trucks in the US and it's always striking to me how small the interior feels compared to something like a midsize SUV. The floors are up really high because of the frames so it really feels like your sitting reclined on the floor like a sedan. You can only make a framed truck so small before it's mostly just frame. I'm not a big fan of them for sure and I sympathized with Ford's initial disinterest, but Bronco certainly makes it more understandable.

I've had plenty of seat time in a crew cab T6, They have about the same room as an Escape, (between Gen 1 & 2 Sport Trac)

The seats are not as low as some but still cozy enough, I had diesel 2.2 I-4 with 6-speed manual

needs a kick in the guts to get going but not bad on a roll, back seat room is a bit squishy for adults

but Ok for short hops of about 30 mins to an hour, you'd want to stretch your legs after that..

Edited March 31, 2018 by jpd80

[SoonerLS]

Anybody who thinks a "midsize" truck is even remotely close to a full-size truck is just flat-out mistaken. We're talking about differences so big they are measured by the foot instead of inches.

 

My RCSB '13 F-150 has a 126" wheelbase.

 

Just sayin'.

[jpd80]

My RCSB '13 F-150 has a 126" wheelbase.

 

Just sayin'.

Three across seating in a RCSB F150 makes a valid case and time will tell if those Crew Cab Rangers

sell like Colorado does without eating into those remaining SC F150s.

[LSchicago]

I do believe there is a market for compact trucks (any 90's compact size, not the huge mid size trucks we have today), mostly single cab. Making a compact into a crew cab would kill the bed size. Think Exterminators, parts delivery, young drivers first truck, etc. There has to be room for one model like this. Rangers stopped selling when F150's got better fuel economy. Put a little 1.6 Eco in them, and they would go.

[silvrsvt]

I do believe there is a market for compact trucks (any 90's compact size, not the huge mid size trucks we have today), mostly single cab. Making a compact into a crew cab would kill the bed size. Think Exterminators, parts delivery, young drivers first truck, etc. There has to be room for one model like this. Rangers stopped selling when F150's got better fuel economy. Put a little 1.6 Eco in them, and they would go.

 

That market is more or less served by the Transit Connect now.

[RadicalX]

Here in Brazil, there is already an SUV-derived pickup market. And it's a growing market. Many are buying pickups derived from subcompact SUVs

[RadicalX]

[RadicalX]

[RadicalX]

Will Ford lose this opportunity just as it missed the successful explosion of Trax and HR-V without competing? The next segment that will pop up is from subcompact pickup trucks

[CurtisH]

That market is more or less served by the Transit Connect now.

 

My brother has one Transit Connect in his fleet and another one on order. The first one replaced a Ranger. I believe the second one is also replacing a Ranger.

[Sevensecondsuv]

Would he have just bought more rangers if they were still available? Not the larger, more expensive new ranger, the old white fleet special...

[SoonerLS]

I do believe there is a market for compact trucks (any 90's compact size, not the huge mid size trucks we have today), mostly single cab. Making a compact into a crew cab would kill the bed size. Think Exterminators, parts delivery, young drivers first truck, etc. There has to be room for one model like this. Rangers stopped selling when F150's got better fuel economy. Put a little 1.6 Eco in them, and they would go.

I was actually thinking about this earlier today, and it seems to me that the market segment that could be served by something the size of the Transit Connect but not by a minivan is a pretty small slice--mainly exterminators, and maybe smaller landscapers or lawn care companies, but a lot of them are already served by the used F-150 market.

 

I just don't see a market for a truck much smaller than the new Ranger, at least in the US. If it was a market of any size at all, you'd think that somebody would be selling one (as bzcat noted, many automakers sell them elsewhere), yet nobody is.

[twintornados]

...I just don't see a market for a truck much smaller than the new Ranger, at least in the US. If it was a market of any size at all, you'd think that somebody would be selling one (as bzcat noted, many automakers sell them elsewhere), yet nobody is.

.

Mahindra keeps threatening sales but then it just fizzles...