jpd80 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: Will it fit height wise? A car based pickup would…..Imagine Mustang like this Falcon Pickup, same but different Edited January 16, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Of course I could be spreading nonsense……..it’s probably too late in the game to add another product to FRAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 11 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said: Damn, still no shooting brake version,,,,, Hahaha, HRG That rear windshield needs to be raked much further forward for it to look good. I get more upright is more practical, but doesn't look good for a sporty car. 2 hours ago, akirby said: Will it fit height wise? I think he's referring to a Ranchero type product. 51 minutes ago, jpd80 said: A car based pickup would…..Imagine Mustang like this Falcon Pickup, same but different Eh, I think that ship has long sailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Eh, I think that ship has long sailed. Yeah, just havin’ fun, I think the truth is that we’re lucky to have another Mustang coupe. Anyone who thinks that Ford will spend beyond the minimum to keep FRAP open is dreaming. Edited January 16, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, jpd80 said: A better option might be a two door pickup, Ford could do that more easily and it would work in the existing Flat Rock facility Well we all know Ford is actually planning a mustang cargo van for flat rock Edited January 16, 2022 by DeluxeStang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 20 minutes ago, rmc523 said: That rear windshield needs to be raked much further forward for it to look good. I get more upright is more practical, but doesn't look good for a sporty car. I think he's referring to a Ranchero type product. Eh, I think that ship has long sailed. That's the issue with shooting brakes and hot hatches. People want them to look good, but also be practical. Touch line to talk at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: Of course I could be spreading nonsense……..it’s probably too late in the game to add another product to FRAP. 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Yeah, just havin’ fun, I think the truth is that we’re lucky to have another Mustang coupe. Anyone who thinks that Ford will spend beyond the minimum to keep FRAP open is dreaming. Not what I am hearing. Remember Ford was ready to drop a billion in this plant a few years ago until Hackett cancelled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Footballfan said: Not what I am hearing. Remember Ford was ready to drop a billion in this plant a few years ago until Hackett cancelled it. The important point is that they didn’t, keeping Flat Rock was an easy, low cost way out of a sticky situation for Ford, the big change in the past six months is Ford doubling down on Electric Vehicles so it’s likely that is now a priority over other planned engineering projects. Edited January 16, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 4 hours ago, jpd80 said: A better option might be a two door pickup, Ford could do that more easily and it would work in the existing Flat Rock facility I'm surprised Ford hadn't made a shooting brake 'wagon' version of the Mustang. I think it would have looked nice and be practical. I agree with the 2-door Mustang pickup variant idea that you had in the below-linked thread. I suggested it be called 'Mustang Ranchero'. I know it probably is too late in the process for Ford to do this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: The important point is that they didn’t, keeping Flat Rock was an easy, low cost way out of a sticky situation for Ford, the big change in the past six months is Ford doubling down on Electric Vehicles so it’s likely that is now a priority over other planned engineering projects. But remember there's a new sheriff in town. FRAP was supposed to be building EVs- first the Mach E then the EV Explorer/Navigator. The latter two do not have a home as yet. If Ford can blow a billion on a train station and $11 billion on two new plants, they certainly can sink money in FRAP. Edited January 16, 2022 by Footballfan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 10 hours ago, Footballfan said: But remember there's a new sheriff in town. FRAP was supposed to be building EVs- first the Mach E then the EV Explorer/Navigator. The latter two do not have a home as yet. If Ford can blow a billion on a train station and $11 billion on two new plants, they certainly can sink money in FRAP. I think the bigger issue with an EV plant is that you basically need to gut the plant and start over...except for the body stamping and paint shop. The EV expansion at Dearborn Truck is basically a new line. the Mach-E plant was shut down for a year or more for the conversion. The point I am making is that no other American plant is set up to handle the current Mustang. Shutting down FRAP for conversion to EVs would likely take over a year. Ford is not going to shut down Mustang production for a year while they wait to convert FRAP to EVs. What is more likely than that is Ford basically building a new EV line next to FRAP like Dearborn Truck. I won't hold my breath on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 30 minutes ago, ausrutherford said: I think the bigger issue with an EV plant is that you basically need to gut the plant and start over...except for the body stamping and paint shop. The EV expansion at Dearborn Truck is basically a new line. the Mach-E plant was shut down for a year or more for the conversion. The point I am making is that no other American plant is set up to handle the current Mustang. Shutting down FRAP for conversion to EVs would likely take over a year. Ford is not going to shut down Mustang production for a year while they wait to convert FRAP to EVs. What is more likely than that is Ford basically building a new EV line next to FRAP like Dearborn Truck. I won't hold my breath on that. I was wondering if they might move it to CAP. They should have capacity as the EV versions ramp up and they do share some parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, akirby said: I was wondering if they might move it to CAP. They should have capacity as the EV versions ramp up and they do share some parts. I doubt that. CAP seems like they’re struggling just to keep up with Explorer demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 2 hours ago, ausrutherford said: I think the bigger issue with an EV plant is that you basically need to gut the plant and start over...except for the body stamping and paint shop. The EV expansion at Dearborn Truck is basically a new line. the Mach-E plant was shut down for a year or more for the conversion. The point I am making is that no other American plant is set up to handle the current Mustang. Shutting down FRAP for conversion to EVs would likely take over a year. Ford is not going to shut down Mustang production for a year while they wait to convert FRAP to EVs. What is more likely than that is Ford basically building a new EV line next to FRAP like Dearborn Truck. I won't hold my breath on that. Keep in mind that you can engineer anything. The gm plant in Sping Hill for example is going to build the Lyric EV along with the XT 4 and 5. The new Jeep plant in Detroit is also supposed to be able to build EVs as well on the same line as the ICE Jeeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: CAP seems like they’re struggling just to keep up with Explorer demand. Not if the new EVs start to take sales. If not then I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisgb Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 20 hours ago, jpd80 said: A better option might be a two door pickup, Ford could do that more easily and it would work in the existing Flat Rock facility 17 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: Well we all know Ford is actually planning a mustang cargo van for flat rock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 4 hours ago, ausrutherford said: I think the bigger issue with an EV plant is that you basically need to gut the plant and start over...except for the body stamping and paint shop. The EV expansion at Dearborn Truck is basically a new line. the Mach-E plant was shut down for a year or more for the conversion. The point I am making is that no other American plant is set up to handle the current Mustang. Shutting down FRAP for conversion to EVs would likely take over a year. Ford is not going to shut down Mustang production for a year while they wait to convert FRAP to EVs. What is more likely than that is Ford basically building a new EV line next to FRAP like Dearborn Truck. I won't hold my breath on that. If they can gut the F-150 plant and rebuild it in 8 weeks, I'm sure they could gut and convert to EV in less than a year if they wanted to. I just think there was no real pressure to convert the plant from Fiesta to Mach E in super speed. Given it was their first real EV too, they probably wanted to make sure they got it right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: If they can gut the F-150 plant and rebuild it in 8 weeks, I'm sure they could gut and convert to EV in less than a year if they wanted to. I just think there was no real pressure to convert the plant from Fiesta to Mach E in super speed. Given it was their first real EV too, they probably wanted to make sure they got it right. True, maybe they took their time given it was the first conversion. 3 hours ago, Footballfan said: Keep in mind that you can engineer anything. The gm plant in Sping Hill for example is going to build the Lyric EV along with the XT 4 and 5. The new Jeep plant in Detroit is also supposed to be able to build EVs as well on the same line as the ICE Jeeps. I do not think that Ford would be interested in doing in a half ICE/half EV plant. If they are going to do it, they will convert the whole way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 3 hours ago, akirby said: Not if the new EVs start to take sales. If not then I agree. Or the cost/benefit favors the EV in the future. We've seen Ford be willing to let go of market segments (sedans and minivans), to favor more profitable ones. They are willing to take less overall sales if they make more profit on the ones that are left. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) On 1/16/2022 at 2:26 PM, Footballfan said: But remember there's a new sheriff in town. FRAP was supposed to be building EVs- first the Mach E then the EV Explorer/Navigator. The latter two do not have a home as yet. If Ford can blow a billion on a train station and $11 billion on two new plants, they certainly can sink money in FRAP. Sorry, I didn’t respond to your post as I wanted to step back and let other posters have a chance to discuss. Most have expressed the same ideas I have and In many instances articulated those point better than me, so thanks to all above What I will add is this, 1. If BEVs don’t go to CAP, that will ultimately impact that plant’s output and the number of shifts/people there. 2. If the BEVs are going to turn into medium/high volume product, they will need a dedicated plant 3. Oakville changeover to BEV times well for BEV Explorer/Aviator…. 4. and if 3 happens, could MEB based Ford BEVs move to another location like, say Louisville? Please note, the above is purely for discussion purposes and not as anything Ford is actually planning to do. Edited January 17, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 4:53 PM, fuzzymoomoo said: It has been suspected that S650 won't be a radical redesign but more of an evolution of S550 which tracks along with what they're doing with the rest of the lineup, mainly F-series. didn't someone high up stae the next Mustang iteration would be so sexy you would have to hold onto your hats?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Deanh said: didn't someone high up stae the next Mustang iteration would be so sexy you would have to hold onto your hats?.... Jim Farley said he wanted to make it a car people had as posters and wallpapers. I believe it was ExplorerDude who called the s650 gorgeous based on sketches he'd seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) Just speculating... I posted this before in the previous S650 thread. I think Ford is not yet ready to pull the plug on manual (it still does a decent business in Mustang) but I suspect all the auto will be hybrid. And Ford will charge a premium for "heritage" models like Bullitt or MACH 1 that will appeal to enthusiasts willing to pay the premium to keep V8+Manual+RWD in production. Just look at Porsche's business model with 911... 2.3 Ecoboost manual 2.3 Ecoboost hybrid auto (optional AWD?) 5.0 V8 hybrid auto (optional AWD?) 5.0 V8 manual Bullitt or MACH 1 Edited January 17, 2022 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 49 minutes ago, bzcat said: Just speculating... I posted this before in the previous S650 thread. I think Ford is not yet ready to pull the plug on manual (it still does a decent business in Mustang) but I suspect all the auto will be hybrid. And Ford will charge a premium for "heritage" models like Bullitt or MACH 1 that will appeal to enthusiasts willing to pay the premium to keep V8+Manual+RWD in production. Just look at Porsche's business model with 911... 2.3 Ecoboost manual 2.3 Ecoboost hybrid auto (optional AWD?) 5.0 V8 hybrid auto (optional AWD?) 5.0 V8 manual Bullitt or MACH 1 I think those powertrains are very close to what we'll get. I wonder if Ford will continue to offer two manuals, or offer tremecs in all manual mustangs. Hopefully it's the later. That being said, the 7 speed in the bronco was designed by the same company who makes the mt-82. Apparently that transmission could handle power outputs similar to what the 5.0 puts out, and is designed with hybrid implementation in mind. So we could see a tweaked version of that transmission, without the crawler gear obviously ;). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Looking at the tea leaves with the Mustang and Flat Rock, I'm wondering if Ford is just going to keep Flat Rock running the duration of the the next contract (I think the current contract is up next year) with just the Mustang and then move it to a new plant as BEV later this decade. It seems like a complete non-starter to introduce any "new" ICE or Hybrid products in the next 3 years and after 2025, everything will be full speed ahead as a BEV or replaced as a BEV. Current ICE products will get MCE updates that will take them as close to the 2030 date, at which time they'll move to a BEV architecture at that point. That means the Bronco/Ranger and C class products (Maverick, Transit Connect, Escape, Bronco Sport). I'm not really sure if its worth bringing in a new hybrid product like a Fusion Active or some sort of other C based product based on the Evos for only 5 years or so (if it comes out as a 2023/24MY) to North America, just to have it replaced by a BEV in 2030? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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