Detroit losing more ground on CUV

[silvrsvt]

In the grand scheme of things, Ford will have the Ranger, new Escape and Explorer out by this time next year-things aren't as awful as you think they are.

[rperez817]

Why is the older Explorer platform kicking the crap out of the Honda Pilot (that was redesigned from the ground up 2 years ago)?

 

Ford dumps Explorers like crazy into fleets. If you consider only retail sales Jan - July 2018, Pilot and Explorer sales are about even.

 

Don't know why any real consumer in the market for a 3-row crossover would choose a tired, outdated Explorer whose platform is 20 years old over practically anything else in the segment. I guess the Explorer name remains strong. Still, Honda Pilot sales (which are almost 100% retail) are up 38.5% Jan - July 2018 compared to Jan - July 2017. Explorer sales are down 4.5%.

[silvrsvt]

 

Ford dumps Explorers like crazy into fleets. If you consider only retail sales Jan - July 2018, Pilot and Explorer sales are about even.

 

Don't know why any real consumer in the market for a 3-row crossover would choose a tired, outdated Explorer whose platform is 20 years old over practically anything else in the segment. I guess the Explorer name remains strong. Still, Honda Pilot sales (which are almost 100% retail) are up 38.5% Jan - July 2018 compared to Jan - July 2017. Explorer sales are down 4.5%.

 

So we are going to play the fleet thing again?! Really?

 

The Explorer is being sold into Municipality fleets-not rentals.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

So we are going to play the fleet thing again?! Really?

 

The Explorer is being sold into Municipality fleets-not rentals.

BUT BUT BUT

 

FLEET SALES BAD!!!

 

 

FLEEEEET SAAAALEESS!

[akirby]

 

Which company has the largest "war chest" of cash?

 

Ford has around $18B, Toyota I think has around $26B but that depends on the currency conversion rates and I'm not sure if those are apples to apples comparisons.

 

Suffice it to say Ford has a healthy cash flow.

[akirby]

 

Ford dumps Explorers like crazy into fleets. If you consider only retail sales Jan - July 2018, Pilot and Explorer sales are about even.

 

Don't know why any real consumer in the market for a 3-row crossover would choose a tired, outdated Explorer whose platform is 20 years old over practically anything else in the segment. I guess the Explorer name remains strong. Still, Honda Pilot sales (which are almost 100% retail) are up 38.5% Jan - July 2018 compared to Jan - July 2017. Explorer sales are down 4.5%.

 

Better styling and features. You can't get a Honda Pilot with 350 lb/ft of torque.

[rmc523]

 

Ford dumps Explorers like crazy into fleets. If you consider only retail sales Jan - July 2018, Pilot and Explorer sales are about even.

 

Don't know why any real consumer in the market for a 3-row crossover would choose a tired, outdated Explorer whose platform is 20 years old over practically anything else in the segment. I guess the Explorer name remains strong. Still, Honda Pilot sales (which are almost 100% retail) are up 38.5% Jan - July 2018 compared to Jan - July 2017. Explorer sales are down 4.5%.

 

You give people WAAAAY too much credit regarding the platform - most have no clue. I bet you could tell most people this year's model was on a new platform and they'd believe you.

[rperez817]

 

You give people WAAAAY too much credit regarding the platform - most have no clue. I bet you could tell most people this year's model was on a new platform and they'd believe you.

 

Good point rmc523 sir, some consumers don't know details about platforms in the automotive industry. But a quick test drive of a current gen Ford Explorer will make it clear that it looks, feels ancient. It's a vehicle in desperate need of a redesign from the ground up. The well recognized Explorer name can carry it only so far. Fortunately the brand new Explorer coming in a few years appears very promising.

[akirby]

 

Good point rmc523 sir, some consumers don't know details about platforms in the automotive industry. But a quick test drive of a current gen Ford Explorer will make it clear that it looks, feels ancient. It's a vehicle in desperate need of a redesign from the ground up. The well recognized Explorer name can carry it only so far. Fortunately the brand new Explorer coming in a few years appears very promising.

 

And once again your biases and preferences aren't necessarily the same as the average buyer. You could say the same thing about the previous gen Corolla and Camry - dead last in any comparison test yet they led their markets in sales.

 

All the average buyer looks at is styling, price, features and maybe MPG. They don't care about platforms or how old it is as long as it looks good and has a decent price.

[Deanh]

Rperez….Ford does NOT dump Explorers into fleet....not in the slightest....their fleet sales on Explorers are injected into the Police and municipalities , a segment they own. THATS not dumping.....and the D4 platform has had significant changes since inception so twisting that into stating its 20 years old is somewhat inaccurate.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Deanh

[Assimilator]

The Explorer has some pretty ancient bones and it shows (Dynamics, Interior packaging, weight, Safety Design), but they've kept it feature rich and relatively modern with the best looking design in the segment. Ford put its priorities in the right spot on that product and you can't fault them for making the right decisions. It's a massive success. Better substance is certainly on the way and I'm certainly excited.

[rmc523]

 

Good point rmc523 sir, some consumers don't know details about platforms in the automotive industry. But a quick test drive of a current gen Ford Explorer will make it clear that it looks, feels ancient. It's a vehicle in desperate need of a redesign from the ground up. The well recognized Explorer name can carry it only so far. Fortunately the brand new Explorer coming in a few years appears very promising.

 

Have you driven one? It's not as terrible as you're making it out to be.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I really hope they take lessons learned with this generation Explorer (and Edge for that matter) and apply them to the new Escape.

[Harley Lover]

They don't care about platforms or how old it is as long as it looks good and has a decent price.

 

But those are the exact reasons trotted out around here to explain falling sales for Explorer, Escape, Edge, etc..

 

Edit: Not fair to lump Explorer in with the others, its sales are up.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Harley Lover

[rperez817]

 

Have you driven one? It's not as terrible as you're making it out to be.

 

Yes sir, I drove a 2016 Explorer Limited V6 rental vehicle when visiting Baltimore a couple years back. It wasn't horrible, but the chassis felt flimsy and there were some rattles in the back. Ride quality wasn't well controlled on rough pavement. I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee rental the week before. The GC felt a lot more solid and it handled bumpy streets better.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Lol youre basing an entire model on a rental car, knowing full well people beat the holy hell out of them

[jcartwright99]

Lol youre basing an entire model on a rental car, knowing full well people beat the holy hell out of them

 

I know I do! My boss and I got a Buick Rendevous stuck at an abandoned construction site next to our hotel. Luckily, a guy in Jeep in the hotel parking lot who was watching the whole thing had tow straps. Never....repeat...NEVER buy a rental car.

Edited August 2, 2018 by jcartwright99

[SoonerLS]

But those are the exact reasons trotted out around here to explain falling sales for Explorer, Escape, Edge, etc..

 

Edit: Not fair to lump Explorer in with the others, its sales are up.

The main reason trotted out around here for the sales slides is generally that Ford hasn't updated the styling or the content, which is something that even the least car-aware buyer will notice.

[bzcat]

Explorer is the exception to the rule. Sales has held up relatively well for such an old product. And I'm not talking about D4 platform (which is about 20 years old if you go by the Volvo P2 intro date of 1998)... I'm talking about Explorer being a 8 years old vehicle (went on sale in August 2010). Ford did a good job of refreshing the powertrain and styling.

 

But it is the exception. The rule for Ford is everything is too old and too stale and sales are already past the declining stage and entering the free fall stage. . Escape should have been replaced 18 months ago when the new CX-5 and CR-V went on sale. C-Max should have been turned into a CUV 3 years ago (add cladding!). Fusion should be updated but instead it will live on unchanged for 3 more years. Focus skipped the much needed mid cycle powertrain update. The list goes on.

 

I left Edge out because it just got a mid cycle update. Ford probably should be moving the replacement date up to 2020 instead of 2022. It went on sale in mid 2014 so it will be 6 years old by mid 2020... 6 years is in my opinion the max model cycle in any competitive market. 5 years is better but I'm being realistic. Ford's typical 7 or 8 years model cycle is really hurting its sales momentum when competitors don't ever miss a beat.

[sullynd]

I thought the 2015 Edge went on sale in 2015? I bought mine in July and its early production (and shows)

[fuzzymoomoo]

I thought the 2015 Edge went on sale in 2015? I bought mine in July and its early production (and shows)

It did. Production started in like February of 2015 and it was a very short model year.

[akirby]

I thought the 2015 Edge went on sale in 2015? I bought mine in July and its early production (and shows)

Job 1 was very late 2014 and I don’t think they went on sale until 1Q15.

[silvrsvt]

But it is the exception. The rule for Ford is everything is too old and too stale and sales are already past the declining stage and entering the free fall stage. . Escape should have been replaced 18 months ago when the new CX-5 and CR-V went on sale. C-Max should have been turned into a CUV 3 years ago (add cladding!). Fusion should be updated but instead it will live on unchanged for 3 more years. Focus skipped the much needed mid cycle powertrain update. The list goes on.

 

I left Edge out because it just got a mid cycle update. Ford probably should be moving the replacement date up to 2020 instead of 2022. It went on sale in mid 2014 so it will be 6 years old by mid 2020... 6 years is in my opinion the max model cycle in any competitive market. 5 years is better but I'm being realistic. Ford's typical 7 or 8 years model cycle is really hurting its sales momentum when competitors don't ever miss a beat.

 

I think the big issue was the great platform consolation that happened 5-7 years ago then not actually making a huge improvement in MCEs that the products needed.

[silvrsvt]

I really hope they take lessons learned with this generation Explorer (and Edge for that matter) and apply them to the new Escape.

 

To be honest with you-I've spent alot of time in a 2013 and a 2017 Escape the past month or so (Broke my leg, so was depending on my parents or wife to get me around) and even though the Escape didn't change that much looks wise-there is a whole host of small improvements done to the 2017 vs 2013, that I like my Wife's SE better the 2013 Ti my parents have. It much like going from the 2005 to 2010 Escape.

 

The Small SUV market has change and the Escape needs to address those changes better, since its an older product from 2008 or so when it started off as the Kuga.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

To be honest with you-I've spent alot of time in a 2013 and a 2017 Escape the past month or so (Broke my leg, so was depending on my parents or wife to get me around) and even though the Escape didn't change that much looks wise-there is a whole host of small improvements done to the 2017 vs 2013, that I like my Wife's SE better the 2013 Ti my parents have. It much like going from the 2005 to 2010 Escape.

 

The Small SUV market has change and the Escape needs to address those changes better, since its an older product from 2008 or so when it started off as the Kuga.

I was talking about interior packaging. Theres a whole lot of what not to do in the current Explorer.