UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[HotRunrGuy]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

Using extortion to get more money after negotiators reach agreement with the company should be illegal.

 

Are you kidding?  You want to take the right of approval out of the hands of the members?  At 73%, they've told the negotiators to go do a better job.

 

HRG

 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Are you kidding?  You want to take the right of approval out of the hands of the members?  At 73%, they've told the negotiators to go do a better job.

 

HRG

 

Good negotiators take into account what’s good and necessary for the company as well as what is fair for the workers.  Workers don’t always see the bigger picture and they aren’t always reasonable.

 

To wit the employees in New York who forced their small business to close due to impossible demands.

Edited October 10, 2023 by akirby

[twintornados]

14 hours ago, akirby said:

So quit and go find a better job if there is one.   Using extortion to get more money after negotiators reach agreement with the company should be illegal.

 

The rank and file turned down the "final" offer. It's not extortion. Negotiators reach agreements all the time, does not mean the rank and file must accept it. Here in NY - a recent meditated offer was presented to NYS correction officers, it too was voted down but here in NY, public employees are forbidden to strike due to the Taylor law which outlines fines if they do attempt to strike. So in the case of the correction officers, now they go back to the mediator and tell him, "Our members said no" and now they need to sweeten the offer. The only sad part of the correction officer story is of over 18,000 members, only 4500 voted. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by twintornados

[akirby]

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

The rank and file turned down the "final" offer. It's not extortion. Negotiators reach agreements all the time, does not mean the rank and file must accept it. Here in NY - a recent meditated offer was presented to NYS correction officers, it too was voted down but here in NY, public employees are forbidden to strike due to the Taylor law which outlines fines if they do attempt to strike. So in the case of the correction officers, now they go back to the mediator and tell him, "Our members said no" and now they need to sweeten the offer. The only sad part of the correction officer story is of over 18,000 members, only 4500 voted. 

If I walk into a business and tell the owner give me $1000 or I’ll stand outside and shut down your business, that’s extortion.  Just because somebody passed a law making it legal for employees doesn’t change the dynamics.  
 

They’re pricing themselves out of jobs, eventually.  You can’t compete with Tesla and the imports building batteries with labor that’s twice as expensive.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Just because somebody passed a law making it legal for employees doesn’t change the dynamics. 

 

Just because you are unable to understand the definition of extortion doesn't change the nature of the ongoing negotiations between UAW and employers, which are not only perfectly legal, but perfectly appropriate as well.

[akirby]

16 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Just because you are unable to understand the definition of extortion doesn't change the nature of the ongoing negotiations between UAW and employers, which are not only perfectly legal, but perfectly appropriate as well.

You need a dictionary.  Legalizing it doesn’t change the definition.  Give me more compensation or we’ll strike.  That is a threat.  Striking is force.

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

54 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Just because you are unable to understand the definition of extortion doesn't change the nature of the ongoing negotiations between UAW and employers, which are not only perfectly legal, but perfectly appropriate as well.

Legal or not doesn’t change what it is. Like it or not, a strike is a form of extortion, just as is as cop in an unmarked car hiding out of sight looking to trap speeders, or blackmail. 
 

The unmarked cop car example might be more legalized piracy but there’s not much of a difference in my mind. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[akirby]

We’re never going to agree on this.  Some of you think workers are entitled to more money if the company is making profits and that it’s ok to strike to force the company to give in to worker demands.  I and others like me think that the company is entitled to determine pay and benefits - period - and that you’re paid to perform a job and that job has a market value.  And f you don’t like it you go find a new job somewhere else.  That’s how it works for the 89% of workers not in a union job.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by akirby

[GearheadGrrrl]

Basicly this is two parties (union and company) negotiating a new contract to replace an expired contract. Within the law, either side has the right to withhold it's contributions or services until a new contract is agreed. Goes on in business all the time when supply contracts come due, leases expire, etc..

[akirby]

2 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Basicly this is two parties (union and company) negotiating a new contract to replace an expired contract. Within the law, either side has the right to withhold it's contributions or services until a new contract is agreed. Goes on in business all the time when supply contracts come due, leases expire, etc..

If it was a true negotiation then either side could walk away.  It’s like buying a car.

 

Seller says I want $20k.  Buyer says I’ll give you $15k.  Seller says $19k.  Buyer says $16k.  Seller says $18K take it or leave it.  Buyer can either pay $18K or walk away.  What the buyer can’t do is steal the keys and hold the car hostage and tell the seller he has to sell him the car for $16K or he won’t give it back.  And that is exactly what a strike does - it holds the factories hostage until their demands are met regardless of how outrageous the demands might be.  

[twintornados]

8 hours ago, akirby said:

If I walk into a business and tell the owner give me $1000 or I’ll stand outside and shut down your business, that’s extortion.  Just because somebody passed a law making it legal for employees doesn’t change the dynamics.  
 

They’re pricing themselves out of jobs, eventually.  You can’t compete with Tesla and the imports building batteries with labor that’s twice as expensive.

 

I get it, you're not a fan of unions. Thankfully, I am.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Oh god, this fucking strike is never going to end ?

 

https://fordauthority.com/2023/10/ford-may-not-follow-gm-with-uaw-recognition-at-ev-plants/

[GearheadGrrrl]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

If it was a true negotiation then either side could walk away.  It’s like buying a car.

 

Seller says I want $20k.  Buyer says I’ll give you $15k.  Seller says $19k.  Buyer says $16k.  Seller says $18K take it or leave it.  Buyer can either pay $18K or walk away.  What the buyer can’t do is steal the keys and hold the car hostage and tell the seller he has to sell him the car for $16K or he won’t give it back.  And that is exactly what a strike does - it holds the factories hostage until their demands are met regardless of how outrageous the demands might be.  

Nothing and nobody is being held hostage- The plants are not occupied by the strikers.

[akirby]

48 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Nothing and nobody is being held hostage- The plants are not occupied by the strikers.

How many Broncos and Rangers got built today?

[akirby]

Enough with the extortion talk.  We’re just going in circles.

[GearheadGrrrl]

41 minutes ago, akirby said:

How many Broncos and Rangers got built today?

Slavery ended in this country a century and a half ago and Michigan was always and is a free state, thus the workers can not be forced to build Broncos, Rangers, or anything else. Workers have to be paid and they have every right to cease working once the old contract expired and until a new contract has been negotiated that both parties agree too.

[silvrsvt]

13 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Slavery ended in this country a century and a half ago and Michigan was always and is a free state, thus the workers can not be forced to build Broncos, Rangers, or anything else. Workers have to be paid and they have every right to cease working once the old contract expired and until a new contract has been negotiated that both parties agree too.

 

They won't be forced to...they can be terminated and replaced by people who do want to work. 

 

The issue is the union leadership isn't allowing the workers to vote on a contract because they have a vendetta against the companies they are striking....all at the same time killing the golden goose that is providing for them and quite possibility damaging the country in s strategic sense because domestically owned companies won't exist to provide things for the country in a crisis 

[mackinaw]

Looks like Kentucky Truck could be the next factory to walk out.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2023/10/11/uaw-strike-day-27-talks-continue-following-end-of-gm-strike-in-canada/71141087007/

Edited October 11, 2023 by mackinaw

[GearheadGrrrl]

Yup, KTP just walked out... UAW gettin' serious with Ford!

[fuzzymoomoo]

The fact that the union’s response for comment to the Detroit news was “??‍♂️” says wonders about how stupid and petty this has gotten. 
 

I’m so over it I almost want to stop paying dues while I still have the option. 

[ice-capades]

UAW Hits Ford with a Surprise Strike of Nearly 9,000 Workers at the Kentucky Truck Plant

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2023/10/11/uaw-hits-ford-with-a-surprise-strike-of-9000-workers-in-kentucky/71148459007/

 

UAW President Shawn Fain called for a surprise strike of an estimated 9,000 workers late Wednesday with no warning at the Kentucky Truck Plant in Louisville, the Detroit Free Press confirmed.

 

Todd Dunn, president of UAW Local 862, told the Free Press at 6:10 p.m. he had been called into a meeting and was preparing to walk out the workers shortly. The work shift began at 6 p.m., he said.

 

“We’re meeting right now as we speak," he said. "We’re being chosen to be the next arm of leverage in an international strike. We’re being called on by our leadership. It’s time to stand up and do our duty.”

 

Dunn told the Free Press his 9,000 or so UAW members have long prepared for this moment and are ready to do what's required to help the strike succeed.

 

Thousands of workers left their jobs at 6:30 p.m., after union officials went around the plant at 6:25 p.m., shut off the line and told workers to walk out peacefully, a source inside the plant confirmed to the Free Press.

 

Kentucky Truck builds the Ford F-Series Super Duty, Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator. Super Duty is among the most profitable products the Dearborn automaker sells.

Edited October 11, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[Oac98]

13 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

UAW Hits Ford with a Surprise Strike of Nearly 9,000 Workers at the Kentucky Truck Plant

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2023/10/11/uaw-hits-ford-with-a-surprise-strike-of-9000-workers-in-kentucky/71148459007/

 

UAW President Shawn Fain called for a surprise strike of an estimated 9,000 workers late Wednesday with no warning at the Kentucky Truck Plant in Louisville, the Detroit Free Press confirmed.

 

Todd Dunn, president of UAW Local 862, told the Free Press at 6:10 p.m. he had been called into a meeting and was preparing to walk out the workers shortly. The work shift began at 6 p.m., he said.

 

“We’re meeting right now as we speak," he said. "We’re being chosen to be the next arm of leverage in an international strike. We’re being called on by our leadership. It’s time to stand up and do our duty.”

 

Dunn told the Free Press his 9,000 or so UAW members have long prepared for this moment and are ready to do what's required to help the strike succeed.

 

Thousands of workers left their jobs at 6:30 p.m., after union officials went around the plant at 6:25 p.m., shut off the line and told workers to walk out peacefully, a source inside the plant confirmed to the Free Press.

 

Kentucky Truck builds the Ford F-Series Super Duty, Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator. Super Duty is among the most profitable products the Dearborn automaker sells.

What a mess, I’m starting to wonder if the UAW is overplaying their hand.

[Harley Lover]

20 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

What a mess, I’m starting to wonder if the UAW is overplaying their hand.

 

With a sociopath like Fain, he doesn't believe that's possible. He lives in his little socialist echo chamber, and hears only what he wants to hear.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Harley Lover

[Oac98]

39 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

With a sociopath like Fain, he doesn't believe that's possible. He lives in his little socialist echo chamber, and hears only what he wants to hear.

At what point will people start getting frustrated with him? Maybe they won’t I suppose if he gets what he wants for the workforce. What is the fallout of all this? I believe in making gains but the demands seem skyhigh. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

19 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

At what point will people start getting frustrated with him? Maybe they won’t I suppose if he gets what he wants for the workforce. What is the fallout of all this? I believe in making gains but the demands seem skyhigh. 

The amount of comments I’ve seen on social media saying that it’s about time suggests the frustration is already mounting