GM ups EV spending, says 40% of U.S. lineup electric by 2025

[Harley Lover]

This was the announcement from Barra that was to herald the increased $$ and moved up time lines for their EV products:

Quote

General Motors on Thursday said it is upping its spending on autonomous and electric vehicles by 35 percent to $27 billion and that 40 percent of its U.S. lineup will be electric by the end of 2025.

GM said it will move up the scheduled launches of some EVs and introduce at least 30 EVs globally through 2025, including 20 in North America. GM previously said it would spend $20 billion on EVs and autonomous technology by 2025 and have 20 EVs globally by 2023. More than half of the company's capital and nearly 60 percent of its product development team will be dedicated to EV and AV programs, GM said.

 

They are putting their money where their mouth is:

 

Quote

More than half of the company's capital and nearly 60 percent of its product development team will be dedicated to EV and AV programs, GM said.

They are also moving up significant products:

 

Quote

GM also moved up the production timelines for the GMC Hummer EV, three other GMC EVs, four Chevrolet EVs and four Cadillacs. The Lyriq, Cadillac's first full EV, will launch in the first quarter of 2022, nine months sooner than officials previously said.

It now plans to introduce a Chevy pickup 11 months sooner than planned, a Chevy compact crossover by 21 months and a second electric GMC pickup by 40 months.

The Hummer, which GM revealed last month, was developed in only 26 months. GM plans to adopt that quick development timeline as a standard across its portfolio.

 

And on the battery front:

Quote

GM also said the maximum range of its proprietary Ultium batteries has increased to 450 miles and that it would break ground on a battery innovation lab and manufacturing technology center for Ultium batteries next year.

 

I think Ford have most of these products covered with what is currently known (although in fewer numbers), and at least is entertaining the need to get into battery research and manufacturing. GM's needs are different from Ford, in that they have a much more significant presence in China, and will need to feed product and numbers in terms of EV's to that market.

 

My general sense is that the regulatory environment that will force EV's on the market is accelerating around the world, so my hope is that Ford will be prepared in its primary markets to address that issue as it plays out.

 

Does anyone know when the Chevy EV truck was originally scheduled to debut? Will this new timeline beat Ford to market?

 

https://www.autonews.com/future-product/gm-ups-ev-spending-says-40-us-lineup-electric-2025?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20201119&utm_content=hero-headline

Edited November 20, 2020 by Harley Lover

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

Does anyone know when the Chevy EV truck was originally scheduled to debut? Will this new timeline beat Ford to market?

 

In its 2019 Sustainability Report, GM indicated Chevy BEV pickup truck was expected to be in production "by 2025". The new timeline isn't specific on the release date for that model, but with GM's corporate wide commitment to BEV and how the Ultium system contributes to a much shorter development cycle (26 months in the case of GMC Hummer EV), there is a possibility that Chevy BEV pickup could be ready as soon as 2022. I think Ford's plan is to release BEV F-150 in late 2021 or early 2022, so the Chevy BEV pickup may not beat Ford to market.

Edited November 20, 2020 by rperez817

[snooter]

450 mile range is impressive (if legit - its gov't motors afterall)...when they get to 600 i may forever flip the finger to the oil companies.....however adding batteries and claiming new tech makes gm as irrelevant as they have been for last 50 years....tesla only game in town

[7Mary3]

GM's Ultium battery ain't no joke.

[twintornados]

11 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

GM's Ultium battery ain't no joke.

 

That is impressive tech for sure...

[rperez817]

17 hours ago, snooter said:

450 mile range is impressive (if legit - its gov't motors afterall)...when they get to 600 i may forever flip the finger to the oil companies.....however adding batteries and claiming new tech makes gm as irrelevant as they have been for last 50 years....tesla only game in town

 

Tesla is far ahead of the incumbent automakers with BEV currently. But it looks like GM has learned from the mistakes of its past electric vehicle efforts. This time, they are playing to win in an automotive industry that will be 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles. As Harley Lover said, GM is putting their money where there mouth is. I wouldn't count them out.

Edited November 21, 2020 by rperez817

[92merc]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Tesla is far ahead of the incumbent automakers with BEV currently. But it looks like GM has learned from the mistakes of its past electric vehicle efforts. This time, they are playing to win in an automotive industry that will be 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles. As Harley Lover said, GM is putting their money where there mouth is. I wouldn't count them out.

Tesla may have impressive battery technology, but when 3/4's of their vehicles are NOT recommended because of reliability problems, it has to give you pause.  I'm no CR fan, but geesh...

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/tech/tesla-model-y-reliability-consumer-reports/index.html

[rperez817]

9 minutes ago, 92merc said:

Tesla may have impressive battery technology, but when 3/4's of their vehicles are NOT recommended because of reliability problems, it has to give you pause.  I'm no CR fan, but geesh...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/tech/tesla-model-y-reliability-consumer-reports/index.html

 

As I mentioned in the thread about CR's reliability survey, not all consumers make reliability their #1 priority when choosing a particular car or truck model. Other factors such as technology, style, brand loyalty, preference for domestic automakers, etc., are important factors for many consumers. 

 

But GM does have the best reliability rating in the CR survey among the 3 major U.S. domestic automakers, and their current BEV model Chevy Bolt is rated much better than average in that survey. If they can keep that up with their new BEV models coming out in the next few years, it can be a competitive advantage for GM.

[sullynd]

I wonder if GM would have been better off with a new brand for EVs.  Tesla isn’t anything magic. GM has a chance to match or exceed their tech. Possibly with better quality and (yeah, I know, it’s GM) an interior worthy of their price.  I think the dealership model for service has advantages over Tesla’s approach, which has not scaled well. Tesla has advantages in their sales model and panache.  I don’t know how many Tesla buyers want a “Cadillac” no mater how good of a vehicle it is. (Or a Ford/Lincoln honestly)  Maybe kill Buick and launch Electra with the Saturn sales model or something. 

[rperez817]

3 minutes ago, sullynd said:

I don’t know how many Tesla buyers want a “Cadillac” no mater how good of a vehicle it is. (Or a Ford/Lincoln honestly) 

 

Probably a lot, if Cadillac's upcoming BEV models turn out to be as good or better than Tesla when it comes to technology, EV range, style, features, system integration, etc.

 

For many U.S. Model S customers especially in California, the vehicle was the first American designed, American built vehicle from a U.S. automaker they bought in a long time, if ever. With their upcoming BEV, Cadillac and Lincoln have the potential to draw customers that previously sworn off products from U.S. automakers, just like Tesla has successfully done.

[bzcat]

On 11/21/2020 at 9:49 AM, sullynd said:

I wonder if GM would have been better off with a new brand for EVs.  Tesla isn’t anything magic. GM has a chance to match or exceed their tech. Possibly with better quality and (yeah, I know, it’s GM) an interior worthy of their price.  I think the dealership model for service has advantages over Tesla’s approach, which has not scaled well. Tesla has advantages in their sales model and panache.  I don’t know how many Tesla buyers want a “Cadillac” no mater how good of a vehicle it is. (Or a Ford/Lincoln honestly)  Maybe kill Buick and launch Electra with the Saturn sales model or something. 

 

They brought back Hummer as a sub-brand for GMC. That's a smart way to do it - no investments for new dealer network needed.

 

Electra is a good name for a sub-brand of Buick EV... if marketed it like Denali and Hummer for GMC. But I wouldn't get rid of Buick. It was a liability when GM was trying to sell Buick cars and the sedan buyers did not consider the brand. But since Buick has become a SUV focused brand, it has shown that the Buick name is not an issue with SUV buyers. Getting rid of it wouldn't accomplish anything in my opinion. 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by bzcat

[Gurgeh]

5 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

They brought back Hummer as a sub-brand for GMC. That's a smart way to do it - no investments for new dealer network needed.

 

Electra is a good name for a sub-brand of Buick EV... if marketed it like Denali and Hummer for GMC. But I wouldn't get rid of Buick. It was a liability when GM was trying to sell Buick cars and the sedan buyers did not consider the brand. But since Buick has become a SUV focused brand, it has shown that the Buick name is not an issue with SUV buyers. Getting rid of it wouldn't accomplish anything in my opinion. 

 

Plus, the Buick brand is very big in China.

[rperez817]

Mary Barra announced today that General Motors "will no longer back the Trump administration’s effort to bar California from setting its own emissions rules in an ongoing court fight." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions-gm/gm-no-longer-backs-trump-effort-to-bar-california-emissions-rules-idUSKBN2832HF

 

Barra said she believes “the ambitious electrification goals of the president-elect, California, and General Motors are aligned, to address climate change by drastically reducing automobile emissions.”

In October 2019, GM joined Toyota Motor Corp, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV and other automakers in backing the Trump administration in its bid to bar California from setting its own fuel efficiency rules or zero-emission requirements for vehicles.

California and 22 other states and environmental groups challenged the Trump administration’s determination that federal law bars California from setting stiff tailpipe emission standards and zero-emission vehicle mandates.

 

 

[Harley Lover]

Let's keep politics out of this thread please.

[fuzzymoomoo]

27 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

Let's keep politics out of this thread please.

I don't think rperez's comment was political. It's actually quite relevant to this conversation and a huge motivating factor why all of a sudden they made this announcement. 

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I don't think rperez's comment was political. It's actually quite relevant to this conversation and a huge motivating factor why all of a sudden they made this announcement. 

 

Thank you fuzzymoomoo sir, you explained it perfectly. While the subject of the Reuters article has some political elements, it is primarily about how GM's new corporate wide strategy involving BEV (topic of this thread) impacted their outlook on regulatory stuff such as CARB's ability to set emissions standards and ZEV mandates.

 

With GM's announcement, all of the U.S. domestic automakers are now on the same side regarding this regulatory issue.  

[Harley Lover]

11 hours ago, rperez817 said:

With GM's announcement, all of the U.S. domestic automakers are now on the same side regarding this regulatory issue.  

 

And they are all in the wrong, legally. Alas, there won't be any litigation to prove that point.

[fuzzymoomoo]

5 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

And they are all in the wrong, legally. Alas, there won't be any litigation to prove that point.

The Trump administration fought it and lost. Even if to then average person it looks like it's illegal the judicial branch ruled it wasn't so it's a moot point. 

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, Harley Lover said:

Alas, there won't be any litigation to prove that point.

 

That's good. Now the American automakers and American government officials (federal, state, local) can and should focus on doing their part to achieve the goal of 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles in the U.S. as quickly as possible.

[rmc523]

Where's the rolleyes reaction when you need it?

[akirby]

32 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Where's the rolleyes reaction when you need it?

[rperez817]

On 11/23/2020 at 7:28 PM, rperez817 said:

With GM's announcement, all of the U.S. domestic automakers are now on the same side regarding this regulatory issue.  

 

Nissan announced yesterday they are joining GM, Ford, Tesla, Honda, BMW, VW, and Volvo Cars in supporting California's right to set emissions standards including ZEV mandates. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-12-04/nissan-trump-california-auto-emissions

[Footballfan]

On 11/24/2020 at 7:03 AM, Harley Lover said:

 

And they are all in the wrong, legally. Alas, there won't be any litigation to prove that point.

Don't worry.  A good lawyer will find any loophole to make a case. 

[Footballfan]

On 11/24/2020 at 8:53 AM, rperez817 said:

 

That's good. Now the American automakers and American government officials (federal, state, local) can and should focus on doing their part to achieve the goal of 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles in the U.S. as quickly as possible.

And socialism to follow.  There will be hell to pay if you shove something down peoples throats that few want such as autonomy and to a lesser extent Evs.  I'm hoping autonomy fails.  I value my freedom and the ability to walk in my garage, get behind the wheel in my clean car and go anywhere I want at any time in any condition. 

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

And socialism to follow.  There will be hell to pay if you shove something down peoples throats that few want such as autonomy and to a lesser extent Evs.  I'm hoping autonomy fails.  I value my freedom and the ability to walk in my garage, get behind the wheel in my clean car and go anywhere I want at any time in any condition. 

I love that word "socialism". America has been a mixed economy since 1936. It has been a welfare since the 70's. Many conservatives want take away "social" freedoms such as gay marriage and abortion. Some want to go back to segregated schools. Some want to outlaw labor unions. We are all a bunch of hypocrites that yell socialism everytime we don't like something. And liberals do it everytime they yell racism everytime they are feeling anxiety.