akirby Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 2 hours ago, ExplorerDude said: This right here is pretty spot on. From what I’m hearing through the grapevine, there are a number of key vehicle lines that will have redesigned ICE and BEV versions that will live side by side with each other for many years to come. A very smart move 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKosi Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, spudz64 said: The Fox Mustang was the first Mustang to not have any “Mustang” styling cues at all, but the 80’s were coming and everyone just wanted “new” at the time thinking back. It was the right car for the right time, and it was exciting when it came out. The Turbo option was a big thing at the time, seemed so “80’s” and futuristic! When they revitalized the 5.0 for 1982, it wasn’t something we saw coming, having expected less and less each year, performance had hit an all time low in everything (except for some Euro Turbo cars) From then on the Mustang was back and Fox legend began. Mustang II had all the cues but rolled up into a bit of a pudgy thing lol In my option, the current Mustang is the most beautiful and perfect one yet, will be hard to top it I say! (Owning a 2019 Bullitt I guess makes me biased lol) I have to disagree with you, 68-69 fast backs blow them all out of the water! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 3 hours ago, JX1 said: It was definitely before my time, considering I was born towards the end of its life, but I'll say this. In 1978, the Fox Body Mustang, was right car for the right time. It was a very attractive new automobile in 1978 USA and a breath of fresh air. It felt more 1980s than 1970s, compared to many things on the road I imagine. And prior to that achievement at Ford, I don't see how this could have ever been a "newer" feeling car in 1973 compared to the car below it. Felt so regressive, but the fuel crisis dictated the thinking of everyone. No disrespect here, but funny thing is the guy who designed the 1978 Bronco, also did the 1974 Mustang...? I don't think the Mustang II was all that bad. Not good, but not bad. I feel that because it was slow and Pinto based, it badly colors people's perception. If the Mustang II had real performance, it would change the math a bit. Of course the Landau roof is terrible too. I think the "Diamonds are Forever" 71-73 was the ugly duckling of the Mustang linage. It looked like they were trying to grow it into a personal coupe like the Thunderbird because the T-bird grew into a large car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 3 hours ago, JX1 said: It was definitely before my time, considering I was born towards the end of its life, but I'll say this. In 1978, the Fox Body Mustang, was right car for the right time. It was a very attractive new automobile in 1978 USA and a breath of fresh air. It felt more 1980s than 1970s, compared to many things on the road I imagine. And prior to that achievement at Ford, I don't see how this could have ever been a "newer" feeling car in 1973 compared to the car below it. Felt so regressive, but the fuel crisis dictated the thinking of everyone. No disrespect here, but funny thing is the guy who designed the 1978 Bronco, also did the 1974 Mustang...? I'm a fan of the Fox body Mustangs. Like you said, it was the right car for the times. But although we bash the Mustang II (and deservedly so), it was right for its time too, judging by the first year's sales. It had one of the highest production totals of any model year Mustang. Like most people, I'm not a huge fan of the Mustang II. But I'm also not a fan of the 1971-73 Mustorino you have pictured at the bottom. That should be its own generation instead of being included with the 1965-70 models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 3 hours ago, ExplorerDude said: This right here is pretty spot on. From what I’m hearing through the grapevine, there are a number of key vehicle lines that will have redesigned ICE and BEV versions that will live side by side with each other for many years to come. You're right. I don't recall Ford saying they were going to be 100 per cent BEV like GM, but a high percentage of products will by 2040. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyFord Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) I had two Mustang II’s. 4 cylinder 4 speed dogs. Uncle had a fastback 5.0, loved that. Then a Fairmont Futura straight 6 which I really liked. But this would work a Fox notch back sleeper with a 5.0 hidden in there. Edited January 19, 2022 by BarneyFord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, atomcat68 said: You're right. I don't recall Ford saying they were going to be 100 per cent BEV like GM, but a high percentage of products will by 2040. That's why BEV Escape and Explorer are moving to new plants. Ford plans to keep cranking out ICE versions at Louisville and Chicago until 2030. But the point that I made that started this sub-discussion is Ford is keeping ICE Mustang around until 2030 at Flat Rock. There is no plan to make a BEV Mustang coupe in parallel as far as we know. Edited January 20, 2022 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 4 hours ago, spudz64 said: In my option, the current Mustang is the most beautiful and perfect one yet, will be hard to top it I say! (Owning a 2019 Bullitt I guess makes me biased lol) I don't care for the refresh front end that the new model got. I prefer the 2015-2018 front end and the Shelby ones. Still not as horrible as the 99-04 Mustang though ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, bzcat said: That's why BEV Escape and Explorer are moving to new plants. Ford plans to keep cranking out ICE versions at Louisville and Chicago until 2030. But the point that I made that started this sub-discussion is Ford is keeping ICE Mustang around until 2030 at Flat Rock. There is no plan to make a BEV Mustang coupe in parallel as far as we know. The way I'm seeing it is that ICE powered products last till 2028 or or so. Just as an example, I'm not sure if they can get any more out of the current Escape ICE past 2028 or so-The platform would be at least 10-12 years at the time and I'm not sure what Ford has planned for the Escape powertrain wise going forward. I can see them dropping the 1.5L for a hybrid setup (yeah I know it costs more, but CAFE might drive it), but what can they really offer outside of styling changes (coming very soon) or a new/bigger screen inside to keep it fresh for another 6-8 years when you have a clean sheet BEV selling next to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudz64 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: I don't care for the refresh front end that the new model got. I prefer the 2015-2018 front end and the Shelby ones. Still not as horrible as the 99-04 Mustang though ? The refresh was subtle and I esp liked how they extended the top of the line from the headlamps out to the grille edge, it’s subtle yet adds a lot I think. I wasn’t a fan at first of the hood recontouring but have grown to appreciate it. The New Edge Mustangs (99-04) were a bit odd, I recall in spy shots thinking “oh it’s surely that’s not the real sheet metal!” Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: The way I'm seeing it is that ICE powered products last till 2028 or or so. Just as an example, I'm not sure if they can get any more out of the current Escape ICE past 2028 or so-The platform would be at least 10-12 years at the time and I'm not sure what Ford has planned for the Escape powertrain wise going forward. I can see them dropping the 1.5L for a hybrid setup (yeah I know it costs more, but CAFE might drive it), but what can they really offer outside of styling changes (coming very soon) or a new/bigger screen inside to keep it fresh for another 6-8 years when you have a clean sheet BEV selling next to it. Maverick offers hybrid as standard, 2.0 ecoboost optional. I can see those becoming the only powertrain options for escape and bronco sport. 2.0 turbo could morph into a powerboost configuration. Depending on battery cost, hybrids could be around for some time after 2030. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 5 hours ago, atomcat68 said: I don't think the Mustang II was all that bad. Not good, but not bad. I feel that because it was slow and Pinto based, it badly colors people's perception. If the Mustang II had real performance, it would change the math a bit. Of course the Landau roof is terrible too. I think the "Diamonds are Forever" 71-73 was the ugly duckling of the Mustang linage. It looked like they were trying to grow it into a personal coupe like the Thunderbird because the T-bird grew into a large car. In my opinion, it was the '71-'73 that began the mustangs downward spiral in terms of design that wouldn't recover for several decades. Just looks fat and heavy. That being said, I saw a modified version, that was done by Chip Fooses company, where they chopped off a lot of the front overhang, and that made the design look 10x better on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 21 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: In my opinion, it was the '71-'73 that began the mustangs downward spiral in terms of design that wouldn't recover for several decades. Just looks fat and heavy. That being said, I saw a modified version, that was done by Chip Fooses company, where they chopped off a lot of the front overhang, and that made the design look 10x better on its own. It was Bunky Knudsen who approved the 1971 Mustang. He had just come over from GM. The Mustang was too big , too heavy, and ungainly. Sales weren't anything special either. The Mustang II gets no respect, but at least the Mustang returned to its compact roots. Sales increased dramatically too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, mackinaw said: It was Bunky Knudsen who approved the 1971 Mustang. He had just come over from GM. The Mustang was too big , too heavy, and ungainly. Sales weren't anything special either. The Mustang II gets no respect, but at least the Mustang returned to its compact roots. Sales increased dramatically too. Ironically, Ford Australia had developed the two door Falcon Coupe at the same time, both were line ball on a lot of measurements but different in others, the Falcon had more usable rear seat and the rear guards wer bulged to take fat tires that Ford Australia never fitted. Edited January 20, 2022 by jpd80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: The way I'm seeing it is that ICE powered products last till 2028 or or so. Just as an example, I'm not sure if they can get any more out of the current Escape ICE past 2028 or so-The platform would be at least 10-12 years at the time and I'm not sure what Ford has planned for the Escape powertrain wise going forward. I can see them dropping the 1.5L for a hybrid setup (yeah I know it costs more, but CAFE might drive it), but what can they really offer outside of styling changes (coming very soon) or a new/bigger screen inside to keep it fresh for another 6-8 years when you have a clean sheet BEV selling next to it. Old platforms didn't stop Toyota from milking them forever. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 10 hours ago, bzcat said: That's why BEV Escape and Explorer are moving to new plants. Ford plans to keep cranking out ICE versions at Louisville and Chicago until 2030. But the point that I made that started this sub-discussion is Ford is keeping ICE Mustang around until 2030 at Flat Rock. There is no plan to make a BEV Mustang coupe in parallel as far as we know. Yes there is, there was an article in (I believe) Automotive News last year that said that the Mustang EV (coupe/convertible) would debut in 2028. It was discussed in a thread here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, AGR said: Yes there is, there was an article in (I believe) Automotive News last year that said that the Mustang EV (coupe/convertible) would debut in 2028. It was discussed in a thread here. Yeah but think about it, that discussion was first on Autoline Daily around twelve months ago talked about a BEV Mustang coupe with a December 2028 launch. Allowing a four year engineering development, that vehicle development wouldn’t begin until sometime in 2024, that’s still in the idea development stage… Edited January 20, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, AGR said: Yes there is, there was an article in (I believe) Automotive News last year that said that the Mustang EV (coupe/convertible) would debut in 2028. It was discussed in a thread here. That's the potential replacement after S650. There is no plan to make a EV Mustang to sell next to the S650 ICE one like Ford is planning to do with F-150, Escape, Explorer etc. And because S650 is delayed by a year, most likely it means the potential EV Mustang is similarly pushed back to 2030 or 2031. Edited January 20, 2022 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHoncho01 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 According to Automotive news, the S650 Mustang is going to have an approximate 8 year lifespan. Ford is rumored to be adding AWD in the near future. They will add a hybrid version in 2025. https://www.autonews.com/ford-mustang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 14 hours ago, rmc523 said: Old platforms didn't stop Toyota from milking them forever. The Camry platform in particular changed very little over several generations, even though they gave it new names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 hours ago, akirby said: The Camry platform in particular changed very little over several generations, even though they gave it new names. The more important thing to the customer was that they replaced the body just about like clockwork every 5-6 years, with some refreshes in between that keep it fresh in customer eyes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 19 minutes ago, rmc523 said: The more important thing to the customer was that they replaced the body just about like clockwork every 5-6 years, with some refreshes in between that keep it fresh in customer eyes. Correct, the latest Mondeo styling gives us a glimpse of what was needed way back in 2015 to compete with Toyota/Honda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Correct, the latest Mondeo styling gives us a glimpse of what was needed way back in 2015 to compete with Toyota/Honda Eh, as a refresh at that time, it didn't need to be that drastic, but it definitely needed to be more thorough than what we got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Eh, as a refresh at that time, it didn't need to be that drastic, but it definitely needed to be more thorough than what we got. Whatever was done for 2015/2016 as an update was planned back in 2013/2014, the world was very different then. I was thinking that the size and wheelbase could have been a game changer but unfortunately, Fusion/Mondeo were separate projects to CD4 Taurus/Continental Edited January 21, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Fusion was new for 2013. The “refresh” was 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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