AGR Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, 02MustangGT said: Slightly premature don’t you think? Ford has zero EV’s on the road that are competitive in any segment. The release of a single EV in 2020 will take years to gain any ground on what Tesla has already accomplished (vehicles sold plus charging network and cult-like following). I work with several Tesla owners, so I get to witness the fanfare on a daily basis. That kind of loyalty and belief is not going to change anytime soon (regardless if Ford releases a superior product, which is quite likely). That, and the charging speeds stated in the Ford press release seem to be aimed at the Superchargers that Tesla is phasing out. The new ones charge at the rate of 75 miles in 5 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 5 hours ago, akirby said: They should make them a community standard with a particular vendor so they all look the same and meet the neighborhood architectural standards. This will probably become a requirement that HOAs cannot disallow like satellite dishes. Already the law in California. An HOA can not prevent an owner from putting in his own home charger. I suspect soon there will have to be a minimum number in all new construction - even for apartments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 16 hours ago, sullynd said: This isn’t Fords network. They’re creating a membership which allows access to multiple providers through one Ford account. Great idea, but not really the same as Tesla’s network. Who cares if it's a Ford branded charging station? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordowner Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Will these charging stations have different plugs for the brands? Or are have car manufacturers settled on a standard plug. As I understand it Telsas are unique and thus only Telsas can charge at Telsa charging stations? Will plugs change over time as they have with Androids and Iphones? That would be a bigger issue with cars since unlike phones most cars aren't traded in every 1 or 2 years. Bottom line, I don't see how an Electric Mustang wouldn't be a superior performance option to combustion engines especially in urban and suburban areas where acceleration, breaking and handling (turning) comprise more of the driving time. A great charging network addresses the main drawback to electric cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, Fordowner said: Will these charging stations have different plugs for the brands? Or are have car manufacturers settled on a standard plug. As I understand it Telsas are unique and thus only Telsas can charge at Telsa charging stations? Will plugs change over time as they have with Androids and Iphones? That would be a bigger issue with cars since unlike phones most cars aren't traded in every 1 or 2 years. Bottom line, I don't see how an Electric Mustang wouldn't be a superior performance option to combustion engines especially in urban and suburban areas where acceleration, breaking and handling (turning) comprise more of the driving time. A great charging network addresses the main drawback to electric cars. I think I've read here that most non-Tesla chargers have multiple adapters for different plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Fordowner said: Will these charging stations have different plugs for the brands? Or are have car manufacturers settled on a standard plug. As I understand it Telsas are unique and thus only Telsas can charge at Telsa charging stations? Will plugs change over time as they have with Androids and Iphones? That would be a bigger issue with cars since unlike phones most cars aren't traded in every 1 or 2 years. Bottom line, I don't see how an Electric Mustang wouldn't be a superior performance option to combustion engines especially in urban and suburban areas where acceleration, breaking and handling (turning) comprise more of the driving time. A great charging network addresses the main drawback to electric cars. Yes, there is more than one charger cable with different ends on a charging tower. Usually a CHAdeMO and CCS. With the proper adaptor, you can charge at a Tesla charger but NOT at a Supercharger. Want to be more confused? The Model 3 in Europe is CCS, not Tesla. Edited October 18, 2019 by MY93SHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/10/17/why-ford-just-announced-a-huge-ev-charging-network.aspx "Tesla's Supercharger network has helped overcome many buyers' concerns about the hassles of recharging. I think Ford's goal here is to be able to tell its customers that its own recharging network is also extensive and simple to use -- and to encourage home charging by making installation of home chargers as simple as possible as well. It's a very Ford approach, and -- assuming that it all works seamlessly -- it should help persuade buyers to try its new BEVs. That's promising news for Ford investors who might be concerned about the company's ability to compete with Tesla and other new EV entrants." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the closest charging station from me is going to be farther away than the driving range of most EV's. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 8 hours ago, rmc523 said: Who cares if it's a Ford branded charging station? it’s not. This is only about the membership. The charging station will be Electrify America, Greenlots, and others. Many of these are already existing stations. They will not be Ford branded. it’s kind of like MasterCard claiming BP, Shell, and Exxon as their own because you can use their card there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 3 hours ago, blksn8k2 said: I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the closest charging station from me is going to be farther away than the driving range of most EV's. LOL. West-Central PA, right? It doesn't appear to be as bad as you think. https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 15 hours ago, blksn8k2 said: I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the closest charging station from me is going to be farther away than the driving range of most EV's. LOL. The nearest charging spot for you would be your own home, which is where most people would do virtually all of their charging overnight. The charging stations come into play on longer road trips or if your job requires you to be driving the vehicle regularly several hundred miles a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 On 10/18/2019 at 7:08 PM, sullynd said: it’s not. This is only about the membership. The charging station will be Electrify America, Greenlots, and others. Many of these are already existing stations. They will not be Ford branded. it’s kind of like MasterCard claiming BP, Shell, and Exxon as their own because you can use their card there. That's my point. I'm saying who cares who's name is on the charger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, rmc523 said: That's my point. I'm saying who cares who's name is on the charger? The Teslaphiles 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 7 hours ago, rmc523 said: That's my point. I'm saying who cares who's name is on the charger? Gotcha. I thought you meant who cares if it’s Electrify America if the charger says Ford on it. Nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 8 hours ago, akirby said: The Teslaphiles Not really. Just watched a video of people unplugging Teslas at non-Tesla chargers. Someone sells a widget to stop people from doing that. I'll see if I can find it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1ymJ1WtiBg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 31 minutes ago, MY93SHO said: Not really. Just watched a video of people unplugging Teslas at non-Tesla chargers. Someone sells a widget to stop people from doing that. I'll see if I can find it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1ymJ1WtiBg That's pretty damn funny. Never knew such an underground existed,,,,, HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) On 10/17/2019 at 6:12 PM, sullynd said: This isn’t Fords network. They’re creating a membership which allows access to multiple providers through one Ford account. Great idea, but not really the same as Tesla’s network. Thank you sullynd sir. As you said, creating a user friendly, integrated experience for charging BEVs via FordPass is the biggest deal in Ford's announcement. The partnership with Amazon Home Services to sell and install home 240V charging points to Ford customers is also smart. Anything that helps accelerate the inevitable transition to full electric vehicles is good, and Ford's initiatives are welcome. The two EV charging networks Mike Levine mentioned in his tweet message, Greenlots and Electrify America, have a long way to go however before they come close to the number of DC Fast Charging stations that Tesla has with its Supercharger network. Most of 12,000+ EV charging station locations mentioned in the Ford press release are Level 2, not DC Fast Charging. Edited October 22, 2019 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) By far and away the biggest issue for the MachE is the charging network, it's at a MASSIVE disadvantage compared to Tesla. This partnership sounds great, but it really does little to change the reality that these charing stations are outdated for something like the MachE where DC Fast Charging is a necessity for road trips. So you couldn't even get across the state of Michigan with these networks today, let alone across multiple states or the country like you can with a Tesla. The quality of the network is very different than what Tesla can offer. And ultimately Ford is completely at the mercy of the marketplace to build the network it will need. Eventually it will sort itself out with enough customers, but it's going to take many years. There's a reason Ford emphasizes home charging and why they are only interested in long-range EVs or Hybrids. But ultimately I think we'll get to a point where Tesla loses the advantage entirely and the network becomes more robust than theirs. But that's a long way off. Ultimately I think if you want to buy into EVs in the next 5 years, Tesla is still going to be your best bet. I'm not sure at what point that changes, but I don't think the Mach E will change that so I would keep expectations reasonable. Edited October 22, 2019 by Assimilator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 FWIW, Mike Levine hinted on Twitter that they had at least 1 more partnership like this to announce at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Assimilator said: By far and away the biggest issue for the MachE is the charging network, it's at a MASSIVE disadvantage compared to Tesla. This partnership sounds great, but it really does little to change the reality that these charing stations are outdated for something like the MachE where DC Fast Charging is a necessity for road trips. So you couldn't even get across the state of Michigan with these networks today, let alone across multiple states or the country like you can with a Tesla. The quality of the network is very different than what Tesla can offer. And ultimately Ford is completely at the mercy of the marketplace to build the network it will need. Eventually it will sort itself out with enough customers, but it's going to take many years. There's a reason Ford emphasizes home charging and why they are only interested in long-range EVs or Hybrids. But ultimately I think we'll get to a point where Tesla loses the advantage entirely and the network becomes more robust than theirs. But that's a long way off. Ultimately I think if you want to buy into EVs in the next 5 years, Tesla is still going to be your best bet. I'm not sure at what point that changes, but I don't think the Mach E will change that so I would keep expectations reasonable. I don't see people buying these for long road trips. They'll be daily drivers or 2nd/3rd vehicles that will be charged at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Part of Tesla's success, particularly now, is that they have the infrastructure to eliminate the biggest barriers to BEV adoption. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 I don’t know if this has contemplated, but, if a dealer ship wants to get on the selling electrical vehicles from Ford, they need to install public charging stations. How big a network would that create? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 16 hours ago, pictor said: I don’t know if this has contemplated, but, if a dealer ship wants to get on the selling electrical vehicles from Ford, they need to install public charging stations. How big a network would that create? I think many dealers had added chargers when the Focus electric and C-Max/Fusion Energis debuted. I've said that for a while, Ford could just install chargers at dealers and "instantly" have a massive charging network much larger than Tesla's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I think many dealers had added chargers when the Focus electric and C-Max/Fusion Energis debuted. I've said that for a while, Ford could just install chargers at dealers and "instantly" have a massive charging network much larger than Tesla's. The problem may be that they install them indoors, or the dealership has locked gates restricting access. They need to be accessible 24-7. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I think many dealers had added chargers when the Focus electric and C-Max/Fusion Energis debuted. I've said that for a while, Ford could just install chargers at dealers and "instantly" have a massive charging network much larger than Tesla's. Yes, but what are you doing to do at a dealership while waiting for your vehicle to charge? Then again I guess Tesla's chargers have the same issue unless they happen to be co-located with shopping, food or entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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