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New mid-sized "Outback" style crossover

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

I still think Mexico will be needed for Escape/Corsair overflow at some point.

Louisville is only running 2 shifts right now 

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28 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Louisville is only running 2 shifts right now 

Back in May, Louisville still managed to knock out over 28,000 vehicles even on two shifts,
still pretty impressive production  for a model supposed to be in "wind down" to replacement...

Escape.....23,346
Corsair.......5,138
TOTAL.....28,484

At peak production of three shifts, Louisville was putting out over 43,000 vehicles a month,
when China starts producing own Corsairs, maybe Louisville will just run say 2 x 10 hr shifts
instead of three shifts? That would give about 36,000 vehicles, about 33,000 Escapes/ 3,000 Corsair?

Edited by jpd80

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Awesome, Ford is replacing the Fusion sedan with an "Outback fighter". They had better hope that they can find new buyers, as most Outback owners are of a certain demographic and political persuasion that are unlikely to buy a Ford. In related news, VW is dropping the Golf Alltrack which tried to appeal to similar buyers

 

Edited by AGR

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43 minutes ago, AGR said:

Awesome, Ford is replacing the Fusion sedan with an "Outback fighter". They had better hope that they can find new buyers, as most Outback owners are of a certain demographic and political persuasion that are unlikely to buy a Ford. In related news, VW is dropping the Golf Alltrack which tried to appeal to similar buyers

I think the "Outback fighter" tag is a poor analogy of what Ford is doing, they're actually moving the car in the direction
buyers are headed and sure, it's mightn't be a perfect fit but as incremental sales going forward, it will do fine.

Currently Mondeo is supplied as a station wagon and a 5-door hatchback, I wonder if Ford could do a clever merge
of the two and come up with a crossover that s versatile but doesn't look as clumsy as a jacked u stationwagon
although, Mondeo S/W jacked up may not be so bad...

2019-Ford-Mondeo-Wagon-Hybrid-side.jpg

we93.jpg

Edited by jpd80

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8 hours ago, AGR said:

Awesome, Ford is replacing the Fusion sedan with an "Outback fighter". They had better hope that they can find new buyers, as most Outback owners are of a certain demographic and political persuasion that are unlikely to buy a Ford. In related news, VW is dropping the Golf Alltrack which tried to appeal to similar buyers

Not trying to conquest subaru faithful, just like Bronco is not going to convert Wranglerphiles.   It's about offering something similar for Ford fans and for folks who aren't brand loyal and (more importantly) isn't competing in an overcrowded lowest price wins commodity market segment.

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16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Perhaps next gen Edge/Nautilus adopts the Chinese 3-row Edge back end as better alignment with "SUV" buyer
expectations, especially  now that Explorer has much longer wheelbase..

 

This is a very good point as originally, Ford wanted to move Corsair to Mexico so clearly wanting as much
flexibility as possible. You can tell that Ford wants to use flex plants to be able to switch and change the
product mix as needed, there are so many great products coming that you have to wonder how Ford will
make it all fit. I don't think it's pick and stick anymore, they need plenty of variety to follow buyer interest.....

Amazing that vehicles like Ecosport and Fiesta have seen an up turn in sales, maybe it's same situation
as Fusion, a mix of lower trim mix and Incentives or simply buyers moving to the smaller Fords now
that Escape is gone
.....which reminds me that's another possible re-entry product at later date, although
a few years back, Focus Active did not clinic well, maybe it's a good  niche in certain states or regions?

I hope not.  I think Edge/Nautilus should stay as-is form wise, and that the 2 row sporty utility is what helps them do well.  If they want to add the 3 row model in addition to the traditional 2 row one, go for it, but don't outright replace it.

Escape isn't gone?

15 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I dunno, a fresh Equinox has no trouble selling upwards of 38K-40K in a good month even with Terrain knocking out 8,000
Remember that Escape is that old, it came to the US as a re-packaged 2008 Kuga, a fresh Escape will do better,
Ford is also looking to have premium pricing on Bronco Scout, I heard starting at late 20s or early 30s.

Equinox doesn't have a companion Chevy model sitting in the same showroom though.

Scout will likely take some Escape sales.

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11 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Currently Mondeo is supplied as a station wagon and a 5-door hatchback, I wonder if Ford could do a clever merge
of the two and come up with a crossover that s versatile but doesn't look as clumsy as a jacked u stationwagon
although, Mondeo S/W jacked up may not be so bad...

2019-Ford-Mondeo-Wagon-Hybrid-side.jpg

Very nice...Mondeo wagon/estate is far better looking than any crossover. Jacking it up will take away that advantage, as well as Mondeo's superior ride and handling.

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6 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Very nice...Mondeo wagon/estate is far better looking than any crossover. Jacking it up will take away that advantage, as well as Mondeo's superior ride and handling.

And do you know how many will sell in the US each month, dozens, maybe. There're lots of nice looking looking wagons around the world, but very few sell well in the US.  

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On 7/16/2019 at 8:24 AM, Anthony said:

Subarus sell because they are Subarus, not because of looks or versatility. 

Yes sir. Subaru is the only mainstream automaker that engineers cars with horizontally opposed piston engines and with a symmetrical all wheel drive system. Those two things give Subaru vehicles technical advantages that can't be found on any other new cars under $50k.

Subaru customers appreciate getting that technical superiority at a "value" price. That's why Subaru has the highest customer loyalty in the industry according to J.D. Power.

173b.jpg

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24 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Yes sir. Subaru is the only mainstream automaker that engineers cars with horizontally opposed piston engines and with a symmetrical all wheel drive system. Those two things give Subaru vehicles technical advantages that can't be found on any other new cars under $50k.

Subaru customers appreciate getting that technical superiority at a "value" price. That's why Subaru has the highest customer loyalty in the industry according to J.D. Power.

I bet the vast majority of the stereotypical granola eating hippy dippy Subaru owner has no freaking clue as to what that is. 

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39 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

I bet the vast majority of the stereotypical granola eating hippy dippy Subaru owner has no freaking clue as to what that is. 

100% agree

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When was the last time you saw a wagon on the road that wasn’t a Subaru? Seems like a weird market to chase. 

 

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2 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

When was the last time you saw a wagon on the road that wasn’t a Subaru? Seems like a weird market to chase. 

 

HRG

Buick Regal TourX.JPG

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AutoWeek has the story.

https://autoweek.com/article/rumormill/next-ford-fusion-will-be-wagon-style-crossover-report-says

I told you all! JK, actually I remember remarks from Ford presentations about a "white space" vehicle. Subaru sales have been going up for years, and are not necessarily "a cult" as some dismiss. Cant just sit idly by and let buyers slip away.

And, sure Euro wagon purists will complain about ride height and demand "sweet handling", but average Americans* will NOT buy a "car guy purist wagon", sorry but face reality. VW killed off the Golf wagons in US, that some "thought would be hits", so bye, bye.

*Saying "I refuse to drive a station wagon", even if an Outback is really one with higher ride.

 

 

 

Edited by 630land

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15 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

When was the last time you saw a wagon on the road that wasn’t a Subaru? Seems like a weird market to chase. 

 

In Evanston just north of Chicago, I see a ton of Suburu, Volvo, and Mercedes wagons. Now, mind you this area is pretty wealthy and  liberal. It is a university town as well. Not sure what it means as marketing demographics isn't my specialty. 

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23 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

When was the last time you saw a wagon on the road that wasn’t a Subaru? Seems like a weird market to chase. 

 

The roads here in the NW are thick with Subarus...but also Flexes, and Volvo wagons.

As Ford as barely offered wagons beyond the Flex since the old Taurus/Sable wagon were killed over a decade ago...and the CMAX is fugly...that distorts the numbers, somewhat.

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Just don't call the next Fusion CUV a "wagon" or Mr. and Mrs. Urbanite/Suburbanite will run away.

Edited by 630land

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36 minutes ago, 630land said:

 

I told you all! JK, actually I remember remarks from Ford presentations about a "white space" vehicle. Subaru sales have been going up for years, and are not necessarily "a cult" as some dismiss. Cant just sit idly by and let buyers slip away.

But also Subaru has been adding models over the years too...they sold about 300K units between 5 different models last year.

This is more about slotting vehicles into niches that they can make more money in vs dealing with 6 different makers in the mid-size market and competing in shrinking market with shrinking profits. 

 

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56 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

In Evanston just north of Chicago, I see a ton of Suburu, Volvo, and Mercedes wagons. Now, mind you this area is pretty wealthy and  liberal. It is a university town as well. Not sure what it means as marketing demographics isn't my specialty. 

Means that Evanston has a lot of intelligent, discerning automotive consumers who know a good thing when they see it.

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Can anyone find the actual sales numbers for wagons? I find several articles that reference about 200k per year in the US, but I can’t find any actual stats. I’d assume that the majority of those are Subaru which would make the remaining market of wagons pretty small. There’s a jalopnik article from earlier this year saying the wagon market has grown 29% from 2013, however a commenter mentioned that that growth was because of the outback and that all other wagon growth had actually decreased by 28%. (Cant find the data to verify if that is true or not) I’ve also read that the Volvo wagons were going to factory order only and bmw 3 series wagon is no longer being produced for the US.

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24 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Can anyone find the actual sales numbers for wagons? I find several articles that reference about 200k per year in the US, but I can’t find any actual stats. I’d assume that the majority of those are Subaru which would make the remaining market of wagons pretty small. There’s a jalopnik article from earlier this year saying the wagon market has grown 29% from 2013, however a commenter mentioned that that growth was because of the outback and that all other wagon growth had actually decreased by 28%. (Cant find the data to verify if that is true or not) I’ve also read that the Volvo wagons were going to factory order only and bmw 3 series wagon is no longer being produced for the US.

You can't trust registration numbers since a lot of states classify SUVs as station wagons so that's not a great place to start 

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Well, the Flex has been selling at or just above 2000 per month forever...and with basically NO promotion from FoMoCo.

Throw in the Outbacks, the Buick thing, plus the rogue Benz/Volvo/etc models...200K may be possible.

It's hard to think that there's not enough market for a capacious vehicle that's not carrying the extra weight of CUV bodywork....

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