Jump to content





Bob Rosadini

Retained Customers When Ford Cars Are Gone.

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Compared to comparably sized and equipped crossovers, sedans are not only cheaper in terms of initial purchase price but they drive better, are more fuel efficient, and are more stylish. 

 

The thing is that the average consumer doesn't really care about that. If they really cared about those things sedans would sell better. In grand scheme of things autos are "regressing" back to their original form in the 1930-1940 and the sedan market was just Detroit pushing a form factor for 40 years or so. 

Looking at the small CUV market, which is now more or less the replacement for mid size sedan market, they get just as good MPGs as a sedan and once you hit 20-25 MPG, your overall savings in gas yearly is minuscule. If you need to penny pinch to save 20 bucks a year in gas, your better off keeping your old car and just paying the extra in gas because its cheaper then a new car payment and gas to fill it up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Yes ma'am GearheadGrrrl,

 

Ummm, GearheadGrrl is a guy...

 

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Sedans are also popular because they’re cheaper than wagons or crossovers,  

 

7 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Compared to comparably sized and equipped crossovers, sedans are not only cheaper in terms of initial purchase price but they drive better, are more fuel efficient, and are more stylish. 

 

Both a moot points when Maverick hits the market that is both inexpensive and fuel efficient. Maverick is basically an Escape with the rear section of roof removed and Escape is basically a tall Focus...so, Maverick is a tall Focus with an exposed trunk...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Looking at the small CUV market, which is now more or less the replacement for mid size sedan market, they get just as good MPGs as a sedan and once you hit 20-25 MPG, your overall savings in gas yearly is minuscule. If you need to penny pinch to save 20 bucks a year in gas, your better off keeping your old car and just paying the extra in gas because its cheaper then a new car payment and gas to fill it up. 

 

Crossovers will always get worse fuel economy than a comparable sedan with the same powertrain. Examples.

  • Toyota Camry LE Hybrid, 52 MPG combined in EPA testing
  • Toyota RAV4 LE Hybrid, 40 MPG 
  • Toyota Highlander LE Hybrid, 36 MPG

However, your point about savings in fuel expenditures becoming smaller above 25 MPG is a good one. MPG is not a linear measurement.

 

mpg-vs-gpm-fuel-efficiency.png

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 7/22/2021 at 10:48 PM, twintornados said:

Both a moot points when Maverick hits the market that is both inexpensive and fuel efficient. Maverick is basically an Escape with the rear section of roof removed and Escape is basically a tall Focus...so, Maverick is a tall Focus with an exposed trunk...

A $20k hybrid pickup makes for a compelling case, it’s the perfect addition below Ranger

and adds choice that buyers cannot get with GM or Stellantis or Toyota, even the Ridgeline

Is more than double that price.

Edited by jpd80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/21/2021 at 4:50 PM, rperez817 said:

 

Yes ma'am GearheadGrrrl, IHS Markit data confirms that. Black new car buyers who already own a sedan are much more likely to choose another sedan for their next car compared to new car buyers overall. Hispanic buyers also have a higher than average loyalty to sedans, though not as much as blacks.

 

unbenannt.png

 

I see the same downward trend in sedan ownership in minority groups as overall US population. Less than half of sedan owners come back for a new one - except for African Americans, but only barely. That is a terrible stat if you think about it. If only 45% of your buyer come back for another one. 55% goes for a different body style. 

 

The recent uptick in Asian Americans buying sedan is entirely driven by Tesla. EV sedan is the only part of the sedan market that is growing (which is easy to do from a base of 0). 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bzcat said:

The recent uptick in Asian Americans buying sedan is entirely driven by Tesla. EV sedan is the only part of the sedan market that is growing (which is easy to do from a base of 0). 

 

Very interesting. Asian American new car buyers in the U.S. have traditionally shunned vehicles from U.S. automakers in general. For example, in the DFW Metroplex, the #1 and #2 best selling new cars/light trucks for retail consumers are Ford F-Series and Chevrolet Silverado. But for Asian or Oriental car buyers in the Metroplex, those 2 models weren't even in the top 25, nor were any other GM or Ford models.

 

The fact that Tesla has been successful in attracting Asian or Oriental buyers to their sedans bodes well for future BEV sedans from GM and Ford.

Edited by rperez817

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

I see the same downward trend in sedan ownership in minority groups as overall US population. Less than half of sedan owners come back for a new one - except for African Americans, but only barely. That is a terrible stat if you think about it. If only 45% of your buyer come back for another one. 55% goes for a different body style. 

 

The recent uptick in Asian Americans buying sedan is entirely driven by Tesla. EV sedan is the only part of the sedan market that is growing (which is easy to do from a base of 0). 

 

 

It is a terrible stat. You know what’s even worse? When 45% of your sedan buyers leave you for another brand when its time to buy a new car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Trader 10 said:

You know what’s even worse? When 45% of your sedan buyers leave you for another brand when its time to buy a new car.

 

The 54% owner loyalty percentage for the Ford brand in 2021 J.D. Power Automotive Brand Loyalty Study is for its entire lineup of cars and light trucks. Brand loyalty among Ford sedan owners is probably much lower.

 

2021123b.JPG?itok=kbwC8Vmj

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

It is a terrible stat. You know what’s even worse? When 45% of your sedan buyers leave you for another brand when its time to buy a new car.


Unless those 150,000 sedan sales get replaced by 200,000+ Maverick and Bronco Sport sales at orders of magnitude more profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, akirby said:


Unless those 150,000 sedan sales get replaced by 200,000+ Maverick and Bronco Sport sales at orders of magnitude more profit.

No reason Ford cant do both. You keep trying to compare potential profit of Ford’s well past their prime sedans with brand new designs which is apples to oranges. You don’t think a class leading C2 Fusion wouldn’t have higher ATP’s than Maverick (and probably Bronco Sport also)?  It really doesn’t matter I suppose with no new Fusion coming. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

No reason Ford cant do both. You keep trying to compare potential profit of Ford’s well past their prime sedans with brand new designs which is apples to oranges. You don’t think a class leading C2 Fusion wouldn’t have higher ATP’s than Maverick (and probably Bronco Sport also)?  It really doesn’t matter I suppose with no new Fusion coming. 

Where is the mysterious fusion active wagon that’s supposed to be coming??? Haven’t heard shit about it in months. I thought that was coming to North America as the fusion replacement?? I thought this so call white space vehicle was supposed to replace the fusion.

Edited by Oacjay98

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Where is the mysterious fusion active wagon that’s supposed to be coming??? Haven’t heard shit about it in months. I thought that was coming to North America as the fusion replacement?? I thought this so call white space vehicle was supposed to replace the fusion.

 I *think* the white space vehicle was probably the Maverick. I wouldn't be surprised if the Fusion Active has morphed into an EV something or other in the future product plan. If it's not a truck (or truck derived ala Bronco) or Mustang, it's hard to see Ford putting investment into gas powered new product for NA. Bronco Sport makes sense because it's part of the 'Bronco family', not sure there are other exceptions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Ford made it a no choice decision to 1) kill San Louis Potosi and 2) switch all car plants to trucks and utilities 

Mustang being the only exception to the change. The original plan was to import Focus and possibly Mondeo

from China but that didn’t pan out, neither did the Focus Active which bombed in US clinics……

 

Maybe Ford  just wants  to maximise sales of trucks and utilities but a few imported

 hybrid cars would add some nice sales…

Edited by jpd80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

No reason Ford cant do both. You keep trying to compare potential profit of Ford’s well past their prime sedans with brand new designs which is apples to oranges. You don’t think a class leading C2 Fusion wouldn’t have higher ATP’s than Maverick (and probably Bronco Sport also)?  It really doesn’t matter I suppose with no new Fusion coming. 


There are billions of reasons ($$j why they don’t want to do both.  It would require a dedicated plant plus engineering, testing, certification and other people resources.  That’s a lot of fixed overhead and additional people or you have to cancel new BEV projects.  

 

A new C2 Fusion would have better profit but consider the competition (especially the Koreans) vs the competition for Maverick and Bronco Sport which are almost in a class by themselves.   Fusion would be in price wars with Sonata and Camry and still require big rebates even with a new design.

 

Maverick and Bronco Sport will sell with little to no incentives for several years because they’re unique desirable vehicles.  So will the new BEVs.

 

Its simply a matter of investing limited resources on vehicles with the highest long term ROI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 I *think* the white space vehicle was probably the Maverick. I wouldn't be surprised if the Fusion Active has morphed into an EV something or other in the future product plan. If it's not a truck (or truck derived ala Bronco) or Mustang, it's hard to see Ford putting investment into gas powered new product for NA. Bronco Sport makes sense because it's part of the 'Bronco family', not sure there are other exceptions.

I would have to agree with you now that I think of it. The maverick is similar price range as the fusion was and has more functionality for the everyday grocery getter and Home Depot gardener. So it certainly does for the white space label. 

Edited by Oacjay98

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford made it a no choice decision to 1) kill San Louis Potosi and 2) switch all car plants to trucks and utilities 

Mustang being the only exception to the change. The original plan was to import Focus and possibly Mondeo

from China but that didn’t pan out, neither did the Focus Active which bombed in US clinics……

 

Maybe Ford  just wants  to maximise sales of trucks and utilities but a few imported

 hybrid cars would add some nice sales…

 

Obviously we'll never know, but I still think Focus Active bombed because of how they tried to present it.  They probably presented it to focus groups as this new "crossover" and thus people probably saw through that and therefore answered questions of it being a poor "crossover", whereas it'd have been a perfectly good hatchback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Obviously we'll never know, but I still think Focus Active bombed because of how they tried to present it.  They probably presented it to focus groups as this new "crossover" and thus people probably saw through that and therefore answered questions of it being a poor "crossover", whereas it'd have been a perfectly good hatchback.

 

Seems to me that many crossovers are starting to look more like station wagons. Aviator to my eyes has a station wagon look to it. For that matter, my Escape looks much like the Focus Active. They are all blending together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Seems to me that many crossovers are starting to look more like station wagons. Aviator to my eyes has a station wagon look to it. For that matter, my Escape looks much like the Focus Active. They are all blending together.

 There's a number of CUVs that aren't much taller, if at all, than my fusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Seems to me that many crossovers are starting to look more like station wagons. Aviator to my eyes has a station wagon look to it. For that matter, my Escape looks much like the Focus Active. They are all blending together.

That’s pretty much what they all are a bunch of CUV station wagon looking vehicles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

That’s pretty much what they all are a bunch of CUV station wagon looking vehicles. 

Car-like but different enough that it’s definitely not a car,

a refining of the utility traits to add some car feel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

That’s pretty much what they all are a bunch of CUV station wagon looking vehicles. 

 

That new Genesis G70 or whatever it's called is very popular and has very station wagon look. My neighbor just bought one and has Aviator vibe to it. Maybe it's the longer 3 row wheelbase that makes it look stationwagonish. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

That new Genesis G70 or whatever it's called is very popular and has very station wagon look. My neighbor just bought one and has Aviator vibe to it. Maybe it's the longer 3 row wheelbase that makes it look stationwagonish. 

 

You may be thinking of Genesis GV70.

800px-Genesis_GV70_JK1_white_(4)_(croppe

 

Genesis also offers a shooting brake version of G70 in Europe which is much better looking than GV70.

2022-genesis-g70-shooting-brake.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

You may be thinking of Genesis GV70.

800px-Genesis_GV70_JK1_white_(4)_(croppe

 

Genesis also offers a shooting brake version of G70 in Europe which is much better looking than GV70.

2022-genesis-g70-shooting-brake.jpg

 

 

I hate the greenhouse of the GV70

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Car-like but different enough that it’s definitely not a car,

a refining of the utility traits to add some car feel.

Very true. Speaking of wagons we started building edges again in bodybuild at OAC yesterday. We built Nautilus only past few weeks. We are looking at more downtime in August as we have thousands of edges sitting around the plant. Sorry to go off topic just giving you guys an update. We aren’t a priority as F-series have to processed first and all the newer vehicles have to be prioritized as you guys well know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our family gatherings used to look like a used Ford car lot with maybe 1 or 2 "other" makes.

 

A couple weeks ago; I walked out into the parking area and took a look around. The only 3 Ford's were my Mustang, son's Excursion, and my daughter's F-150. Everything else was Asian. Even my brother, who'd owned F series trucks since the 90's, bought a new Tundra.

 

Ford has pissed off a lot of former customers from either deleting products (cars) or building shit products.

 

Sad to see what the once great FoMoCo has become.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×